IRC log of forms on 2009-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:49:28 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #forms

14:49:28 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-forms-irc

14:49:30 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:49:30 [Zakim]

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14:49:32 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be HTML_Forms

14:49:32 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see HTML_Forms()10:45AM scheduled to start 4 minutes ago

14:49:33 [trackbot]

Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference

14:49:33 [trackbot]

Date: 13 May 2009

14:49:43 [nick]

zakim, code?

14:49:43 [Zakim]

the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), nick

14:50:52 [Zakim]

HTML_Forms()10:45AM has now started

14:50:59 [Zakim]

+Nick_van_den_Bleeken

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14:53:03 [John_Boyer]

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14:53:04 [Zakim]

+unl

14:53:10 [Zakim]

+John_Boyer

14:53:18 [unl]

zakim, mute me

14:53:19 [Zakim]

unl should now be muted

14:54:34 [nick]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009May/0024.html

14:54:53 [John_Boyer]

John_Boyer has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009May/0024.html

14:55:12 [John_Boyer]

zakim, who is here?

14:55:12 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Nick_van_den_Bleeken, unl (muted), John_Boyer

14:55:13 [Zakim]

On IRC I see John_Boyer, unl, Zakim, RRSAgent, nick, wiecha, Steven, markbirbeck, trackbot

14:56:05 [John_Boyer]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009May/0024.html

14:56:10 [John_Boyer]

Chair: John

14:56:22 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

14:56:22 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:56:24 [Zakim]

+Steven

14:58:52 [John_Boyer]

scribe: Nick

14:59:01 [John_Boyer]

scribenick: nick

15:01:31 [unl]

hixie's proposal is at http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-May/019681.html

15:02:38 [Zakim]

+[IBM]

15:02:44 [wiecha]

zakim, [IBM] is wiecha

15:02:44 [Zakim]

+wiecha; got it

15:04:31 [nick]

Topic: XForms 1.1 Implementation report

15:04:53 [nick]

XSLTForms to list of implementations http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2009Apr/0002.html

15:05:06 [nick]

John: Steven cqn you contqct them

15:06:22 [nick]

Nick: Steven can you ask them to provide us the standard test suite results XML

15:06:44 [nick]

... if they want to be included in the implementation report

15:07:06 [unl]

s/cqn/can/

15:07:21 [nick]

John: They just want to be listed as an implementation

15:07:25 [unl]

s/contqct/contact/

15:08:11 [nick]

Steven: OK I will contact them, and ask if they will run the test suite

15:08:31 [Steven]

Done

15:08:43 [John_Boyer]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2009Mar/0000.html

15:08:48 [nick]

Steven: Sent the email

15:09:31 [nick]

TOPIC: None XML content in xf:instance

15:10:21 [nick]

John: The src attribute is resolved first, if absent then we look at in-line content, if not we look at resource,

15:10:50 [nick]

John: You might to include white space or a comment as in-line content

15:11:16 [nick]

... if the in-line content is other then empty content we try parse

15:11:51 [nick]

Nick: The in-line content is already parsed

15:12:12 [Steven]

s/other then/other than/

15:12:23 [nick]

John: I mean it just checks if the content is a valid document (only one element)

15:12:43 [nick]

... if not we fail the process

15:13:56 [nick]

John: Can we ignore it for now, or maybe even for the future

15:14:31 [John_Boyer]

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.1/index-diff.html#structure-model-instance

15:14:41 [nick]

Nick: Do we specify what 'empty' is? Maybe we can tread white space and/or comment nodes as empty

15:15:35 [unl]

s/tread/treat/

15:16:24 [nick]

(Reading the spec)

15:19:46 [nick]

John: in-line content is well defined in the XML spec, so white space and/or comment nodes will be seen as in-line content

15:22:27 [nick]

john elaborates about the difference between an end tag on the same line and the next line

15:24:22 [nick]

nick: It might be hard for someone to realize what the problem is

15:25:40 [nick]

nick: We don't need to fix it now, but maybe for the future, if the rest of the group thinks it isn't that a big deal it is fine for me

15:26:17 [nick]

(group decides __not__ to put it on the future features list

15:27:23 [nick]

Steven: I will send an e-mail thanking him for the comment, but that we will not change the spec because it is to late, and the error will be clear

15:27:52 [nick]

... the processing rules will be easier, bcz we can use the XML definition of content

15:28:33 [nick]

Topic: Updating FF Plugin report for 8.1.6.b

15:28:38 [nick]

Nick: This is done

15:28:46 [nick]

Topic: Problem with interpreting xsi:nil

15:29:06 [wiecha]

http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#model-prop-required

15:29:09 [nick]

Charlie: Look at section 6.1.3

15:30:38 [nick]

(Charlie walks us through the spec)

15:31:25 [nick]

... Explains what xsi:nil means

15:31:47 [John_Boyer]

A schema may indicate that an element is "nillable", at which point an element may have xsi:nil is true when the element content is empty

15:33:04 [nick]

Charly: rule 2 can't be true for xsi:nill equal to true if schema rules are applied

15:33:30 [nick]

s/Charly/Charlie/

15:35:54 [nick]

John: We wanted to define what non empty means, the additional statement about xsi:nil was added to clarify that an element with xsi:nil to true with empty content doesn't satisfy the required property.

