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Chatlog 2011-02-24
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14:50:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa 14:50:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-rdfa-irc 14:50:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:50:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa 14:50:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332 14:50:43 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes 14:50:44 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference 14:50:44 <trackbot> Date: 24 February 2011 14:57:10 <Steven> Steven has joined #rdfa 14:57:44 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Feb/0160.html 14:57:59 <manu1> Chair: Manu 14:59:48 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started 14:59:56 <Zakim> +??P13 14:59:58 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P13 14:59:59 <Zakim> +manu1; got it 15:00:06 <Zakim> +Benjamin 15:00:36 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip 15:00:36 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made 15:00:37 <Zakim> +Ivan 15:02:36 <Zakim> +??P17 15:03:23 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa 15:03:32 <ShaneM> zakim, who is here? 15:03:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, Benjamin, Ivan, ??P17 15:03:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see ShaneM, Steven, Zakim, RRSAgent, Benjamin, ivan, tinkster, manu1, webr3, manu, trackbot 15:03:39 <ShaneM> zakim, ??P17 is ShaneM 15:03:39 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it 15:04:14 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call? 15:04:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, Benjamin, Ivan, ShaneM 15:04:29 <manu1> Present: Benjamin, Ivan, Manu, MarkB, Shane, Steven 15:04:29 <manu1> Regrets: Toby 15:05:31 <Steven> zakim, call steven-617 15:05:31 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made 15:05:33 <Zakim> +Steven 15:05:56 <Benjamin> scribe: Benjamin 15:06:15 <manu1> Topic: HTML WG ISSUE-120 Coordination 15:06:40 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/RDFaPrefixesNoChange 15:06:56 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #rdfa 15:07:05 <Benjamin> manu: Ivan, Toby, and I have updated the proposal with all of our argumentation and it is ready for the vote in HTML WG during the first week of March 2011. There will most likely be a W3C vote on whether or not to remove prefixes and CURIEs from HTML+RDFa. 15:07:11 <markbirbeck> zakim, code? 15:07:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), markbirbeck 15:07:28 <Benjamin> ... modulo minor fixes to the prose, we think we have done all that we can before the vote. 15:08:00 <Zakim> +??P5 15:08:07 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ? 15:08:07 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it 15:09:34 <manu1> Topic: Preparation for 2nd Last Call 15:09:54 <Benjamin> manu: I believe that we have discussed all of the last call issues 15:10:23 <Benjamin> ... does anybody know unadressed issues? 15:10:41 <ivan> (deep silence...) 15:10:51 <manu1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Feb/0044.html 15:10:53 <Benjamin> ... nobody knows of any 15:11:11 <ivan> s/knos/knows/ 15:11:11 <Steven> Yep. 15:11:28 <Steven> I will send my mails tonight or tomorrow a.m. 15:13:04 <Benjamin> manu: Shane can you give a status on your issues? 15:14:27 <Benjamin> shane: Issue 70 is still outstanding 15:15:02 <Benjamin> Steven: Will send my responses to my issues later today or tonight. 15:17:52 <ivan> zakim, mute me 15:17:52 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted 15:18:39 <ivan> shane, is there anything waiting on me for the document? 15:18:46 <Benjamin> shane: Implemented changes on RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa documents 15:19:45 <Benjamin> shane: You can point to a live version of a spec in last call responses 15:20:43 <Benjamin> manu: we should ask previous reviewers to review the changed specs before we start the second last call 15:21:40 <Benjamin> shane: I could make two versions of the specs, one for us to review by next week. The second draft will be shown to the community (and previous reviewers) - folks will review before we enter 2nd last call just to make sure there are no surprises. 15:21:59 <Benjamin> manu: anything else we need to be aware of before the 2nd last call? 15:22:07 <Benjamin> silence 15:22:17 <manu1> Topic: RDF and RDFa API next steps 15:22:37 <ivan> q+ 15:23:19 <ivan> ack ivan 15:23:20 <manu1> ack ivan 15:23:29 <Benjamin> manu: Maybe we should invite other people that are familiar with web developements and RDF for working on the RDFa API, RDF API topics 15:24:16 <ShaneM> just to be clear - I will also turn up. I just might not add much value. 