IRC log of swcg on 2010-04-07
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 12:35:30 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #swcg
- 12:35:30 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swcg-irc
- 12:35:37 [ivan]
- zakim, this will be swcg
- 12:35:37 [Zakim]
- ok, ivan; I see SW_CG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
- 12:35:44 [ivan]
- rrsagent, set log public
- 12:35:57 [ivan]
- Meeting: W3C SW Coordination Group Telco
- 12:36:01 [ivan]
- Chair: Ivan
- 12:36:06 [ivan]
- Scribe: Tom
- 12:47:51 [manu_]
- manu_ has joined #swcg
- 12:47:52 [raphael]
- raphael has joined #swcg
- 12:49:02 [manu-work]
- manu-work has changed the topic to: Semantic Web Coordination Group (manu-work)
- 12:53:23 [ChrisW]
- ChrisW has joined #swcg
- 12:58:40 [TomB]
- TomB has joined #swcg
- 12:58:49 [ivan]
- zakim, dial ivan-voip
- 12:58:49 [Zakim]
- ok, ivan; the call is being made
- 12:58:50 [Zakim]
- SW_CG()9:00AM has now started
- 12:58:51 [Zakim]
- +Ivan
- 12:59:26 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 12:59:27 [Zakim]
- -??P10
- 12:59:27 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 12:59:30 [manu-work]
- zakim, I am ??P10
- 12:59:30 [Zakim]
- +manu-work; got it
- 12:59:45 [mscottm]
- mscottm has joined #swcg
- 13:00:09 [ChrisW]
- ChrisW has joined #swcg
- 13:00:15 [Zakim]
- +Raphael
- 13:00:19 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 13:00:28 [Zakim]
- +Tom_Baker (was ??P12)
- 13:00:44 [Zakim]
- +mscottm
- 13:01:19 [ivan]
- scribenick: TomB
- 13:02:02 [Zakim]
- +ChrisW
- 13:03:24 [Zakim]
- +me,
- 13:03:49 [joakim]
- joakim has joined #swcg
- 13:04:03 [manu-work]
- zakim, me, is joakim
- 13:04:03 [Zakim]
- +joakim; got it
- 13:04:04 [Zakim]
- +mhausenblas
- 13:04:21 [ivan]
- zakim, who is here
- 13:04:21 [Zakim]
- ivan, you need to end that query with '?'
- 13:04:30 [ivan]
- zakim, who is here?
- 13:04:30 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Ivan, manu-work, Raphael, Tom_Baker, mscottm, ChrisW, joakim, mhausenblas
- 13:05:00 [sandro]
- zakim not working.
- 13:05:20 [sandro]
- I know, but I can't get on.
- 13:05:27 [manu-work]
- http://connectedmediaexperience.org/
- 13:05:29 [Zakim]
- +Sandro
- 13:05:34 [sandro]
- (now on)
- 13:07:11 [TomB]
- Introductions: MichaelH, ManuS, Rafael, Tom, Scott, ChrisW, Joakim...
- 13:07:21 [raphael]
- s/Rafael/Raphael
- 13:07:37 [TomB]
- Joakim: senior associate at Ericsson, Sweden, works with multimedia indexing - co-chair media annotation WG
- 13:08:00 [TomB]
- ...Introductions: Sandro (and of course Ivan)
- 13:08:11 [TomB]
- Topic: Admin
- 13:08:24 [ivan]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2010/03/10-swcg-minutes.html minutes of last meeting
- 13:08:54 [TomB]
- Resolved: minutes from 2010-03-10 accepted.
- 13:09:03 [TomB]
- Next meeting: 2010-04-21
- 13:10:20 [TomB]
- Topic: Media Annotation WG update
- 13:11:19 [TomB]
- Joakim: Have been working for 1.5 years, now close to Last Call for our ontology and API spec.
- 13:11:42 [TomB]
- ... More or less successfully managed to map 20 formats and core set of ?20 attributes
- 13:12:17 [TomB]
- ... Want to make sure we have not missed any. Want to specify "exact", "close", "related".
- 13:12:33 [TomB]
- ... We also consider datatypes. Not trivial.
- 13:12:42 [manu-work]
- URL to latest editors draft?
- 13:12:53 [TomB]
- ... We have mapping table. Recently query from BBC re: RDF implementation of ontology.
- 13:13:19 [TomB]
- ... Many are keen on SW technologies, so Task Group in group to pursue this as parallel activity - not in charter.
