IRC log of RDB2RDF on 2009-11-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:00:17 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF
- 17:00:17 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-irc
- 17:00:19 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 17:00:19 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #RDB2RDF
- 17:00:21 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 7322733
- 17:00:21 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start now
- 17:00:22 [trackbot]
- Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
- 17:00:22 [trackbot]
- Date: 24 November 2009
- 17:00:29 [mhausenblas]
- Chair: Ahmed
- 17:00:31 [li_ma]
- li_ma has joined #RDB2RDF
- 17:01:03 [mhausenblas]
- scribenick: Marcelo
- 17:01:07 [mhausenblas]
- (as of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/ScribeList)
- 17:02:09 [MacTed]
- Zakim, who's here?
- 17:02:09 [Zakim]
- SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has not yet started, MacTed
- 17:02:10 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see li_ma, Zakim, RRSAgent, soeren, Marcelo, Ashok, whalb, Ahmed, nunolopes, mhausenblas, jsequeda, mdean, Souri, ericP, MacTed, LeeF, trackbot, iv_an_ru
- 17:02:26 [MacTed]
- Zakim, this is 7322733
- 17:02:26 [Zakim]
- ok, MacTed; that matches SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM
- 17:02:31 [MacTed]
- Zakim, who's here?
- 17:02:31 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P13, Ashok_Malhotra, ??P16, +043316876aaaa, +7.791.000.0.aabb, +1.512.471.aacc, [IPcaller], +1.781.273.aadd, +1.603.897.aaee
- 17:02:33 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see li_ma, Zakim, RRSAgent, soeren, Marcelo, Ashok, whalb, Ahmed, nunolopes, mhausenblas, jsequeda, mdean, Souri, ericP, MacTed, LeeF, trackbot, iv_an_ru
- 17:02:56 [Zakim]
- + +1.508.358.aaff
- 17:03:11 [MacTed]
- Zakim, aadd is OpenLink_Software
- 17:03:11 [Zakim]
- +OpenLink_Software; got it
- 17:03:12 [MacTed]
- Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed
- 17:03:12 [MacTed]
- zakim, mute me
- 17:03:12 [Ashok]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 17:03:13 [Zakim]
- +MacTed; got it
- 17:03:14 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P13, Ashok_Malhotra, ??P16, +043316876aaaa, +7.791.000.0.aabb, +1.512.471.aacc, [IPcaller], MacTed (muted), +1.603.897.aaee, +1.508.358.aaff
- 17:03:17 [Zakim]
- MacTed should now be muted
- 17:03:23 [whalb]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 17:03:23 [Zakim]
- +whalb; got it
- 17:03:23 [angela_UNITN]
- angela_UNITN has joined #RDB2RDF
- 17:03:29 [jsequeda]
- Zakim, aacc is jsequeda
- 17:03:31 [Zakim]
- + +3539149aagg
- 17:03:31 [Zakim]
- +jsequeda; got it
- 17:03:39 [Souri]
- zakim, aaee is Souri
- 17:03:39 [Zakim]
- +Souri; got it
- 17:03:52 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, aagg is mhausenblas
- 17:03:52 [Zakim]
- +mhausenblas; got it
- 17:03:57 [Ahmed]
- thanks.
- 17:03:59 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, who's here?
- 17:03:59 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P13, Ashok_Malhotra, ??P16, whalb, +7.791.000.0.aabb, jsequeda, [IPcaller], MacTed (muted), Souri, +1.508.358.aaff, mhausenblas
- 17:04:02 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see angela_UNITN, li_ma, Zakim, RRSAgent, soeren, Marcelo, Ashok, whalb, Ahmed, nunolopes, mhausenblas, jsequeda, mdean, Souri, ericP, MacTed, LeeF, trackbot, iv_an_ru
- 17:04:10 [nunolopes]
- Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas
- 17:04:10 [Zakim]
- +nunolopes; got it
- 17:04:25 [Zakim]
- + +39.046.188.aahh
- 17:05:07 [mhausenblas]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2009Nov/0056.html
- 17:05:17 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 17:05:25 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:05:25 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 17:05:34 [Metatomix]
- Metatomix has joined #RDB2RDF
- 17:05:56 [Zakim]
- +??P30
- 17:06:48 [ericP]
- Zakim, please dial ericP-office
- 17:06:48 [Zakim]
- ok, ericP; the call is being made
- 17:06:48 [mhausenblas]
- regrets+ Harry
- 17:06:49 [Zakim]
- +EricP
- 17:07:06 [cygri]
- cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
- 17:07:19 [mhausenblas]
- regrets+ Ben
- 17:07:28 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, cygri is with mhausenblas
- 17:07:28 [Zakim]
- +cygri; got it
- 17:07:34 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, who is here
- 17:07:34 [Zakim]
- mhausenblas, you need to end that query with '?'
