13:58:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
13:58:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-aapi-irc
13:58:08 <davidb_> davidb_ has joined #aapi
13:58:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
13:58:31 <Andi> zakim, this will be aapi
13:58:31 <Zakim> ok, Andi; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:41 <Andi> rrsagent, make logs public
13:58:55 <Andi> Scribe: Anid
13:58:59 <Andi> Scribe: Andi
13:59:12 <Andi> Meeting: AAPI
13:59:41 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)10:00AM has now started
13:59:49 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
14:01:11 <Zakim> + +1.617.588.aaaa - is perhaps harry
14:01:44 <janina> janina has joined #aapi
14:01:54 <janina> zakim, call janina
14:02:09 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
14:02:11 <Zakim> +Janina
14:02:52 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
14:03:03 <davidb> Zakim, Mozilla is David_Bolter
14:03:03 <Zakim> +David_Bolter; got it
14:03:04 <Zakim> -Janina
14:03:11 <janina> zakim, call janina
14:03:11 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
14:03:12 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
14:03:12 <Zakim> +Janina
14:04:04 <Tim> Tim has joined #aapi
14:04:22 <Zakim> -Janina
14:06:46 <janina> zakim, passcode?
14:06:46 <Zakim> the conference code is 2274 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), janina
14:07:16 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka
14:07:27 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #aapi
14:08:45 <Andi> topic: 3.4 Role Mapping
14:10:03 <Andi> DB: alertdialog - had problems with JAWS exposing as alert - so FF exposes as dialog
14:10:21 <Andi> DB: is there a concept of alertdialog on desktop
14:10:25 <Andi> CS: think so
14:11:28 <Andi> DB: screen readers were not expecting alert for any kind of dialog
14:14:02 <davidb> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472311
14:14:04 <Andi> bug - Cynthia - what is the expected behavior for alertdialog?
14:16:46 <Andi> article - "readonly" should be STATE_SYSTEM_READONLY (see "list" rolw)
14:16:57 <Andi> s/role/rolw/
14:17:16 <Andi> CS: why not also map "article" to "text"?
14:17:54 <Andi> SF: hint to screen readers to switch to document reading mode
14:18:29 <Zakim> -harry
14:19:35 <Andi> banner - BSTR - exposing as string as MSAA role
14:19:49 <Andi> CS: shouldn't put in normative spec a mapping that is considered an error in MSAA
14:20:02 <Andi> CS: could put in description - that's where people usually put random strings
14:20:49 <Andi> CS: UIA has ARIA role - can put anything in it
14:21:41 <Andi> CS: UA uses AriaRole property
14:22:02 <Andi> DB: need note for IA2 and ATK like the one for UIA at the bottom of the table
14:22:19 <Andi> CS: in table for UIA "string to AriaRole"
14:22:56 <Andi> CS: in MSAA, the convention is to put it in the Description field but not sure if we should put that in the spec
14:23:13 <Andi> AS: let's put it in the draft and see what kind of comments we get
14:24:03 <Andi> DB: putting it in MSAA Description is redundant with the other methods. Scares me a bit.
14:24:15 <Andi> CS: if Chrome decides to implement MSAA, what should they do?
14:24:23 <Andi> DB: they are implementing MSAA
14:25:34 <Andi> DB: maybe we should start a thread in XTECH
14:25:45 <Andi> bug - David - start the thread
14:26:35 <Andi> IA2 - map string to object attribute
14:26:58 <Andi> Move Masahiko note to text before the table - need equivalents for ATK and IA2
14:27:59 <Andi> object attribute for unmappable role xxx is "role=xxx"
14:29:19 <Andi> button - move oject attribute from MSAA to IA2 column
14:29:31 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
14:32:15 <Andi> columnheader - add AccessibleTable interface to IA2 column
14:33:23 <Andi> change != to "is not"
14:34:25 <Andi> CS: default role is editable text readonly
14:34:56 <Andi> complementary, contentinfo, and definition - should all map to the convention for passing strings
14:36:41 <Andi> DB: AT is relying on FF passing string as MSAA role even though it's not to spec
14:36:55 <Andi> DB: can't change without phasing it out somehow in cooperation with AT vendors
14:37:16 <Andi> DB: started before IAccessible2 and UIA were created
14:37:49 <Andi> CS: MS is not revisiting MSAA - want people to move to UIA
14:38:40 <Andi> document - add readonly
14:39:12 <Andi> to MSAA and ATK columns
14:40:05 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #aapi
14:41:58 <MichaelC_> MichaelC_ has joined #aapi
14:42:35 <davidb> for atk readonly we make sure not to expose ATK_STATE_EDITABLE
14:42:58 <Andi> list - ATK "don't expose ATK_EXTENDED_STATE_EDITABLE" - add this to all ATK columns where there is a "readonly" for MSAA
14:44:25 <Andi> listbox is exposed as menu if has a parent or is owned by combobox
14:44:44 <Andi> CS: HTML 5 commands work kind of like this - we want ARIA and HTML 5 to be similar
14:45:44 <Andi> DB: log - role that is a handy way to get a live region
14:46:20 <Andi> DB: like a table that is kind of an online chat - rows get added dynamically
14:46:42 <Andi> DB: experience is degraded unless use underlying markup
14:47:16 <Andi> DB: browser should expose what it would expose if role="log" was not there and add aria-live attribute
14:49:18 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:50:09 <Andi> CS: maybe this is a strong/native semantic thing - log should not override table
14:50:46 <Andi> CS: but if put it on a div, then it should change the role
14:51:11 <Andi> DB: use of log should be for making something live, not changing the role semantic
14:52:18 <Andi> CS: need a note - comments column - or footnote - if log is placed on something that has its own mapping, should not change
14:52:40 <Stevef> regrets for dropping off the call
14:52:45 <Andi> CS: if it's placed on something that doesn't have its own mapping, like div, maybe it does have a mapping, still open for discussion
14:52:56 <Andi> CS: in all cases, it makes it a live region
14:53:40 <Andi> CS: question is why does this even exist?
14:54:14 <Andi> DB: expose as live attribute - polite but not in the DOM
14:54:20 <Andi> CS: might make sense to add to DOM
14:54:40 <Andi> CS: why do we even need log? can just add aria-live attribute 
14:55:23 <Andi> JS: TPAC agenda - Monday - noon until break. Is that enough time?
14:55:43 <Andi> CS: not sure we have a quorum. Thinking it's better to use time for HTML mappings
14:56:16 <Andi> CS: if there's something else that needs to be talked about, that's a better use of the time
14:56:31 <Andi> CS: unless there's something the ARIA TF needs to talk to UAI TF
14:57:42 <Andi> bug - David - talk to ARIA TF about why we even need log
14:57:54 <Andi> DB: note that there is a similar HTML 5 element
14:59:12 <Zakim> -David_Bolter
14:59:13 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
14:59:14 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
14:59:16 <Andi> zakim, bye
14:59:16 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, +1.617.588.aaaa, Janina, David_Bolter, Cynthia_Shelly, Janina_Sajka, Tim_Boland
14:59:16 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
14:59:21 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-aapi-minutes.html Andi
15:01:07 <davidb> davidb has joined #aapi
16:27:13 <Andi> Andi has joined #aapi
17:57:26 <davidb_> davidb_ has joined #aapi
18:09:55 <Andi> Andi has left #aapi
20:12:27 <davidb> davidb has joined #aapi