IRC log of aapi on 2009-10-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:58:07 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-aapi-irc
13:58:08 [davidb_]
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13:58:19 [Zakim]
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13:58:31 [Andi]
zakim, this will be aapi
13:58:31 [Zakim]
ok, Andi; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:41 [Andi]
rrsagent, make logs public
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Scribe: Anid
13:58:59 [Andi]
Scribe: Andi
13:59:12 [Andi]
Meeting: AAPI
13:59:41 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(AAPI)10:00AM has now started
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+Andi_Snow_Weaver
14:01:11 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.588.aaaa - is perhaps harry
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zakim, call janina
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ok, janina; the call is being made
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+Janina
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+[Mozilla]
14:03:03 [davidb]
Zakim, Mozilla is David_Bolter
14:03:03 [Zakim]
+David_Bolter; got it
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-Janina
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zakim, call janina
14:03:11 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
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+Cynthia_Shelly
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+Janina
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-Janina
14:06:46 [janina]
zakim, passcode?
14:06:46 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2274 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), janina
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+Janina_Sajka
14:07:27 [MichaelC]
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14:08:45 [Andi]
topic: 3.4 Role Mapping
14:10:03 [Andi]
DB: alertdialog - had problems with JAWS exposing as alert - so FF exposes as dialog
14:10:21 [Andi]
DB: is there a concept of alertdialog on desktop
14:10:25 [Andi]
CS: think so
14:11:28 [Andi]
DB: screen readers were not expecting alert for any kind of dialog
14:14:02 [davidb]
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472311
14:14:04 [Andi]
bug - Cynthia - what is the expected behavior for alertdialog?
14:16:46 [Andi]
article - "readonly" should be STATE_SYSTEM_READONLY (see "list" rolw)
14:16:57 [Andi]
s/role/rolw/
14:17:16 [Andi]
CS: why not also map "article" to "text"?
14:17:54 [Andi]
SF: hint to screen readers to switch to document reading mode
14:18:29 [Zakim]
-harry
14:19:35 [Andi]
banner - BSTR - exposing as string as MSAA role
14:19:49 [Andi]
CS: shouldn't put in normative spec a mapping that is considered an error in MSAA
14:20:02 [Andi]
CS: could put in description - that's where people usually put random strings
14:20:49 [Andi]
CS: UIA has ARIA role - can put anything in it
14:21:41 [Andi]
CS: UA uses AriaRole property
14:22:02 [Andi]
DB: need note for IA2 and ATK like the one for UIA at the bottom of the table
14:22:19 [Andi]
CS: in table for UIA "string to AriaRole"
14:22:56 [Andi]
CS: in MSAA, the convention is to put it in the Description field but not sure if we should put that in the spec
14:23:13 [Andi]
AS: let's put it in the draft and see what kind of comments we get
14:24:03 [Andi]
DB: putting it in MSAA Description is redundant with the other methods. Scares me a bit.
14:24:15 [Andi]
CS: if Chrome decides to implement MSAA, what should they do?
14:24:23 [Andi]
DB: they are implementing MSAA
14:25:34 [Andi]
DB: maybe we should start a thread in XTECH
14:25:45 [Andi]
bug - David - start the thread
14:26:35 [Andi]
IA2 - map string to object attribute
14:26:58 [Andi]
Move Masahiko note to text before the table - need equivalents for ATK and IA2
14:27:59 [Andi]
object attribute for unmappable role xxx is "role=xxx"
14:29:19 [Andi]
button - move oject attribute from MSAA to IA2 column
14:29:31 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
14:32:15 [Andi]
columnheader - add AccessibleTable interface to IA2 column
14:33:23 [Andi]
change != to "is not"
14:34:25 [Andi]
CS: default role is editable text readonly
14:34:56 [Andi]
complementary, contentinfo, and definition - should all map to the convention for passing strings
14:36:41 [Andi]
DB: AT is relying on FF passing string as MSAA role even though it's not to spec
14:36:55 [Andi]
DB: can't change without phasing it out somehow in cooperation with AT vendors
14:37:16 [Andi]
DB: started before IAccessible2 and UIA were created
14:37:49 [Andi]
CS: MS is not revisiting MSAA - want people to move to UIA
14:38:40 [Andi]
document - add readonly
14:39:12 [Andi]
to MSAA and ATK columns
14:40:05 [Stevef]
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14:41:58 [MichaelC_]
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14:42:35 [davidb]
for atk readonly we make sure not to expose ATK_STATE_EDITABLE
14:42:58 [Andi]
list - ATK "don't expose ATK_EXTENDED_STATE_EDITABLE" - add this to all ATK columns where there is a "readonly" for MSAA
14:44:25 [Andi]
listbox is exposed as menu if has a parent or is owned by combobox
14:44:44 [Andi]
CS: HTML 5 commands work kind of like this - we want ARIA and HTML 5 to be similar
14:45:44 [Andi]
DB: log - role that is a handy way to get a live region
14:46:20 [Andi]
DB: like a table that is kind of an online chat - rows get added dynamically
14:46:42 [Andi]
DB: experience is degraded unless use underlying markup
14:47:16 [Andi]
DB: browser should expose what it would expose if role="log" was not there and add aria-live attribute
14:49:18 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
14:50:09 [Andi]
CS: maybe this is a strong/native semantic thing - log should not override table
14:50:46 [Andi]
CS: but if put it on a div, then it should change the role
14:51:11 [Andi]
DB: use of log should be for making something live, not changing the role semantic
14:52:18 [Andi]
CS: need a note - comments column - or footnote - if log is placed on something that has its own mapping, should not change
14:52:40 [Stevef]
regrets for dropping off the call
14:52:45 [Andi]
CS: if it's placed on something that doesn't have its own mapping, like div, maybe it does have a mapping, still open for discussion
14:52:56 [Andi]
CS: in all cases, it makes it a live region
14:53:40 [Andi]
CS: question is why does this even exist?
14:54:14 [Andi]
DB: expose as live attribute - polite but not in the DOM
14:54:20 [Andi]
CS: might make sense to add to DOM
14:54:40 [Andi]
CS: why do we even need log? can just add aria-live attribute
14:55:23 [Andi]
JS: TPAC agenda - Monday - noon until break. Is that enough time?
14:55:43 [Andi]
CS: not sure we have a quorum. Thinking it's better to use time for HTML mappings
14:56:16 [Andi]
CS: if there's something else that needs to be talked about, that's a better use of the time
14:56:31 [Andi]
CS: unless there's something the ARIA TF needs to talk to UAI TF
14:57:42 [Andi]
bug - David - talk to ARIA TF about why we even need log
14:57:54 [Andi]
DB: note that there is a similar HTML 5 element
14:59:12 [Zakim]
-David_Bolter
14:59:13 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow_Weaver
14:59:14 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
14:59:16 [Andi]
zakim, bye
14:59:16 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, +1.617.588.aaaa, Janina, David_Bolter, Cynthia_Shelly, Janina_Sajka, Tim_Boland
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/13-aapi-minutes.html Andi
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