IRC log of au on 2009-09-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:59:57 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
19:59:57 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-irc
20:00:02 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
20:00:02 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
20:00:11 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
20:00:35 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0048.html
20:00:45 [Jan]
Regrets: Jeanne S., Anne M.
20:02:27 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
20:02:34 [Zakim]
+??P0
20:04:30 [Andrew]
Andrew has joined #au
20:04:44 [Zakim]
+??P1
20:05:54 [Zakim]
+??P2
20:11:05 [Jan]
Scribe: Andrew
20:11:13 [Jan]
zakim, ??P0 is really Jan
20:11:13 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
20:11:21 [Jan]
zakim, ??P1 is really Jutta
20:11:21 [Zakim]
+Jutta; got it
20:11:27 [Jan]
zakim, ??P2 is really Andrew
20:11:27 [Zakim]
+Andrew; got it
20:11:32 [Jan]
Chair: Jutta Treviranus
20:11:41 [Jan]
Regrets: Jeanne S., Anne M., Greg P.
20:12:55 [Zakim]
-Jan
20:13:17 [Zakim]
-Jutta
20:13:42 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:14:03 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
20:14:03 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
20:14:19 [Jan]
Jan is back with a clear connection
20:14:20 [Zakim]
-Andrew
20:15:13 [Zakim]
+ +1.416.946.aaaa
20:15:39 [Zakim]
+??P2
20:16:18 [Jan]
zakim, ??p2 is really Andrew
20:16:18 [Zakim]
+Andrew; got it
20:17:32 [Jan]
andrew can you hear Jutta ok?
20:17:59 [Andrew]
Yes i can Jutta ok
20:18:25 [Zakim]
-Jan
20:19:04 [Zakim]
+Jan_Richards
20:19:05 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
20:20:32 [Jan]
Topic: Andrew's comments
20:20:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.561.582.aabb
20:20:35 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0056.html
20:20:51 [Jan]
AR: Editorial change in B.1.2.4
20:22:19 [Jan]
AR: Also an example for Guideline B.1.3
20:22:47 [Jan]
Action AR: Writeup modified example for Guideline B.1.3
20:22:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-186 - Writeup modified example for Guideline B.1.3 [on Andrew Ronksley - due 2009-09-21].
20:23:10 [Andrew]
Topic: TIm's Comments
20:23:36 [Jan]
Topic: Tim's technique comments
20:23:39 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2009JulSep/0051.html
20:24:25 [Andrew]
Looking at Jan's responses to Tim's comments
20:24:55 [Andrew]
Agree on meta comments
20:25:02 [Sueann]
Sueann has joined #au
20:25:30 [Andrew]
JR: Suggest changing the techniques document to be called an "understanding" document
20:26:09 [Andrew]
JR: Not sure we have the manpower to produce a full techniques document ourselves
20:26:37 [Andrew]
TB: We should try and encourage creativity by allowing people to submit techniques, in-line with WCAG 2.0
20:26:52 [Andrew]
JT: This makes a lot of sense.
20:27:25 [Andrew]
JR: Very hard to write all encompassing techniques
20:28:20 [Andrew]
JR: Techniques will depend on the nature of the tool
20:29:12 [Jan]
Action JR: New explanatory text about what Examples are suppoised to acheive
20:29:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-187 - New explanatory text about what Examples are suppoised to acheive [on Jan Richards - due 2009-09-21].
20:30:36 [Andrew]
TB: WCAG has an online techniques submission form
20:31:26 [Andrew]
TB: How do we make a decision as to what goes in the techniques / understanding document?
20:31:35 [Andrew]
JR: Our common sense
20:31:55 [Andrew]
TB: Think we need more of a formal approach to this.
20:32:21 [Andrew]
TB: Are the group going to be endorsing the techniques
20:32:32 [Andrew]
TB: And do we need a disclaimer etc?
20:33:06 [Andrew]
TB: If we do have a techniques form we need to state what we're looking for etc
20:33:47 [Andrew]
TB: Tools can change so we need to be current
20:34:04 [Andrew]
JR: Agreed but some stay consistent as time goes by, e.g. text editors
20:35:04 [Andrew]
JT: The distinction between intent and rationale isn't that well defined
20:35:33 [Andrew]
JR: It's a fine distinction, we may merge them together
20:36:04 [Andrew]
JR: We may move the rationale into the understanding document
20:36:18 [Andrew]
JT: Think we'd need to be careful with that
20:36:43 [Andrew]
JT: Only having normative information in the guidelines wouldn't aid understanding
20:36:48 [Andrew]
JR: Agrees
20:37:36 [Jan]
Action JR: Propose what to so with Rationale - keep in Guideline but maybe word as intent
20:37:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-188 - Propose what to so with Rationale - keep in Guideline but maybe word as intent [on Jan Richards - due 2009-09-21].
20:41:16 [Andrew]
TB: Querying use of the word "documentation"
20:41:33 [Andrew]
TB: Some documentation can be bad and doesn't aid understanding
20:41:58 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2009/ED-ATAG20-TECHS-20090909/#gl-tool-document
20:54:14 [Andrew]
JT: Discussing decision support within tools, which is different to providing documentation and help
20:54:54 [Andrew]
JT: When you're choosing a technology, brief guidance about the implications
20:55:19 [Andrew]
JR: Dreamweaver. Choosing between HTML and XML. How much would Dreamweaver say?
20:59:39 [Andrew]
JR: Choosing a Flash video for example, there would be a lot of info that might be required
20:59:56 [Andrew]
JR: I.e. captions, audio description etc
21:01:06 [Andrew]
JR: We can't really throw all of WCAG / ATAG at the user
21:01:14 [Andrew]
JR: There needs to be some bounds
21:01:47 [Jan]
JT: Maybe define decision support - to mean just a few points
21:01:54 [Andrew]
JT: We can explain in the "decision support" definition
21:02:03 [Jan]
JT: Tips or short impact statements
21:02:06 [Andrew]
JT: And define some short impact statements there
21:02:32 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
21:02:43 [Zakim]
- +1.561.582.aabb
21:02:47 [Zakim]
-Jan_Richards
21:02:49 [Zakim]
- +1.416.946.aaaa
21:02:55 [Jan]
Next call Sept 21
21:02:57 [Zakim]
-Andrew
21:02:58 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
21:03:00 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jan, Jutta, Andrew, +1.416.946.aaaa, Jan_Richards, Tim_Boland, +1.561.582.aabb
21:03:13 [Andrew]
Andrew has left #au
21:03:14 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:03:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-minutes.html Jan
21:03:22 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
21:03:28 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
21:03:28 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
21:03:35 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
21:03:35 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-actions.rdf :
21:03:35 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AR to Writeup modified example for Guideline B.1.3 [1]
21:03:35 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-irc#T20-22-47
21:03:35 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to New explanatory text about what Examples are suppoised to acheive [2]
21:03:35 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-irc#T20-29-12
21:03:35 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Propose what to so with Rationale - keep in Guideline but maybe word as intent [3]
21:03:35 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/14-au-irc#T20-37-36