14:35:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #backplane
14:35:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/31-backplane-irc
14:35:24 <wiecha> rrsagent, make logs public
14:35:33 <wiecha> Meeting: RWAB Telecon
14:35:41 <wiecha> Chair: Charlie Wiecha
14:35:50 <wiecha> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009Mar/0018.html
14:59:55 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has now started
15:00:02 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:00:06 <wiecha> zakim, [IBM] is wiecha
15:00:06 <Zakim> +wiecha; got it
15:00:36 <unl> unl has joined #backplane
15:01:42 <jackjansen> jackjansen has joined #backplane
15:02:33 <jackjansen> zakim, code?
15:02:34 <Zakim> the conference code is 7922 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jackjansen
15:03:09 <Zakim> +unl
15:03:44 <wiecha> i have a yugma session going...309-009-088
15:03:45 <Zakim> +??P77
15:03:54 <jackjansen> zakim, ??P77 is me
15:03:54 <Zakim> +jackjansen; got it
15:05:51 <wiecha> www.yugma.com
15:28:20 <wiecha> Scribe: wiecha
15:28:27 <wiecha> Topic: Review of SVG piechart
15:28:43 <wiecha> discussion of how the dynamic SVG is bundled into ubiquity
15:28:54 <wiecha> Jack: I think I would have packaged this quite differently
15:29:12 <wiecha> Jack: perhaps by creating a "piechart" tag and then binding that to the data model...and worked from there
15:29:39 <wiecha> Jack: this would allow also the use from within SMIL
15:29:51 <wiecha> Jack: animation to allow it to grow and expand
15:30:22 <jackjansen> calling in with nother phone.
15:30:37 <Zakim> -jackjansen
15:31:16 <Zakim> +Jack_Jansen
15:31:29 <jackjansen> zakim, jack_jansen is me
15:31:29 <Zakim> +jackjansen; got it
15:32:01 <wiecha> Jack: defined that the data model would have to have a specific shape and then attach the piechart to that
15:33:01 <wiecha> Charlie: treats the role attributes and their pattern (parent and child) to attach to an existing data model
15:33:18 <wiecha> Jack: comes at the expense of being tied to the xforms concept of repeat
15:33:30 <wiecha> Charlie: gets at "what is the backplane"
15:33:50 <wiecha> I'm arguing that the nodeset binding and repeat behavior are "backplane" not "forms" function
15:34:39 <wiecha> it provides bridging and data binding...the repeat is the projection of the model out to the view
15:35:35 <wiecha> Jack: so what xforms elements should be considered part of the core "backplane"?
15:35:53 <wiecha> Charlie: it's the two types of binding: single node and nodeset
15:36:01 <wiecha> and the event-driven update behavior
15:37:12 <wiecha> XForms repeats are a convenience layer to surface the nodeset binding but probably could be replaced by other types of elements that still consume nodeset binding
15:37:15 <wiecha> like Jack's piechart
15:37:26 <wiecha> Jack: +1
15:37:39 <wiecha> Jack: I meant the behavior not the elements themselves
15:38:31 <wiecha> Charlie: I think it's valid for language implementors to want to reuse xforms behavior like repeat or go off and do another element that still consumes nodeset binding if they like
15:39:03 <wiecha> Jack: we have single node and nodeset binding...do we need "if"?
15:39:24 <wiecha> Jack: e.g. a bit of XML code is present or not depending on values in the data model
15:39:29 <wiecha> Charlie: that sounds like relevance
15:39:31 <wiecha> Jack: yup
15:40:16 <wiecha> Charlie: maybe we should illustrate both approaches in our demo...a custom control and a custom element
15:40:35 <wiecha> Jack: the repeat function could be considered part of the backplane, yes
15:43:30 <wiecha> Topic: First page of the finance scenario application
15:43:36 <wiecha> Charlie: what should we include on the first page?
15:44:16 <wiecha> Charlie: perhaps just an overview of the current portfolio
15:44:22 <wiecha> Charlie: how could SMIL play there?
15:46:44 <wiecha> Charlie: perhaps use SMIL to control a wizard that configures the SVG charting...asks for stock symbol names and date ranges then displays the svg chart
15:48:37 <wiecha> Charlie: I would expect the google map would be surface similarly with a repeat over the data model
15:48:46 <wiecha> Jack: but if I want a map of a single location
15:49:57 <wiecha> Charlie: different markup, either single node binding or nodeset binding, could be used depending on the use case
15:50:02 <wiecha> Jack: could one markup do either?
15:50:45 <wiecha> Charlie: that's almost a "composite" object...with both single node binding for map center and nodeset binding for pinpoints
15:51:15 <wiecha> Charlie: could be done either as a ground around a single node binding element and a repeat
15:51:26 <wiecha> or with a custom element that has children giving both types of binding
15:52:18 <wiecha> Jack: could a group have role="output-proportional"?
15:52:37 <wiecha> Jack: meant role="output-map"
15:52:57 <wiecha> Jack: then inside the group have the parameters for lat/long and also the repeat over pinpoints
15:53:13 <wiecha> <group role="output-map">
15:53:32 <wiecha> <range role="map-centroid" ref="latlong"/>
15:53:51 <wiecha> <repeat role="pinpoints" nodeset="...">
15:53:57 <wiecha> <repeat-children/>
15:53:59 <wiecha> </repeat>
15:54:01 <wiecha> </group>
15:54:22 <wiecha> or do a custom element full stop with nodeset and ref bindings
15:54:33 <wiecha> Jack: advantage of these roles is that for accessibility this would be nicer
15:55:07 <wiecha> the fact that output-map is being shown by an actual map is an implementation detail...ARIA would just work against the coordinates
16:04:46 <Zakim> -unl
16:04:50 <Zakim> -wiecha
16:04:51 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has ended
16:04:53 <Zakim> Attendees were wiecha, unl, jackjansen
16:04:59 <wiecha> rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/31-backplane-minutes.html wiecha
16:05:18 <wiecha> wiecha has left #backplane
17:53:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #backplane