15:24:37 <Benjamin> shane will contribute less to the APIs 15:25:07 <Benjamin> Steven: will contribute less to the APIs 15:25:45 <Benjamin> Benjamin: I am interested in contributing to the APIs 15:26:24 <Benjamin> markbirbeck: I am interested in contributing to the APIs We should also invite Python programmers to contribute. 15:26:55 <Benjamin> ivan: Our emphasis should be on web development, JavaScript people 15:28:13 <Benjamin> manu: We should take into account RDF in JSON activities in RDF Working Group when working on the APIs - we want the RDF API, RDFa API and the RDF in JSON work to mesh well together. We must make sure that terminology between the specs matches up. 15:29:36 <Benjamin> ivan: I will try to invite Thomas Steiner to join us 15:32:06 <Benjamin> manu: We should try to contact other people, after the charter is accepted 15:33:20 <Benjamin> manu: anything else about high level issues on the RDFa API? 15:33:25 <Benjamin> silence 15:33:16 <manu1> Topic: RDFa API Review 15:33:46 <Benjamin> manu: Any missing features or bugs? 15:34:10 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-api/ 15:35:23 <Benjamin> manu: we have to discuss property groups and projections a bit more 15:35:41 <Benjamin> manu: especially work on terminology 15:36:43 <Benjamin> markbirbeck: I took nearly all projection-related things from SPARQL 15:37:02 <Benjamin> ivan: Should we refer to SPARQL instead of defining it ourself 15:37:19 <Benjamin> mark: it is more conceptually related 15:38:52 <Benjamin> ivan: Mark, you defined a subset of sparql in the RDFa API, maybe we should use and refer to the terms of SPARQL then. 15:39:47 <Benjamin> ivan: this might minimize our own work 15:41:25 <Benjamin> manu: we have to check details on projections if it is possible to map it to SPARQL specifications 15:42:18 <Benjamin> ivan: We should define our query patterns in a TURTLE like syntax -- that is close to SPARQL 15:43:20 <Benjamin> manu: The use of SPARQL might confuse web developers 15:44:05 <Benjamin> ivan: we should focus on use the simple parts of SPARQL in our approach. 15:44:44 <Benjamin> markbirbeck: My idea was to query with a JSON structure and syntax. 15:46:28 <Benjamin> ivan: We should not put complex SPARQL features such as optionals to our query approach 15:46:28 <markbirbeck> "?s" 15:46:34 <markbirbeck> "Ivan" 15:46:42 <markbirbeck> add(a, b) 15:47:48 <Benjamin> ivan: we should not provide features such as UNION, OPTIONAL, SUBSELECT 15:48:47 <Benjamin> manu: We should further discuss on querying objects in the RDFa API 15:49:59 <Benjamin> ivan: There is a similarity between TURTLE syntax and SPARQL patterns. Now there is an emerging JSON serialization of RDF, and our JSON related query features. 15:50:19 <Benjamin> ... both, TURTLE syntax and JSON syntax should be allowed 15:51:33 <Benjamin> TOPIC: RDF API Review 15:51:40 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-api/ 15:52:20 <Benjamin> manu: The prose describing design criteria and lots of examples are missing 15:53:15 <Benjamin> ... Nathan and I want a more generalized graph mechanism than RDF allows. 15:54:01 <Benjamin> ... these graphs may not be serializable in RDF/XML - we have to coordinate with the RDF working group 15:55:06 <Benjamin> ivan: A generalized graph mechanism is out of scope for the RDF Working Group, as is using blank nodes in predicates, or literals as subjects. 15:56:21 <Benjamin> ivan: However, a number of RDF environments already provide such generalized graph mechanisms. 15:59:17 <Benjamin> ivan: Often intermediate steps in these systems use versions of graphs that are also not serializable, e.g., for supporting reasoning. When serializing the graph, the generalized graph mechanism are ignored. 16:00:11 <Benjamin> ivan: It is not a problem to let serializers be silent on generalized graph mechanisms - so that may not be a big issue. 16:00:37 <Benjamin> ivan: Graph literals are heaviliy discussed at the moment so we should skip them 16:01:09 <Benjamin> q+ 16:01:35 <manu1> ack benjamin 16:01:49 <manu1> Benjamin: We should also solve the issue of Term and Prefix maps 16:02:54 <Benjamin> ivan: Why are these maps on the API level 16:04:00 <Benjamin> manu: they make programming easier as they save code. 16:04:22 <manu1> q+ to end the telecon 16:04:41 <Benjamin> manu: JS developers want to use terms more than prefixes. 16:05:04 <Steven> I sent my last call replies, by the way 16:05:13 <Zakim> -Steven 16:05:15 <Zakim> -ShaneM 16:18:18 <Benjamin> zakim, make minutes 16:18:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', Benjamin 16:18:50 <Zakim> -manu1 16:18:51 <Zakim> -markbirbeck 16:18:59 <ivan> zakim, drop me 16:18:59 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected 16:19:00 <Zakim> -Ivan 16:19:03 <Zakim> -Benjamin 16:19:04 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended 16:19:05 <Zakim> Attendees were manu1, Benjamin, Ivan, ShaneM, Steven, markbirbeck # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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