15:37:25 [nick]

John: I understand that it is hard test, because you can't pass schema validation for xsi:nil to true and have content

15:38:01 [nick]

Charlie: We don't want to change the meaning of required, to allow xsi:nil to true as required

15:38:23 [nick]

s/as required/as passing the required contsraint/

15:42:02 [nick]

John: What is the purpose of the required property?Is it that the user has to answer a question, or has to answer it with a none-empty string (like it is now)

15:47:06 [nick]

Charlie: We should change point 1 to a note

15:48:18 [nick]

... explain that xsi:nil has no impact on the required property

15:49:07 [nick]

John: Steven can we treat this as an editorial note

15:49:17 [nick]

Steven: yes

15:49:55 [nick]

Charlie: Still concerned about how xsi:nil is treated in XForms

15:51:35 [John_Boyer]

Action: John to write clarifying note in 6.1.3 to explain the non-impact of xsi:nil true on the definition of required MIP, rather than having the two rules for non-empty definition

15:51:35 [trackbot]

Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John

15:51:35 [trackbot]

Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

15:53:42 [nick]

ACTION: Nick to remove test 6.1.3.b and update the implentation reports

15:53:42 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-540 - Remove test 6.1.3.b and update the implentation reports [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2009-05-20].

15:54:35 [nick]

John: So we only need to make the changes for targetid and targetref

15:54:54 [nick]

Topic : Test suite changes

15:55:03 [unl]

not yet

15:55:05 [unl]

sorry

15:55:08 [unl]

next week

15:55:14 [nick]

John: Did you add the license to the test suite

15:55:18 [nick]

Nick: Yes

15:55:32 [unl]

yes

15:55:43 [nick]

John: Uli did you fixed to non XMLnes of the test suite

15:56:00 [nick]

Uil: no will do for next week

15:56:19 [nick]

s/Uil/Uli/

15:57:13 [nick]

John: We will knock down the targetid and targetref this week

15:57:38 [Zakim]

-wiecha

15:57:46 [nick]

TOPIC: FtF agenda and rechartering

15:59:14 [nick]

Steven: Regarding the FtF there would be an XForms event, but it is only an evening event, this my give me a problem for traveling

15:59:30 [nick]

John: I'm concerned that we will get a good turnup

16:01:42 [nick]

Nick: can't commit at coming to the FtF at this moment

16:02:09 [nick]

John: Mark will turn up, the evening event will be enough for Charlie, but that is three

16:02:26 [nick]

John: Should we decide for doing a virtual FtF

16:02:54 [nick]

Steven: If we are only with 3-4 is it worth the travel

16:03:08 [nick]

John: Steven can you attend a virtual FtF

16:03:39 [nick]

Steven: Yes, no problem, I surely can attend a virtual FtF

16:03:46 [unl]

zakim, unmute me

16:03:47 [Zakim]

unl should no longer be muted

16:04:15 [nick]

Uli: I will come to the FtF

16:04:27 [nick]

Uli: I can attend a virtual FtF

16:05:29 [nick]

Steven: I think we need XForms 2 to get more members

16:06:51 [unl]

zakim, mute me

16:06:51 [Zakim]

unl should now be muted

16:07:10 [nick]

John: It is pretty big risk at this point to go for a real FtF

16:09:37 [nick]

John: I think we should switch to a virtual FtF

16:09:48 [nick]

John: It are the 5 hours

16:12:08 [nick]

John: We should go for a virtual FtF

16:12:24 [unl]

zakim, unmute me

16:12:24 [Zakim]

unl should no longer be muted

16:12:47 [nick]

John: OK then we are doing a virtual FtF

16:15:17 [Zakim]

-Nick_van_den_Bleeken

16:15:18 [Zakim]

-unl

16:15:19 [Zakim]

-Steven

16:15:20 [Zakim]

-John_Boyer

16:15:22 [Zakim]

HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended

16:15:23 [Zakim]

Attendees were Nick_van_den_Bleeken, unl, John_Boyer, Steven, wiecha

16:16:10 [John_Boyer]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:16:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer

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