00:38:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-minutes.html plh-home
00:50:20 <plh-home> trackbot, where am I?
00:50:20 <trackbot> Sorry, plh-home, I don't understand 'trackbot, where am I?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
00:50:30 <plh-home> action-6?
00:50:30 <trackbot> ACTION-6 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to address fragments versus entire pages as alternatives with HTML WG members -- due 2010-01-21 -- CLOSED
00:50:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/6
01:06:21 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
04:09:40 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
06:34:59 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
14:59:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:59:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-irc
14:59:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:59:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:20 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:20 <trackbot> Date: 06 May 2010
14:59:28 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
14:59:28 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
14:59:48 <janina> zakim, call janina
14:59:48 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
15:00:31 <janina> zakim, drop janina
15:00:31 <Zakim> sorry, janina, I don't know what conference this is
15:00:52 <Ben> Ben has joined #html-a11y
15:00:54 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
15:00:54 <Zakim> apparently WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM has ended, oedipus
15:00:54 <janina> zakim, this will be html-a11y
15:00:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ben, RRSAgent, janina, MikeSmith, Marco_Ranon, JF, kliehm, oedipus, MichaelC, Zakim, AllanJ, trackbot
15:00:57 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
15:01:06 <janina> zakim, call janina
15:01:06 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
15:01:16 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2119
15:01:16 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:01:24 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
15:01:26 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
15:01:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, Mike, Janina (muted), kliehm, Geoff_Freed, Michael_Cooper
15:01:34 <janina> zakim, drop janina
15:01:36 <Zakim> +Marco
15:01:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ben, RRSAgent, janina, MikeSmith, Marco_Ranon, JF, kliehm, oedipus, MichaelC, Zakim, AllanJ, trackbot
15:01:41 <janina> zakim, call janina
15:01:47 <Zakim> Janina is being disconnected
15:01:51 <Zakim> -Janina
15:01:53 <Zakim> +Matt
15:02:00 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
15:02:03 <Zakim> +Janina
15:02:55 <Zakim> -Janina
15:03:16 <Ben> zakim, code?
15:03:17 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka
15:03:25 <MikeSmith> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:03:41 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Ben
15:03:50 <dboudreau> dboudreau has joined #html-a11y
15:03:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, Mike, kliehm (muted), Geoff_Freed, Michael_Cooper, Marco, Matt, Janina_Sajka
15:04:16 <dboudreau> getting on phone asap, sorry for being late
15:04:28 <Zakim> +??P6
15:04:43 <Zakim> +Ben
15:04:52 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P6 is Cynthia_Shelly
15:04:52 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly; got it
15:05:06 <cyns> cyns has joined #html-a11y
15:05:16 <cyns> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:05:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, Mike, kliehm (muted), Geoff_Freed, Michael_Cooper, Marco, Matt, Janina_Sajka, Cynthia_Shelly, Ben
15:05:32 <cyns> Zakim, Cynthia_Shelly is me
15:05:32 <Zakim> +cyns; got it
15:05:51 <Zakim> +Denis_Boudreau
15:06:11 <dboudreau> merci greg
15:06:17 <Zakim> +Rich
15:06:22 <MikeSmith> agenda+ ARIA integration
15:06:36 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:06:38 <MikeSmith> agenda+ Media TF status
15:06:44 <MikeSmith> agenda+ Canvas status
15:07:11 <MikeSmith> agenda+ table summarry
15:07:23 <MikeSmith> s/summarry/summary/
15:07:52 <MikeSmith> agenda+ bugzilla a11y bug summaries
15:08:33 <MikeSmith> agenda+ review of open bugs
15:09:02 <mattmay> mattmay has joined #html-a11y
15:09:23 <mattmay> scribe: mattmay
15:10:05 <MikeSmith> zakim, take up item 12
15:10:05 <Zakim> agendum 12. "table summarry" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:10:19 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0054.html
15:10:41 <MichaelC> drop item 4
15:10:44 <MichaelC> drop item 5
15:10:47 <MichaelC> drop item 6
15:10:48 <MichaelC> drop item 7
15:10:50 <MichaelC> drop item 8
15:10:53 <mattmay> janina: Last week we discussed putting in a baseline on @summary for LC
15:11:51 <oedipus> hixie reply: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0055.html
15:11:57 <oedipus> JOC reply: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0065.html
15:12:03 <oedipus> GJR reply: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0069.html
15:12:08 <mattmay> janina: We wanted to come up with a human-generated solution to meet the deadline. We can start voting.
