15:10:38 RRSAgent has joined #aapi 15:10:38 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/12-aapi-irc 15:10:44 rrsagent, make log world 15:10:53 Andi has joined #aapi 15:10:56 meeting: ARIA User Agent Implementation Task Force 15:10:59 scribe: Andi 15:11:42 MC: Intro - if read ARIA-PRIMER, know how things work. Should at least summarize concept of ATs 15:13:01 CS: somebody implementing this in a browser would be expected to have read WAI-ARIA spec 15:13:37 MC: Don't want to set up something where people have to keep flipping back and forth in the specs 15:14:48 CS: get some of the relevant information from the PRIMER 15:15:27 CS: Add more about why someone would do this - goals for user experience 15:15:53 CS: making something look more like a desktop application than a Web page 15:16:11 Web application that is as rich as a desktop application 15:16:54 CS: to submit text/thoughts in a bug 15:17:36 topic: Section 1.1 15:18:21 MC: first sentence - remove "and behavior" 15:18:39 -David_Bolter 15:19:00 +??P1 15:19:40 zakim, ??P1 is David_Bolter 15:19:40 +David_Bolter; got it 15:19:53 DB: DOM is just the state of the elements 15:20:15 CS: element name describing what each thing is and the relationship between them 15:20:34 DB: change "behavior" to "state" 15:21:10 CS: there are names for the APIs used to manipulate the DOM 15:22:00 DB: looking up what they are called 15:22:49 MC: everything after the first paragraph seems too detailed for the introduction - move to its own section in the document 15:23:18 MC: previous comment was about section 1.2 15:24:09 MC: in section 1.3, add styling information about MUSTs and SHOULDs - copy from WAI-ARIA spec 15:25:12 CS: WAI-ARIA has no support for events and support for actions is pretty light - need to add something after the number bullets in section 1 15:25:58 CS: browsers don't have to map to API for ATs to work - most use DOM - but to make it work like a desktop app they do 15:26:10 MichaelC has joined #aapi 15:27:17 CS: section 1.1, last paragraph before the bulleted list, last sentence - some HTML elements have semantics built in - don't "have" to have ARIA 15:27:35 CS: separate MSAA and IA2 15:27:44 UIA is supported on both Windows and Linux 15:28:59 CS: first para, add the accessible tree contains both the chrome of the user agent and the document 15:29:28 CS: sentence that talks about firing an accessible event, not sure how well that works with ARIA 15:29:32 DB: we do do it 15:29:51 no change 15:30:27 change example to "may not" 15:31:44 CS: section 1.2, second bullet - change to MUST 15:32:18 CS: only SHOULDs in UAIG should correspond to SHOULDs in WAI-ARIA spec 15:32:27 topic: section 2 15:33:09 MC: shouldn't have specific references to user agents - remove references to IE 15:33:50 CS; seems like author advice - maybe the BP doc should give that kind of information 15:34:22 CS: number of places where there is author information - we need to examine to see if there is something relevant to UAI that we need to include 15:35:55 MC: section 2.1, bullet 3 - remove sub-bullets from HTML spec because this may change 15:36:09 MC: summarize and then reference the HTML spec 15:37:50 MC: bullet 5 (focus and blur) - change SHOULD to MUST 15:38:52 MC: bullet 7 (:focus) seems like a WCAG compliance issue - may not need 15:39:13 CS: may need a section on what the default style sheet should contain for ARIA 15:39:21 add a bug for this 15:40:06 MC: bullet 8 (keydown) - everything after first sentence is product specific 15:40:12 CS: move into a footnote or a FAQ 15:40:44 MC: "where appropriate" needs to be defined 15:40:53 DB: "for any focusable element"? 15:41:13 add a bug to figure out what we mean 15:42:00 CS: section 2, first sentence on the first step is a little strong 15:42:31 add a bug - need a section on activation 15:43:15 CS: section 2.1 - what's being described as not working in HTML 4 has always worked in IE - may confuse people 15:44:05 change to "early versions of browsers" 15:45:20 CS: remove HTML 4 para, remove "essentially" from next paragraph, add sentence to "essentially" para that says this is not supported in older browsers and HTML4 15:46:01 CS: remove reference to IE 5.5 15:46:42 CS: section 2.1, bullet 2, example of platform order 15:47:15 CS: bullet 12, define activation behavior 15:48:46 MC: section 2.2 - bullet 4a - not sure last sentence is right 15:49:38 DB: can't really be sure which elements that are children of an element with aria-activedescendent are actually focusable 15:50:05 CS: could be a with a @tabindex on it? 15:51:30 add a bug to work through the aria-activedescendent scenario 15:52:01 DB: look at BP guide 15:52:20 CS: browser needs to handle when authors have done it incorrectly 15:52:51 MC: bullet 5 should be a MUST 15:53:28 CS: worry about aria-activedescendent focus and how it might not be the same as desktop focus - comment for WAI-ARIA 15:54:36 DB: web developer wants to have all keyboard handling on the container - all keypresses go to the container 15:55:58 MichaelC has joined #aapi 15:56:32 CS: last sentence, do we need to say anything about scrollIntoView? 15:57:31 CS: user agents "may" call scrollIntoView? 15:58:25 DB: found that scrollIntoView is not implemented the same everywhere 16:00:10 add to the bug that scrolling into view of focused active descendent needs to be part of the scenario 16:01:19 MC: section 2.3 - first para - API specifics need to be called out in a table 16:01:39 CS: goes in 3, probably in 3.5 16:02:07 MC; 2nd bullet - what happens if it's unsuccessful 16:06:35 zakim, bye 16:06:35 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, Cynthia_Shelly, Cooper, David_Bolter, Janina 16:06:35 Zakim has left #aapi 16:06:52 rrsagent, make minutes 16:06:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/12-aapi-minutes.html Andi 16:39:28 MichaelC has joined #aapi 17:55:38 Andi has left #aapi