- 13:13:31 [raphael]
- Ontology for Media Resources 1.0: http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-mediaont-10-20100309
- 13:13:43 [raphael]
- API for Media Resources 1.0: http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20100309
- 13:13:45 [TomB]
- ... Working on API defined with Web ADL
- 13:13:54 [raphael]
- Use Cases and Requirements document: http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-media-annot-reqs-20100121
- 13:14:15 [TomB]
- ... put out current specs - have review from Opera and others.
- 13:14:50 [ivan]
- q?
- 13:14:52 [TomB]
- ... would like to have review process finished in order to hold Last Call in April or May
- 13:14:55 [manu-work]
- q+ to ask about Connected Media Experience.
- 13:15:27 [TomB]
- q+ to ask about Vocabulary Mapping Framework http://cdlr.strath.ac.uk/VMF/news.htm
- 13:16:01 [ivan]
- ack manu-work
- 13:16:01 [Zakim]
- manu-work, you wanted to ask about Connected Media Experience.
- 13:16:45 [TomB]
- Manu: Does the MA prefix in section 4.1.2. map to a known URL, described by RDF document - do we expect people would be able to use this ontology directly?
- 13:17:04 [TomB]
- Ivan: Use ma:creator or dc:creator?
- 13:17:14 [manu-work]
- q+ to ask about Connected Media Experience?
- 13:17:38 [TomB]
- Joakim: Spec currently in prose, so no RDF implementation or defining a namespace. Currently not on the agenda. Will not be part of the recommendation.
- 13:17:52 [TomB]
- Ivan: Doesn't tell me how to add metadata in RDF.
- 13:17:53 [raphael]
- q+
- 13:17:59 [ivan]
- ack TomB
- 13:17:59 [Zakim]
- TomB, you wanted to ask about Vocabulary Mapping Framework http://cdlr.strath.ac.uk/VMF/news.htm
- 13:18:03 [mscottm]
- q+ to ask what is the greatest barrier to adoption by (which?) target community?
- 13:18:12 [ivan]
- scribenick: ivan
- 13:18:32 [ivan]
- Tom: Jisc undertook a vocabulary mappiung framework, how does it relate?
- 13:18:52 [ivan]
- ... i am unusure about what mapping initiatives try to achieve
- 13:19:02 [ivan]
- ... do you know about that?
- 13:19:15 [ivan]
- joakim: I did not know about that initiative
- 13:19:18 [ivan]
- ... reference?
- 13:19:26 [ivan]
- TomB: already did
- 13:19:29 [mscottm]
- http://www.jisc.ac.uk/
- 13:20:03 [ivan]
- ... my general question is: from a sw point of view we have a landscape of vocabularies, and now we have these mapping initiatives
- 13:20:20 [ivan]
- ... and the question is what the function of those mappings is supposed to be
- 13:20:23 [manu-work]
- Vocabulary mixing is also going to become very prevalent when RDFa 1.1 hits the web next year.
- 13:20:42 [ivan]
- ... is it something that augments the use of distributed vocabularies, or does it replace them?
- 13:20:57 [ivan]
- joakim: we did discuss that
- 13:21:11 [ivan]
- ... some members would like to see a specification with rdf
- 13:21:17 [ivan]
- ... it is still not excluded
- 13:21:21 [TomB]
- Joakim: Some members want to see RDF implementation but still not excluded - would be like a slice
- 13:21:36 [ivan]
- scribenick: TomB
- 13:22:04 [TomB]
- ... Another common question: how does it relate to DC? At time DC was developed - there is no semantics of relationships to other attributes.
- 13:22:06 [ivan]
- q?
- 13:22:36 [TomB]
- ... Our attributes could be viewed as a vocabulary. We have attributes that are terms. Very easy to make ontology - the long-term purpose.
- 13:23:07 [TomB]
- ... We have semantic relationships in place. But group did not want to demand a technology in the implementation - would make it less useful.
- 13:23:09 [ivan]
- ack manu-work
- 13:23:09 [Zakim]
- manu-work, you wanted to ask about Connected Media Experience?
- 13:23:21 [manu-work]
- http://connectedmediaexperience.org/technicaloverview.html
- 13:24:13 [TomB]
- Manu: New standard being worked on that has strong overlap with Media Fragments - express music, television, movies, on Web in standard way - using RDF as base mechanism
- 13:27:53 [joakim]
- +q
- 13:30:11 [TomB]
- q+
- 13:31:05 [ivan]
- ack raphael
- 13:32:01 [TomB]
- Raphael: So this is basically a mapping and the working group is asking how to represent and whether it should be implemented somehow. Explicit RDF, SKOS, etc?