- 17:07:38 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, who is here?
- 17:07:38 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P13, Ashok_Malhotra, ??P16, whalb, +7.791.000.0.aabb, jsequeda, [IPcaller], MacTed (muted), Souri, +1.508.358.aaff, mhausenblas, +39.046.188.aahh, ??P30, EricP
- 17:07:41 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see cygri, Metatomix, angela_UNITN, li_ma, Zakim, RRSAgent, soeren, Marcelo, Ashok, whalb, Ahmed, nunolopes, mhausenblas, jsequeda, mdean, Souri, ericP, MacTed, LeeF,
- 17:07:43 [Zakim]
- mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes, cygri
- 17:07:45 [Zakim]
- ... trackbot, iv_an_ru
- 17:08:31 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION-15?
- 17:08:31 [trackbot]
- ACTION-15 -- Harry Halpin to make a draft scribelist on wiki -- due 2009-11-24 -- OPEN
- 17:08:31 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/15
- 17:08:39 [mhausenblas]
- close ACTION-15
- 17:08:39 [trackbot]
- ACTION-15 Make a draft scribelist on wiki closed
- 17:08:50 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION-16?
- 17:08:50 [trackbot]
- ACTION-16 -- Juan Sequeda to init DDL coverage on Wiki -- due 2009-11-24 -- OPEN
- 17:08:50 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/16
- 17:08:56 [mhausenblas]
- close ACTION-16
- 17:08:56 [trackbot]
- ACTION-16 Init DDL coverage on Wiki closed
- 17:09:12 [mhausenblas]
- ACTION-17?
- 17:09:12 [trackbot]
- ACTION-17 -- Michael Hausenblas to create an issue for vendor-specific data types -- due 2009-11-24 -- OPEN
- 17:09:12 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/17
- 17:09:25 [mhausenblas]
- continues - Michael is a slacker ;)
- 17:10:05 [mhausenblas]
- ISSUE-2?
- 17:10:05 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-2 -- R2RML serializations -- OPEN
- 17:10:05 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/2
- 17:10:29 [mhausenblas]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Liaisons
- 17:12:23 [Souri]
- Could you please put the URL for the slides on IRC?
- 17:12:25 [Marcelo]
- yes, but I need a bit of help
- 17:12:44 [jsequeda]
- http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jsequeda/UltrawrapPresentationW3CRDB2RDF.pdf
- 17:13:33 [Marcelo]
- slide #2
- 17:13:57 [Marcelo]
- goals of ultrawrap ..
- 17:14:17 [mhausenblas]
- s/yes, but I need a bit/Topic: Ultrawrap presentation
- 17:14:25 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:14:25 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 17:14:33 [Marcelo]
- automatically create SPARQL endpoints for legacy relational databases
- 17:14:49 [Marcelo]
- real-time consistency between relational and RDF
- 17:15:36 [Marcelo]
- slide #3
- 17:15:40 [mhausenblas]
- s/yes, but I need a bit of help/Topic: Ultrawrap presentation
- 17:15:43 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:15:43 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 17:15:58 [Marcelo]
- architecture of ultrawrap
- 17:16:11 [mhausenblas]
- s/Ultrawrap presentation of help/Ultrawrap presentation
- 17:16:20 [Souri]
- an alternative: SPARQL querying of relational data
- 17:16:21 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:16:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 17:16:24 [Marcelo]
- compite time ... create ontology and virtual triple store
- 17:16:40 [Marcelo]
- run time ... SPARQL to SQL
- 17:16:43 [Marcelo]
- slide #4
- 17:16:56 [Marcelo]
- architecture of ultrawrap
- 17:17:17 [Marcelo]
- slide #5 and #6
- 17:17:25 [Marcelo]
- first step of the architecture
- 17:17:55 [ericP]
- q+ to (eventually) ask about the differences between RDF and OWL access (SPARQL vs. OWL API?)
- 17:18:18 [Marcelo]
- putative ontology is created automatically from source relational schema
- 17:18:29 [mhausenblas]
- s/thanks./Topic: Admin
- 17:18:32 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:18:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 17:18:52 [Marcelo]
- who is taking? how can I know that?
