<scribe> Scribe: Andi

davidb, Cynthia and I are in the call. Are you coming?

<davidb> yep! 1 sec

frames/iframes

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#document-handling_frames

<davidb> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7120

<davidb> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7119

<davidb> I created frame tests here http://people.mozilla.com/~dbolter/frames/

some confusion over the terms "inner document accessible" and "outer document accessible"

CS: these seem to be FF terms
... frame node is not in the accessibility tree
... only the child document is in the accessibility tree

DB: in FF, for frame with no ARIA, FF does expose in accessibility tree
... if ARIA, will apply the ARIA to it
... in parent document, could set up relationships between the parts of the frame

CS: thinks IE would be resistant to change it but not as resistant as with aria-owns issue

DB: need web authors to tell us what they want

CS: if have ARIA, needs to be in accessibility tree for sure
... wonder if we can handle with author advice
... put a role on it if ....
... if the frame is important to the application, put a role on it
... having the frame as opposed to the document, is not always important

DB: yes, this could be a best practice
... in order to spend time on this, we need to know who wants us to spend time on it
... need to run FF and IE side by side, look at trees and see how they work with AT
... have a test file we could use

CS: maybe we can do this at the F2F

<davidb> http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/

<davidb> http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/firefox-3.7a3pre.en-US.win32.zip

<davidb> http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/firefox-3.7a3pre.en-US.win32.installer.exe

<davidb> release http://www.mozilla.com/products/download.html?product=firefox-3.6&os=osx&lang=en-US

<davidb> oops

<davidb> http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/personal.html

AS: need to figure out what's different about computing names and descriptions for frames/iframes

CS: there's the child document that makes it different
... don't think there's anything different about computing the name
... there is a name attribute that acts like title

DB: there are some unique things about inner document accessible

CS: think we're talking about the accessibility tree node that corresponds to the frame or iframe element vs. the accessibility tree node that corresponds to the document that is in the frame or iframe

DB: wonder if Steve could do this testing for us

CS: he'll be at the F2F but not sure if he'll have his testing environment with him
... nothing special about the outer frame - says so in the document
... could say user agents may/should expose the frame element as an accessibility tree node
... role would be pane and name would be calculated normally
... inner document has role of pane? it's in the bug - think that's what IE does

treatment of frame or iframe element could go in the mapping table

AS: but we don't have HTML elements in the mapping table - only WAI-ARIA stuff

DB: in FF, inner document name is URL if frame has no name
... in FF, if frame does have a name, gets inherited by inner document

CS: in IE, use title of the inner document

DB: not clear what AT wants

CS: could ask AT people

DB: has contacts, will ask

CS: if they don't care, we should take it out

AS: seems like this is a problem for authors to make it work in both FF and IE

CS: can you put a labeledby on the body tag?
... in IE, would create a node if labeledby is on it
... just need to try it and see how it works

DB: 3rd case in test suite has labeledby

<scribe> ACTION: Cynthia to test [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

CS: first section about outer document accessible seems right

Cynthia will look at computing the accessible name and description

for inner document accessible

CS: "outer document accessible" is "accessibility node for frame elements"
... "inner document accessible" is "accessibility node for contained documents"
... do these attributes still exist? container-live, container-atomic, container-relevant, and container-busy

DB: these are object attributes, not ARIA attributes

AS: in the state/property mapping table, these are already mapped from the relevant aria properties

DB: allows author of root document to say whether things in the iframe are going to be a live region
... gives document author control over what is spoken

CS: scenario should be described here

<davidb> DB: this is basically about a mashup scenario. where it is usually the nearest parent container with aria-live, aria-atomic, aria-relevant, and aria-busy that decides what object attribute appears on the child for container-live, container-atomic, container-relevant, and container-busy. in the case of a subdocument (via e.g. iframe) the iframe ria-live, aria-atomic, aria-relevant, and aria-busy overrides

<davidb> DB: this allows the author of the root document to control what gets spoken, for example.

<davidb> DB: they might include an otherwise polite chat program in an iframe and make it assertive

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Found Scribe: Andi
Inferring ScribeNick: Andi
Default Present: Andi_Snow_Weaver, Cynthia_Shelly, David_Bolter, Michael_Cooper
Present: Andi_Snow_Weaver Cynthia_Shelly David_Bolter Michael_Cooper

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<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 09 Mar 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: cynthia

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