IRC log of ssn on 2010-02-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:41:16 [RRSAgent]
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19:41:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-ssn-irc
19:41:18 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
19:41:18 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be 7769
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ok, trackbot; I see INC_SSN()3:00PM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
19:41:21 [trackbot]
Meeting: Semantic Sensor Network Incubator Group Teleconference
19:41:21 [trackbot]
Date: 16 February 2010
19:41:38 [Holger]
agenda+ Roll call
19:41:45 [Holger]
agenda+ Actions from last meeting
19:41:52 [Holger]
agenda+ Next steps for SSN Ontology
19:42:00 [Holger]
agenda+ What happened in Dagstuhl?
19:42:06 [Holger]
agenda+ AOB
19:42:17 [Holger]
Chair: Holger
19:42:23 [Holger]
Regrets: Oscar, Kevin
19:54:04 [Zakim]
INC_SSN()3:00PM has now started
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+ +036232aaaa
19:54:26 [Holger]
zakim, +036232aaaa is me
19:54:26 [Zakim]
+Holger; got it
19:54:31 [laurent_oz]
laurent_oz has joined #ssn
19:55:32 [kerry]
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+??P5
19:57:54 [Payam]
zakim, ??P5 is me
19:57:54 [Zakim]
+Payam; got it
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+??P10
19:58:45 [Zakim]
+kerry
19:58:59 [Arthur]
Arthur has joined #ssn
19:58:59 [laurent_oz]
??P10 is me
19:59:48 [Holger]
Laurent, that's "zakim, ??P10 is me" ;-)
20:00:21 [Zakim]
+??P11
20:00:41 [Arthur]
zakim, ??P11 is me
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+Arthur; got it
20:02:07 [laurent_oz]
zakim, ??P10 is me
20:02:07 [Zakim]
+laurent_oz; got it
20:02:41 [Holger]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:02:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Holger, Payam, laurent_oz, kerry, Arthur
20:03:37 [michael]
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+??P12
20:04:26 [michael]
zakim, ??P12 is me
20:04:26 [Zakim]
+michael; got it
20:06:47 [krzysztof_j]
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20:06:53 [cory]
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20:07:34 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:08:11 [krzysztof_j]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
20:08:11 [Zakim]
+krzysztof_j; got it
20:08:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.937.775.aabb
20:08:31 [Holger]
agenda?
20:10:48 [Payam]
I can do this
20:10:53 [krzysztof_j]
i will do no problem
20:11:20 [Holger]
ScribeNick: laurent_oz
20:12:32 [laurent_oz]
Kerry: W3C responded to our request for extension for 6 months positively - to be announced formally
20:13:14 [laurent_oz]
Thank you to everybody which help for the draft report to help us to meet the extension
20:13:23 [krzysztof_j]
worlds
20:13:36 [krzysztof_j]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/images/5/5c/Sensor_ontology_alignment_to_dolce.pdf
20:14:09 [laurent_oz]
Krzystof_j talking about how to align our ontology with Dolce
20:16:00 [laurent_oz]
Discuss difference between observing the process and observation
20:17:14 [laurent_oz]
3rd slide list concepts which needs to be clearly separated to avoid misuse of the SSN ontology
20:19:14 [laurent_oz]
Slide 4 lists concepts which could be anchored to DOLCE as perdurants
20:21:10 [laurent_oz]
Point to discuss: sensing as an event rather than a process
20:24:12 [laurent_oz]
Slide 5 Feature used in two ways
20:24:36 [laurent_oz]
Holger: is it easy or hard to align our ontology to Dolce
20:24:37 [michael]
+q
20:24:39 [kerry]
+q
20:24:45 [laurent_oz]
Answer: it's relatively easy
20:24:50 [Holger]
ack michael
20:25:42 [Holger]
ack kerry
20:26:00 [laurent_oz]
Michael: two aspects, conceptualisation and data model - how we manage both aspects?
20:27:22 [laurent_oz]
Kerry: it is better to let both aspects of an observation in the ontology
20:27:41 [krzysztof_j]
+q
20:27:58 [laurent_oz]
But the ontology should not be prescriptive in the format of the record of the observation
20:28:58 [laurent_oz]
Kerry: the ontology should specify that the record of observation has a time
20:29:17 [krzysztof_j]
ack to all you said
20:30:13 [Holger]
ack krzysztof_j
20:30:49 [laurent_oz]
Krzysztof: challenge for sensors - they are the boundary of the real world and a world where we talk about models
20:31:02 [cory]
+q
20:31:15 [Holger]
ack cory
20:32:13 [laurent_oz]
Cory: if we look at how properties are interpreted depending on how we use observation - location of a record is diffewrent from location of the observation itself
20:32:19 [krzysztof_j]
ack
20:32:47 [krzysztof_j]
+q
20:34:21 [Holger]
ack krzysztof_j
20:34:34 [laurent_oz]
Kerry: need clarification on where to attach properties
20:35:32 [krzysztof_j]
the location is also produced by an observation
20:35:59 [krzysztof_j]
and hence lat/lon (or whatever) is also an observation record
20:36:19 [krzysztof_j]
therefore we can have information about the location of a real world observation in its observation record
20:37:09 [laurent_oz]
Kerry: "everything is an information" = overloading the observation concept
20:37:41 [krzysztof_j]
but isn't this the case for OGC's sensor systems, the gps is just part of a huger sensor system
20:37:51 [Payam]
+q
20:37:57 [laurent_oz]
correction: everything is an observation
20:38:09 [Holger]
ack Payam
20:38:57 [laurent_oz]