- 17:19:00 [Souri]
- ashok
- 17:19:12 [Marcelo]
- slide #7
- 17:19:43 [Souri]
- +q
- 17:19:50 [Marcelo]
- first-order logic rules transform SQL DDL to OWL
- 17:20:23 [Marcelo]
- rules cover all possible combination from DDL
- 17:20:31 [Marcelo]
- slide #8
- 17:21:05 [Marcelo]
- articles where the approach of ultrawrap is described
- 17:21:23 [mhausenblas]
- ack ericP
- 17:21:23 [Zakim]
- ericP, you wanted to (eventually) ask about the differences between RDF and OWL access (SPARQL vs. OWL API?)
- 17:21:44 [mhausenblas]
- ack Souri
- 17:22:18 [mhausenblas]
- s/continues - Michael is a slacker ;)/Topic: Liaisons
- 17:22:26 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:22:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 17:22:50 [Marcelo]
- Souri: Do you read the data dictionary to get information about DDL?
- 17:23:23 [Marcelo]
- jsequeda: yes, we do
- 17:23:27 [Marcelo]
- slide #9
- 17:23:52 [Marcelo]
- Relational example about students and courses
- 17:24:17 [Marcelo]
- slide #11
- 17:24:35 [Marcelo]
- Proof of total coverage of all key combinations
- 17:24:39 [mhausenblas]
- s/Could you please put the URL for the slides on IRC?/Eric volunteers to take over RIF and OWL liaisons
- 17:24:45 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:24:45 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 17:24:47 [Marcelo]
- slide #12
- 17:25:33 [Marcelo]
- All possible combinations of keys and foreign keys are produced (described by a tree)
- 17:26:48 [Marcelo]
- All these combinations are considered by ultrawrap
- 17:27:13 [ericP]
- q?
- 17:28:16 [ericP]
- q+ to ask if any were degerate forms a la "i don't care if there are 0, 1 or more elts with this identifier"
- 17:29:49 [Marcelo]
- Ultrawrap rules are complete in the sense that considered all possible alternatives of keys and foreign keys
- 17:30:15 [Marcelo]
- This is shown in the DEXA paper mentioned in slide #8
- 17:30:56 [mhausenblas]
- ack ericP
- 17:30:56 [Zakim]
- ericP, you wanted to ask if any were degerate forms a la "i don't care if there are 0, 1 or more elts with this identifier"
- 17:32:48 [Souri]
- Are you talking about constraint violations in the actual data?
- 17:35:50 [Marcelo]
- slide #14
- 17:36:15 [Marcelo]
- the putative ontology is created from the data dictionary
- 17:36:54 [Marcelo]
- Ahmed: Could you please say a bit more about the rules?
- 17:37:46 [Zakim]
- -Ashok_Malhotra
- 17:37:56 [Souri]
- +q
- 17:38:06 [Marcelo]
- slide #15
- 17:38:21 [Marcelo]
- what is the quality of the putative ontology?
- 17:38:26 [Souri]
- -q
- 17:39:10 [Marcelo]
- If the quality is sufficient, just renaming is needed
- 17:39:47 [Marcelo]
- If it is not, putative ontology need to be mapped to a domain ontology
- 17:39:54 [Marcelo]
- slide #16
- 17:40:02 [Marcelo]
- virtual triple store
- 17:40:14 [Marcelo]
- represent relational data as triples
- 17:41:03 [Marcelo]
- virtual triple store uses a table with tree columns: subject, predicate and object
- 17:41:35 [Marcelo]
- it actually uses a table with five columns (include index values)
- 17:41:37 [Marcelo]
- slide #18
- 17:41:59 [Marcelo]
- example of a select statement that output triples
- 17:42:04 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:42:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 17:42:08 [Souri]
- +q
- 17:42:15 [Marcelo]
- zakim, who is taking?
- 17:42:15 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, Marcelo.
- 17:43:09 [Marcelo]
- thanks :-)
- 17:43:22 [MacTed]
- Marcelo - the voice you couldn't recognize was Orri
- 17:43:26 [Marcelo]
- slide #19
- 17:43:52 [Marcelo]
- triple view is a union of all the select statements that output triples
- 17:47:29 [Marcelo]
- slide #20
- 17:47:37 [Marcelo]
- SPARQL to SQL
- 17:47:39 [Marcelo]
- slide #21
- 17:48:05 [Marcelo]
- shows a naive translation of a SPARQL query into SQL
- 17:48:26 [Marcelo]
- it is a syntactic transformation
- 17:48:29 [Marcelo]
- this happens in run time
- 17:48:29 [angela_UNITN]
- angela_UNITN has joined #RDB2RDF
- 17:48:42 [Marcelo]
- slide #22
- 17:48:57 [Marcelo]
- SQL optimizer
- 17:49:01 [Marcelo]
- slide #23
- 17:49:45 [Souri]
- -q
- 17:50:00 [Marcelo]
- shows some examples of query optimization in the system
- 17:50:24 [Marcelo]
- slide #24
- 17:50:29 [Marcelo]
- shows the query plans
- 17:50:58 [Marcelo]
- .. triple view plan and optimal plan
- 17:53:05 [Souri]
- As I had indicated on 17-Nov-2009 meeting (see minutes) , we'd like very much to present our SQL-based approach on 01-Dec-2009
- 17:53:26 [mhausenblas]
- Souri, yes, we'll discuss this in AOB
- 17:53:40 [Souri]
- thanks michael
- 17:54:33 [Marcelo]
- slide #25
- 17:54:51 [Marcelo]
- summary of what happens in compile and run time
- 17:54:53 [Marcelo]
- slide #26
- 17:55:09 [Marcelo]
- shows experimental results
- 17:55:25 [Marcelo]
- running on Microsoft SQL Server
- 17:55:42 [Souri]
- Are these hot (back-to-back) runs?