- 13:32:35 [TomB]
- Joakim: Good summary.
- 13:33:57 [ivan]
- ack mscottm
- 13:33:57 [Zakim]
- mscottm, you wanted to ask what is the greatest barrier to adoption by (which?) target community?
- 13:34:15 [manu-work]
- Joakim, Raphael: my e-mail: msporny@digitalbazaar.com - follow up with me after the telecon.
- 13:35:16 [TomB]
- Scott: In meantime, re: participating in W3C, in Health Care - seen other groups being created. Question: Specific apps that will help improve uptake of your work? Barriers to uptake?
- 13:35:33 [ivan]
- ack joakim
- 13:36:25 [TomB]
- Joakim: Two scenarios: one implemented in browser, another as Web service (if you are a metadata aggregator)
- 13:37:29 [TomB]
- ?: Do you see need for provenance for metadata?
- 13:37:45 [manu-work]
- Provenance shouldn't be their problem, right?
- 13:37:49 [manu-work]
- it's in a different layer?
- 13:37:53 [TomB]
- Joakim: not mentioned in spec, but should be covered by different layer.
- 13:38:00 [ivan]
- ack TomB
- 13:38:20 [manu-work]
- yes, that's right Tom.
- 13:39:43 [raphael]
- My Slides: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/talks/2010-04-07/
- 13:39:53 [TomB]
- Topic: Media Fragments
- 13:40:39 [TomB]
- Raphael: Spoke to CG one year ago. 15 active participants.
- 13:41:21 [TomB]
- ... Goal: URI-based mechanism for identifying media fragments on Web.
- 13:41:36 [TomB]
- ... We spent several months on use cases.
- 13:41:44 [TomB]
- ... Slides 4 and 5 are user stories.
- 13:42:25 [TomB]
- ... People who want to share delimited sequences of videos and get URI to share via microblogging
- 13:43:08 [TomB]
- ... Lena wants to browse audio tracks of videos - not send all tracks over wire, but select tracks for display
- 13:44:46 [TomB]
- ... refer by name to particular chapters ...
- 13:45:26 [TomB]
- ... Slide 7: Media Fragment URI Syn tax for Time, Space, Track, and Name
- 13:46:03 [TomB]
- ... API in Javascript - browser can find out what tracks are available
- 13:46:40 [TomB]
- ... Track and Name are trickier, especially Int'ln problems
- 13:47:03 [TomB]
- ... Slide 8: Normally, hash is stripped out before sending to sever.
- 13:47:08 [TomB]
- ... will slightly change...
- 13:47:29 [TomB]
- ... we foresee smart agents that do not throw out hash, but encode into HTTP headers
- 13:47:43 [TomB]
- ... in order to serve fragments requested
- 13:48:00 [TomB]
- ... current browsers will just ignore - not break.
- 13:48:51 [TomB]
- ... Slide 9: http request, smart user agent can make mapping
- 13:49:16 [TomB]
- ... can expose response
- 13:49:41 [TomB]
- .... Slide 10: what is sent back is just the bytes corresponding to the sequence
- 13:49:57 [TomB]
- ... with HTML5 browser
- 13:50:40 [TomB]
- ... Slide 11: user needs server help. Custom units can be used in range requests.
- 13:51:01 [TomB]
- ... will extract bytes and send back with 206 partial content
- 13:51:26 [TomB]
- ... mapping between time and bytes, packages sent back to users.
- 13:52:05 [TomB]
- ... Slide 13: Optimization of Recipe 2. Question in seconds, answer in bytes.
- 13:52:42 [TomB]
- ... win cachability with this recipe
- 13:53:42 [TomB]
- ... Slide 15: optimization, different - request expressed in seconds, but serves multi-part response - not just bytes corresponding to sequence, but playable response
- 13:54:52 [ivan]
- works for me
- 13:55:13 [ivan]
- worked for me, highlighting raphael:-)
- 13:55:16 [TomB]
- ... Slide 16: Demo. Click on Media Fragments player. Click on GO. Can just play sequence that is highlighted.
- 13:55:45 [TomB]
- ... click on Silvia's experiment with HTML5 and Javascript.
- 13:56:08 [ivan]
- that one does not work in safari:-(
- 13:56:55 [TomB]
- ... implementations in pipeline for HTML5
- 13:57:13 [TomB]
- ... normally should work with Safari, Opera, Chrome, Mozilla
- 13:57:20 [ivan]
- q?