15:12:15 <MikeSmith> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0054.html CFC re ISSUE-32 "Table-Summary" (e-mail message from Janina)
15:12:22 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:12:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
15:12:58 <mhakkinen> mhakkinen has joined #html-a11y
15:14:07 <Zakim> +Mark_Hakkinen
15:14:20 <mattmay> MikeSmith: We have an objection from Ian. Nothing novel.
15:14:48 <janina> The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the change proposal at
15:14:48 <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009
15:14:48 <janina> to reinstate table summary as conforming and not +obsolete. We adopt
15:14:48 <janina> this recommendation even as we continue engineering work on possible
15:14:48 <janina> enhancements to table summary. However,+any enhancements we might
15:14:49 <janina> propose would only elaborate on this proposal and, most particularly,
15:14:51 <janina> would not remove the support +for author provided text as has been
15:14:53 <janina> present in HTML4. Thus this recommendation serves as our baseline of
15:14:55 <janina> table summary support.
15:14:56 <MikeSmith> -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009 Summary Change Proposal Nov 18, 2009
15:15:08 <oedipus> from GJR reply to hixie: "given the fact that those who actually use and benefit from summary are demanding that -- in the absence of a superior mechanism -- @summary should be retained for now as it was defined in HTML4, how can your theoretical and highly speculative objections override a user need?"
15:15:49 <Zakim> +Eric
15:15:57 <mattmay> MikeSmith: Consensus in the TF is that we don't want @summary to be obsolete.
15:16:10 <oedipus> GJR plus 1 to @summary conforming and NOT obsolete
15:16:12 <mattmay> janina: We want it to be conforming, and the words are in the resolution. 
15:16:13 <dboudreau> +1
15:16:18 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #html-a11y
15:16:45 <mattmay> janina: We're going to move forward from this baseline. Trying to help HTML WG reach LC.
15:16:47 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Table
15:17:01 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:17:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
15:17:06 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Table_Summary
15:17:20 <mattmay> cyns: Same CP I put forward in November: go back to HTML 4 status quo, get rid of validator warning.
15:17:42 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/summary_element
15:17:46 <mattmay> cyns: Seems like the easiest thing to do is put it back while we move forward.
15:18:47 <mattmay> MikeSmith: I think it's in the hands of the WG chairs from here.
15:20:06 <oedipus> proposed RESOLUTION: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the change proposal at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009 to reinstate table summary as conforming and not +obsolete. We adopt this recommendation even as we continue engineering work on possible enhancements to table summary. However,+any enhancements we might propose would only elaborate on this proposal and, most particularly, would not remove the support +for au
15:20:13 <oedipus> GJR plus 1
15:20:49 <oedipus> Proposed Res continued: "Thus this recommendation serves as our baseline of table summary support."
15:20:58 <JF> +1 to Resolution
15:21:07 <dboudreau> in favor as well
15:21:11 <mattmay> +1
15:21:12 <Marco_Ranon> +1 to Resolution
15:21:19 <kliehm> +1
15:23:30 <janina> The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the change proposal at
15:23:30 <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009
15:23:30 <janina> to reinstate table summary as conforming and not +obsolete. We adopt
15:23:30 <janina> this recommendation even as we continue engineering work on possible
15:23:30 <janina> enhancements to table summary. However,+any enhancements we might
15:23:31 <janina> propose would only elaborate on this proposal and, most particularly,
15:23:32 <oedipus> proposed res: proposed RESOLUTION: The HTML-A11Y TF supports the change proposal at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009 to reinstate table summary as conforming and not +obsolete. We adopt this recommendation even as we continue engineering work on possible enhancements to table summary.Thus this recommendation serves as our baseline of table summary support.
15:23:33 <janina> would not remove the support +for author provided text as has been
15:23:35 <janina> present in HTML4. Thus this recommendation serves as our baseline of
15:23:37 <janina> table summary support.
15:24:30 <mattmay> RESOLUTION: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the change proposal at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_Change_Proposal_Nov_18,_2009 to reinstate table summary as conforming and not obsolete. We adopt this recommendation even as we continue engineering work on possible enhancements to table summary.
15:24:50 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
15:25:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:25:15 <mattmay> RESOLUTION: However, any enhancements we might propose would only elaborate on this proposal and, most particularly, would not remove the support for author-provided text as has been present in HTML4. Thus this recommendation serves as our baseline of table summary support.