- 17:56:44 [Marcelo]
- Test on BSBM on 1 million triples
- 17:58:09 [MacTed]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 17:58:09 [Zakim]
- MacTed should no longer be muted
- 17:58:45 [Marcelo]
- Comparison was made with Jena
- 17:59:29 [Marcelo]
- slide #27
- 17:59:30 [MacTed]
- Zakim, mute me
- 17:59:30 [Zakim]
- MacTed should now be muted
- 17:59:35 [Marcelo]
- Current work
- 17:59:55 [MacTed]
- so *most* of those numbers were calculated from published results ... only a couple were actually run
- 18:00:10 [Zakim]
- - +7.791.000.0.aabb
- 18:00:18 [Marcelo]
- Version 0 of the system was presented (query only the putative ontology)
- 18:00:33 [mhausenblas]
- Michael: Ultrawrap is faster than native SQL (Q5 and Q10)?
- 18:01:01 [Marcelo]
- I lost the phone connection
- 18:01:02 [mhausenblas]
- Topic: AOB
- 18:01:10 [Zakim]
- -??P30
- 18:01:14 [mhausenblas]
- scribenick: mhausenblas
- 18:01:16 [mhausenblas]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Initial_Round_of_Presentations
- 18:02:27 [mhausenblas]
- Michael: collision OKKAM and Oracle
- 18:02:42 [Zakim]
- - +1.508.358.aaff
- 18:05:40 [Zakim]
- +??P0
- 18:05:54 [Marcelo]
- I am back :-)
- 18:06:49 [mhausenblas]
- PROPOSAL: Oracle 1 Dec, Eric 8 DEc and OKKAM 15 dec
- 18:07:02 [Souri]
- +1
- 18:07:05 [angela_UNITN]
- +1
- 18:07:08 [Marcelo]
- +1
- 18:08:08 [mhausenblas]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 18:08:08 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 18:08:08 [Zakim]
- -??P16
- 18:08:10 [Zakim]
- -Souri
- 18:08:10 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller]
- 18:08:13 [Zakim]
- -whalb
- 18:08:14 [Zakim]
- - +39.046.188.aahh
- 18:08:14 [Zakim]
- -MacTed
- 18:08:15 [Zakim]
- -jsequeda
- 18:08:16 [mhausenblas]
- [adjourned]
- 18:08:17 [Zakim]
- -??P13
- 18:08:20 [Zakim]
- -mhausenblas
- 18:08:25 [mhausenblas]
- zakim, list attendees
- 18:08:25 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Ashok_Malhotra, +043316876aaaa, +7.791.000.0.aabb, +1.512.471.aacc, [IPcaller], +1.781.273.aadd, +1.603.897.aaee, +1.508.358.aaff, MacTed,
- 18:08:27 [Marcelo]
- Marcelo has left #rdb2rdf
- 18:08:28 [Zakim]
- ... whalb, +3539149aagg, jsequeda, Souri, mhausenblas, nunolopes, +39.046.188.aahh, EricP, cygri
- 18:08:33 [mhausenblas]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 18:08:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
- 18:08:38 [mhausenblas]
- zakim, bye
- 18:08:38 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were Ashok_Malhotra, +043316876aaaa, +7.791.000.0.aabb, +1.512.471.aacc, [IPcaller], +1.781.273.aadd, +1.603.897.aaee, +1.508.358.aaff,
- 18:08:38 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #rdb2rdf
- 18:08:42 [Zakim]
- ... MacTed, whalb, +3539149aagg, jsequeda, Souri, mhausenblas, nunolopes, +39.046.188.aahh, EricP, cygri
- 18:08:45 [mhausenblas]
- rrsagent, bye
- 18:08:45 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items