- 13:57:28 [manu-work]
- q+ to discuss server implementation
- 13:57:34 [ivan]
- ack manu-work
- 13:57:34 [Zakim]
- manu-work, you wanted to discuss server implementation
- 13:58:10 [TomB]
- Manu: Is this something we are expecting Apache and IIS teams to pick up and implement, or expecting modules that Apache uses? How do we expect this to be used in field?
- 13:58:13 [ivan]
- q+
- 13:58:47 [TomB]
- Raphael: Currently talking with Squid (proxies) - hope to have Apache modules. Would be codec-dependent.
- 13:59:02 [TomB]
- ... would aim at good coverage of major formats.
- 13:59:10 [manu-work]
- This would be very useful for <video> and <audio> tags in HTML5.
- 13:59:17 [ivan]
- ack ivan
- 13:59:38 [manu-work]
- q+ what about <video> and <audio> tags?
- 14:00:12 [Zakim]
- -ChrisW
- 14:00:20 [TomB]
- Ivan: On client side, talking with browser vendors? Opera in WG, impelementing. Longer-term, will be native. Mozilla patch. Apple is in WG.
- 14:00:26 [TomB]
- ... Imagine it will be supported.
- 14:00:35 [ivan]
- q?
- 14:00:45 [manu-work]
- ack what,
- 14:00:51 [ivan]
- q=
- 14:00:54 [manu-work]
- ack what
- 14:00:56 [manu-work]
- ack about
- 14:00:59 [manu-work]
- ack <video>
- 14:01:02 [manu-work]
- ack <audio>
- 14:01:03 [TomB]
- ... We are in close touch with HTML5 working group.
- 14:01:04 [manu-work]
- ack tags?
- 14:01:10 [manu-work]
- q+
- 14:01:23 [TomB]
- ... "Yes, will work with fragments".
- 14:01:26 [ivan]
- ack manu-work
- 14:01:45 [TomB]
- Manu: Video and audio tags is primary element targeted?
- 14:02:20 [TomB]
- Raphael: Targeting both, but any URI you put in browser bar. Flash clients that can also handle. Not just HTML5. But HTML5 really pushing.
- 14:02:41 [TomB]
- ... HTML5 covering understanding hash fragments.
- 14:02:42 [ivan]
- q?
- 14:02:58 [TomB]
- ChrisW?: QuickTime versus Flash?
- 14:03:45 [ivan]
- s/ChrisW?/Scott/
- 14:03:47 [TomB]
- Raphael: not really. Main problem with both: plug-in within browser. So if looking in browser environment, need communication with plug-in - security issues.
- 14:04:10 [TomB]
- ... Native audio and video HTML browsers handier to implement.
- 14:04:54 [TomB]
- Ivan: URI structure will give additional structure for talking about fragments of media.
- 14:05:19 [TomB]
- Meeting adjourned - thank you Raphael and Joakim.
- 14:05:29 [mscottm]
- thanks all! bye!
- 14:05:29 [Zakim]
- -mhausenblas
- 14:05:30 [Zakim]
- -Sandro
- 14:05:31 [Zakim]
- -joakim
- 14:05:32 [Zakim]
- -Raphael
- 14:05:32 [Zakim]
- -manu-work
- 14:05:34 [ivan]
- zakim, drop me
- 14:05:34 [Zakim]
- Ivan is being disconnected
- 14:05:34 [Zakim]
- -Ivan
- 14:05:36 [Zakim]
- -mscottm
- 14:05:42 [TomB]
- query manu-work
- 14:05:49 [manu-work]
- ?
- 14:05:50 [ivan]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:05:50 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swcg-minutes.html ivan
- 14:06:03 [ivan]
- zakim, who is here?
- 14:06:03 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Tom_Baker
- 14:06:09 [manu-work]
- yes
- 14:06:12 [manu-work]
- want me to dial back in?
- 14:06:48 [ivan]
- zakim is still alive so manu can simply dial back
- 14:06:49 [manu-work]
- call back in?
- 14:07:05 [ivan]
- yes, the reservation for the call is until half past...
- 14:07:19 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:14:58 [manu-work]
- raphael - my skype ID: msporny - can we have a short chat in 15 minutes?
- 14:29:10 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller]
- 14:29:11 [Zakim]
- -Tom_Baker
- 14:29:11 [Zakim]
- SW_CG()9:00AM has ended
- 14:29:13 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Ivan, manu-work, Raphael, Tom_Baker, mscottm, ChrisW, joakim, mhausenblas, Sandro, [IPcaller]
- 14:29:24 [ivan]
- zakim, bye
- 14:29:24 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #swcg
- 14:29:29 [ivan]
- rrsagent, bye
- 14:29:29 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items