15:54:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #badtf
15:54:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-badtf-irc
15:54:42 <shadi> meeting: BAD TF
15:54:47 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Mar/0002.html
15:54:51 <shadi> chair: Shadi
15:54:59 <shadi> agenda?
15:56:17 <Tom> Tom has joined #badtf
15:56:59 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM has now started
15:57:06 <Zakim> +Tom
15:57:08 <Zakim> +Wilco
15:57:10 <Zakim> -Tom
15:57:12 <Zakim> +Tom
15:57:18 <Zakim> -Wilco
15:57:39 <eric> eric has joined #badtf
15:57:43 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
15:57:43 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
15:57:44 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:57:59 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:57:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tom, Shadi
15:58:39 <shadi> zakim, you are confused little bot! :)
15:58:39 <Zakim> I'm glad that smiley is there, shadi
15:58:47 <Zakim> +Eric
15:59:16 <Zakim> +Wilco
16:01:25 <maik_w> maik_w has joined #badtf
16:02:03 <mbertoni> mbertoni has joined #badtf
16:03:25 <Zakim> +Maik
16:04:12 <shadi> zakim, pick a victim
16:04:12 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shadi
16:04:30 <shadi> zakim, pick a victim
16:04:30 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Wilco
16:05:02 <shadi> scribe: Wilco
16:05:07 <shadi> agenda?
16:05:14 <Michael> Michael has joined #badtf
16:05:24 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:05:24 <Zakim> agendum 1. "In-Between pages" taken up [from shadi]
16:05:34 <shadi> http://fiers.name/badtf/inbetween_after.html
16:05:51 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Mar/0000
16:06:26 <Wilco> wilco: I'd like some feedback
16:06:48 <Zakim> +??P20
16:06:58 <Zakim> +??P18
16:07:05 <Wilco> tom: are we going to pick one example to annotate?
16:07:08 <mbertoni> zakim, ??P20 is mbertoni
16:07:08 <Zakim> +mbertoni; got it
16:07:32 <shadi> zakim, ? is Michael
16:07:32 <Zakim> +Michael; got it
16:12:10 <Wilco> shadi: how do we present annotations
16:12:43 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/features
16:13:06 <Wilco> shadi: we should not have all the issues on the page listed
16:14:07 <Wilco> shadi: we should try not to be repetitive
16:14:53 <Michael> zakim, mute me
16:14:53 <Zakim> Michael should now be muted
16:15:24 <Wilco> wilco: how about listing different elements and name their issues
16:16:06 <Wilco> shadi: lets take a tick and write down the fix
16:16:21 <Michael> zakim, unmute me
16:16:21 <Zakim> Michael should no longer be muted
16:16:22 <Wilco> shadi: and add a link to the respective technique
16:16:25 <mbertoni> agree
16:17:07 <Wilco> shadi: tom should make an exaustive evaluation
16:17:20 <Wilco> shadi: work with EO to get annotations
16:17:26 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/features
16:17:41 <Wilco> shadi: different types of barriers are listed
16:18:11 <Wilco> tom: do we want to include what we did for waiage
16:18:11 <Michael> q+
16:18:14 <Wilco> shadi: yes
16:18:48 <shadi> ack m
16:19:43 <Wilco> michael: propose make a link from annotations to feature issues, from there link to techniques
16:20:42 <Wilco> michael: we need a rough idea how to present it
16:20:57 <Wilco> shadi: agree
16:22:31 <Wilco> michael: in the list of issues mark those that we want to describe in annotations
16:22:32 <shadi> http://www.tomjewett.com/badtf/WCAG-techniques-table.html
16:23:49 <Wilco> wilco: i'll make a proposal
16:24:09 <Tom> q+
16:24:57 <shadi> action: wilco to improve the design of the annotations (to make them more descriptive rather than based on Success Criteria and Techniques)
16:25:00 <shadi> ack t
16:25:29 <Michael> zakim, mute me
16:25:29 <Zakim> Michael should now be muted
16:26:57 <Wilco> tom: how are we going to do the evaluation?