Payam: searching for the observation and searching for the sensors are the two main targets
20:38:57 [laurent_oz]
for the scope of the ontology
20:39:50 [cory]
+q
20:39:54 [michael]
+q
20:39:58 [Holger]
ack cory
20:40:16 [laurent_oz]
Holger: we need to make clear the linkage between the sensor and observation
20:41:02 [Holger]
ack michael
20:41:12 [laurent_oz]
Cory: we also have provenance as a use case: provenance - do we point at where the record comes from (is stored) or go back to the sensor
20:42:22 [laurent_oz]
Michael: looking at the last slide, we need to separate the abstract definition of the step and the record that at some time we've done these steps
20:43:19 [Payam]
+q
20:43:37 [Zakim]
-kerry
20:44:07 [Payam]
-q
20:44:09 [Zakim]
+kerry
20:44:53 [laurent_oz]
Holger: what we have in the ontology is not the"real world event obsrvation" - question to K. : observation as an event is the real world observation and we need to put what's corresponding to the record (the produced data) would be in another place
20:44:56 [Payam]
+q
20:45:54 [krzysztof_j]
+q
20:46:23 [michael]
observation has feature of interest, procedure etc - but they are restrictions on domains and range of properties, not observation
20:46:29 [Holger]
ack Payam
20:46:48 [michael]
this was because we haven't made a decision as to if they were defining aspects of an observation or things it may have
20:46:59 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:47:11 [michael]
yes
20:47:23 [laurent_oz]
- Payam understands Michael's separation of concepts - 3 parts
20:47:23 [laurent_oz]
Device itself
20:47:23 [laurent_oz]
the process it does
20:47:23 [laurent_oz]
The result
20:47:30 [Manfred_DERI]
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20:49:29 [krzysztof_j]
+q
20:50:53 [Payam]
The modelling could be done in layers
20:51:13 [Payam]
starting from the device which does the observation
20:51:29 [Payam]
then modelling the process and observation
20:52:02 [Payam]
the accuracy and other quality of information parameters could be added to this model in different layers later
20:52:14 [kerry]
I think K makes a good point: restrictions on the observation woud b cleaner than on the properties
20:52:58 [laurent_oz]
Krzysztof's question was on how we use restrictions (someValuesFrom vs. domain/range) and the level of reasoning support we want to have
20:53:33 [michael]
+q
20:53:49 [Holger]
ack krzysztof_j
20:54:17 [Holger]
ack michael
20:54:28 [laurent_oz]
Kerry also prefers the ontology design style where restriction are used locally
20:54:43 [laurent_oz]
Michael: we have made those commitments
20:55:30 [krzysztof_j]
+q
20:55:35 [Holger]
ack krzysztof_j
20:55:44 [laurent_oz]
Michael: Observation is defined by having those restrictions
20:57:39 [krzysztof_j]
ack
20:57:57 [laurent_oz]
Kerry: can we have a vote on our choice to use local restrictions?
20:58:28 [laurent_oz]
Rather than domain and range attached to properties
20:59:05 [krzysztof_j]
+1
20:59:19 [michael]
+q
20:59:23 [laurent_oz]
Kerry adding an exception for the datatype properties where the range is expected to be defined
21:00:48 [krzysztof_j]
maybe, but this is again about ontological commitments and i would always try to reduce them to a minimum
21:01:32 [laurent_oz]
Kerry notes that at this stage we have not used datatype properties
21:01:32 [laurent_oz]
but we may do so when we become more concrete
21:01:45 [Holger]
vote: preferred usage of local restrictions over global restrictions
21:01:57 [Payam]
+1
21:01:57 [laurent_oz]
+1
21:01:58 [krzysztof_j]
+1
21:02:00 [kerry]
+1
21:02:01 [cory]
+1
21:02:01 [Manfred_DERI]
+1
21:02:11 [michael]
+1
21:02:17 [Holger]
+1
21:02:51 [laurent_oz]
+q
21:02:53 [kerry]
+q
21:03:00 [michael]
-q
21:03:02 [Holger]
ack michael
21:03:21 [Holger]
ack laurent_oz
21:03:24 [krzysztof_j]
(i have to leave in 2min, sorry (I would like to do the DOLCE alignment))
21:03:43 [krzysztof_j]
this would be difficult
21:04:53 [laurent_oz]
Laurent: making the point that it would be good to leave the user having the choice to import DOLCE or not
21:05:25 [kerry]
+q
21:05:44 [Holger]
ack kerry
21:06:05 [laurent_oz]
Krzysztof: there are cases where the decision to import would create a class of external statements which would become tricky to manage (e.g. a property declared at the top level as transitive)
21:06:53 [krzysztof_j]
I will, thanks for all the comments!
21:06:59 [laurent_oz]
Kerry thinks that if we carefully manage it, we should not have problems as long as we repeat those statements which are also in DOLCE
21:07:08 [krzysztof_j]
cu
21:07:14 [Zakim]
-krzysztof_j
21:08:06 [laurent_oz]
Kerry will present what she has on device next week
21:08:40 [Manfred_DERI]
great!
21:09:17 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
21:09:17 [michael]
michael has left #ssn
21:09:18 [cory]
bye
21:09:18 [Zakim]
-Payam
21:09:20 [Arthur]
Arthur has left #ssn
21:09:20 [Zakim]
-Arthur
21:09:22 [Zakim]
-michael
21:09:32 [Holger]
zakim, bye
21:09:32 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Holger, Payam, kerry, Arthur, laurent_oz, michael, krzysztof_j, +1.937.775.aabb, [IPcaller]
21:09:32 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ssn
21:09:40 [Holger]
rrsagent, make log public
21:09:53 [Holger]
rrsagent, draft minutes
21:09:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-ssn-minutes.html Holger
21:10:03 [Holger]
rrsagent, bye
21:10:03 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items