15:25:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:25:33 <oedipus> chair: Mike_Smith
15:25:49 <MikeSmith> agenda?
15:25:58 <Stevef> zakim, IPcaller is SteveF
15:26:01 <Zakim> +SteveF; got it
15:26:04 <oedipus> regrets+ Laura_Carlson, Sylvia_Pfiefer
15:26:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:26:27 <MikeSmith> Zakim, take up item 9
15:26:27 <Zakim> agendum 9. "ARIA integration" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:27:09 <mattmay> Stevef: Aiming to finish by the end of June.
15:27:47 <mattmay> MikeSmith: Anything blocking this?
15:27:50 <mattmay> richardschwerdtfe: no.
15:29:39 <oedipus> steveF, i will post the proposed appendix to the alt advice doc on the wiki for others with strong opinions to comment upon
15:29:44 <mattmay> cyns: We've identified work items.
15:30:03 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
15:30:08 <Stevef> oedipus:ok thanks
15:30:23 <mattmay> janina: There's a 90-minute telecon for this item, Tuesdays at 1900Z.
15:31:03 <MikeSmith> this is for issue 85
15:32:30 <MikeSmith> zakim, take up item 11
15:32:30 <Zakim> agendum 11. "Canvas status" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:33:09 <mattmay> MikeSmith: Still haven't gotten feedback on our proposal. It's in the WG chairs' hands.
15:34:01 <mattmay> MikeSmith: Also need to process imagemaps proposal.
15:34:14 <mattmay> MikeSmith: Need to form a concrete imagemap CP
15:35:18 <mattmay> MikeSmith: Feedback to the chairs by 27 May. Would like chaals to have a proposal by 13 May.
15:36:15 <Zakim> -Jim_Allan
15:36:43 <mattmay> richardschwerdtfe: On focus caret, proposal was sent out on 11 Apr. Didn't get a response. Asked Apple, Mozilla and MS directly. Talked with Frank, David Bolter, made edits, submitted this week. Need feedback from Apple/MS.
15:36:44 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
15:36:45 <oedipus> Rich's Draft Revisons to Canvas 2D Context API (11 April 2010) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0121.html
15:37:10 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/att-0121/2dcontext10-Apr-11.html
15:37:29 <mattmay> richardschwerdtfe: We want to deliver the poll by 24 May, final proposal by 3 June.
15:38:00 <oedipus> caret tracking and focus query from Rich on Canvas: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0025.html
15:38:09 <mattmay> richardschwerdtfe: Not sure how we're going to map the caret on OS X. There's a gap on Linux, but we can get that corrected in Linux Foundation.
15:38:24 <Zakim> -Mark_Hakkinen
15:38:46 <Zakim> -Ben
15:38:47 <oedipus> rich, eric offered to talk to maciej on focus and caret issues
15:39:08 <Zakim> +Ben
15:39:13 <Stevef> +
15:39:26 <mattmay> eric_carlson: I will talk to Maciej.
15:40:07 <oedipus> s/with Frank, David/with Frank Olivier, David/
15:40:36 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010AprJun/0021.html
15:40:59 <Zakim> +Mark_Hakkinen
15:41:27 <oedipus> rich, 13 may is what mike said earlier
15:42:28 <oedipus> dbolter reply to RichS' specific questions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0338.html
15:42:40 <Stevef> q+
15:43:03 <oedipus> frank olivier's initial feedback to RichS: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0296.html
15:43:12 <MikeSmith> agenda?
15:43:18 <MikeSmith> ack Stevef 
15:43:29 <MikeSmith> zakim, drop item 12
15:43:29 <Zakim> agendum 12, table summarry, dropped
15:43:33 <MikeSmith> zakim, drop item 11
15:43:33 <Zakim> agendum 11, Canvas status, dropped
15:43:36 <MikeSmith> zakim, drop item 9
15:43:36 <Zakim> agendum 9, ARIA integration, dropped
15:44:24 <mattmay> Stevef: I've been asking about how to get the alt document published as FPWD, but no answers.
15:44:47 <MikeSmith> Topic: Steve Faulkner needs feedback on taking the alt-techniques document to FPWD
15:45:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:46:28 <mattmay> MikeSmith: I'll figure it out. Shouldn't be objections to publishing.
15:46:40 <mattmay> Stevef: The objection may be that there is normative advice.
15:47:14 <mattmay> Stevef: Shouldn't be a blocker, because neither it nor the HTML draft text has consensus.