16:27:09 <Michael> zakim, unmute me
16:27:09 <Zakim> Michael should no longer be muted
16:27:28 <Michael> q+
16:27:51 <Wilco> shadi: the question is how to present the evaluation, they're not related to inbetween pages
16:28:23 <shadi> ack m
16:28:24 <Michael> ack m
16:29:14 <Wilco> michael: we should link from the annotation to the evaluation
16:29:25 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/features
16:30:03 <mbertoni> zakim, mute me
16:30:03 <Zakim> mbertoni should now be muted
16:30:07 <Wilco> shadi: people mght get confused
16:30:30 <Wilco> tom: i'll look into that
16:30:33 <shadi> http://fiers.name/badtf/inbetween_after.html
16:30:58 <mbertoni> zakim, unmute me
16:30:58 <Zakim> mbertoni should no longer be muted
16:31:57 <Wilco> all: looks nice
16:32:03 <mbertoni> agree
16:32:55 <Wilco> shadi: title and alt should be sufficient, no hover needed
16:33:29 <Wilco> tom: we don't need it
16:36:23 <Wilco> shadi: note that there is quite a lot of space to add information in the lightbox
16:37:23 <Michael> q+
16:37:46 <shadi> ack m
16:37:53 <Wilco> wilco: lets make clicking the background disable the dialog
16:37:58 <mbertoni> agree
16:38:35 <Michael> +1
16:39:11 <Michael> q+
16:39:22 <eric> q+
16:39:47 <shadi> ack m
16:40:01 <shadi> ack e
16:40:13 <eric> http://stockholm.se/
16:41:20 <Wilco> michael: add visual emph on elements that are tabbed at
16:41:38 <shadi> zakim, take up next
16:41:38 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Survey page" taken up [from shadi]
16:41:53 <shadi> http://www.semplicemente.org/_test/EOWG/BAD/form.html
16:42:01 <shadi> http://www.semplicemente.org/_test/EOWG/BAD/form_2.html
16:42:16 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-badtf/2009Mar/0001
16:44:06 <mbertoni> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.10
16:44:08 <Wilco> marco: agree with eric's comments on the page
16:45:24 <Wilco> marco: in the 1st version is semanticly wrong, because the questions aren't legends
16:47:00 <Wilco> wilco: the second version is more commonly used
16:47:15 <Wilco> marco: the repeating legend is a problem in the second version
16:47:37 <Michael> q+
16:47:54 <shadi> ack m
16:49:48 <Wilco> marco: jaws might be an older version
16:51:31 <eric> q+
16:51:49 <Wilco> marco: we should follow the html specifications of fieldset
16:52:22 <Michael> q+
16:53:25 <Wilco> michael: keep it in the old structure
16:54:44 <Wilco> michael: i think it's important for fieldsets to be in the places that add understanding
16:55:42 <Wilco> shadi: this page is really difficult
16:56:00 <shadi> ack e
16:56:00 <Wilco> shadi: the questions provide different types of challenges
16:56:13 <Wilco> eric: we could have fieldsets in fieldsets
16:57:08 <Wilco> marco: i'll redesign according to eric's suggestion
16:58:55 <Wilco> shadi: fieldsets in fieldsets doesn't show headings for screenreaders
16:59:25 <shadi> ack m
16:59:42 <Wilco> michael: we have to think about the structure of the form
17:01:07 <Wilco> marco: should we leave the first version, and go on from the 2nd?
17:01:17 <Wilco> shadi: continue experementing
17:02:07 <Zakim> -Michael
17:02:59 <shadi> agenda?
17:03:17 <shadi> zakim, agendum 5
17:03:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agendum 5', shadi
17:03:45 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 5
17:03:45 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Next meetings" taken up [from shadi]
17:03:50 <Wilco> tom: no need for comments on my table
17:03:58 <Wilco> shadi: we still need it
17:05:12 <Zakim> -Tom
17:05:15 <Zakim> -mbertoni
17:05:16 <Zakim> -Shadi
17:05:17 <Zakim> -Wilco
17:05:17 <Zakim> -Eric
17:05:19 <Wilco> Wilco has left #badtf
17:05:20 <Zakim> -Maik
17:05:22 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG(BAD TF)11:00AM has ended
17:05:23 <Zakim> Attendees were Tom, Wilco, Shadi, Eric, Maik, mbertoni, Michael
17:06:11 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
17:06:15 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
17:06:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-badtf-minutes.html shadi
17:06:18 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
17:06:27 <shadi> rssagent, bye
17:06:35 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
17:06:35 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-badtf-actions.rdf :
17:06:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: wilco to improve the design of the annotations (to make them more descriptive rather than based on Success Criteria and Techniques) [1]
17:06:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/04-badtf-irc#T16-24-57