15:47:36 <oedipus> could file bugs against html5 after alt advice published as public draft
15:49:15 <JF> Media Subgroup minutes of May 5:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0056.html
15:49:30 <JF> Accessibility Requirements of Media:  http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media
15:49:32 <MikeSmith> zakim, take up item 10
15:49:32 <Zakim> agendum 10. "Media TF status" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:50:02 <MikeSmith> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0056.html Media Subgroup minutes of May 5
15:50:13 <mattmay> JF: We need to formalize our accessibility requirements. Need a clear and concise working plan.
15:50:23 <MikeSmith> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media Accessibility Requirements of Media
15:50:27 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Sub-Group
15:50:50 <mattmay> JF: We need lots of eyes on this. Log into wiki to add comments.
15:51:46 <mattmay> JF: Timed Text is an issue.
15:52:23 <mattmay> janina: There was significant concern, particularly among developers, that spec language is being introduced for media that is not based on input that is being processed for the HTML WG.
15:53:20 <mattmay> janina: There was a concern that this is not W3C process.
15:53:33 <MikeSmith> q?
15:53:35 <oedipus> q?
15:53:38 <mattmay> janina: There was no objection to raising this to the WG.
15:54:14 <mattmay> Geoff: Assuming you're talking about WebSRT. It occurred to me that I don't know who Ian is or his role.
15:54:27 <mattmay> Geoff: Why is he allowed to do this without consensus?
15:54:57 <dboudreau> grabbong a pop corn and a coke.. this will be interestong
15:56:07 <oedipus> aside from editing HTML5, hixie also edits CSS 2.1 and XUL amongst others
15:56:13 <mattmay> janina: WHATWG process allows Ian to commit changes to HTML5 spec independently. So far, nobody has stepped up to edit pieces of it.
15:56:24 <MikeSmith> -> http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html HTML Working Group Decision Policy
15:57:53 <mattmay> MikeSmith: HTML WG has done something unique: it's documented a decision policy that puts some authority in the hand of the editors. They have a measure of authority to author spec text in an editor's draft, then to put the obligation on people to object and produce change proposals.
15:57:54 <mattmay> q+
15:58:10 <MikeSmith> ack mattmay 
15:58:26 <JF> +1 to matt
15:58:50 <oedipus> geoff, WHAT WG is located (surprisingly) at http://www.whatwg.org/
15:59:20 <oedipus> MM: voices objections about antagonism which seems to be part of the HTML WG dysfunction 
15:59:22 <oedipus> plus 1
16:00:23 <mattmay> JF: This was deliberately provocative. There was lots of discussion of DFXP/SRT, the results of which showed that we were all on the same page. Some grudging acceptance of getting SRT out the door, but also DFXP. Then, to have the WHATWG throw something like WebSRT.
16:00:34 <mattmay> JF: I think the chairs need to do something to stop this process.
16:00:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:01:57 <mattmay> MikeSmith: We need to discuss this with the chairs. Once it's in the spec, it increases the work we have to do to make further changes.
16:03:04 <MikeSmith> q?
16:03:34 <oedipus> also being implemented by fiat despite w3c boilerplate disclaimers on instability of spec in development
16:03:43 <mattmay> Stevef: This has already been discussed on Ajaxian as "the captioning standard for HTML5". Going to be hard to extract.
16:03:54 <JF> the text in question: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/video.html#websrt
16:04:54 <Laura> Laura has joined #html-a11y
16:04:55 <Zakim> -SteveF
16:05:08 <dboudreau> take care all
16:05:12 <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop Mike
16:05:15 <Marco_Ranon> bye
16:05:16 <AllanJ> AllanJ has left #html-a11y
16:05:22 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:05:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
16:05:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
16:06:03 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2119
16:06:03 <Zakim> sorry, MichaelC, I do not see a conference named '2119' in progress or scheduled at this time
16:06:08 <Ben> Ben has left #html-a11y
16:06:22 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:06:35 <janina> janina has left #html-a11y
16:08:36 <MichaelC> present: John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, Mike, kliehm (muted), Geoff_Freed, Michael_Cooper, Marco, Matt, Janina_Sajka, Cynthia_Shelly, Ben, Denis_Boudreau, Rich, Mark_Hakkinen, Eric, SteveF, Jim_Allan
16:09:04 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC
16:09:33 <MichaelC> present- kliehm_(muted)
16:09:36 <MichaelC> present+ kliehm
16:09:46 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC
16:11:15 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has left #html-a11y
16:42:10 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has left #html-a11y