IRC log of er on 2009-02-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:23:51 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #er
13:23:51 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/25-er-irc
13:23:53 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:23:55 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3794
13:23:55 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
13:23:56 [trackbot]
Meeting: Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group Teleconference
13:23:56 [trackbot]
Date: 25 February 2009
13:27:18 [MikeS]
MikeS has joined #er
13:28:19 [shadi]
zakim, call shadi-617
13:28:19 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; the call is being made
13:28:20 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has now started
13:28:21 [Zakim]
+Shadi
13:28:34 [Zakim]
+MikeS
13:28:36 [Zakim]
-MikeS
13:28:36 [Zakim]
+MikeS
13:28:45 [shadi]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2009Feb/0011.html
13:28:51 [shadi]
chair: MikeS
13:29:04 [shadi]
agenda+ Review of updated EARL 1.0 Schema
13:29:11 [JohannesK]
JohannesK has joined #er
13:29:17 [shadi]
agenda+ status of EARL requirements and EARL Guide documents
13:29:31 [shadi]
agenda+ Next and future meetings
13:29:35 [shadi]
agenda?
13:29:45 [shadi]
zakim, drop agendum 1
13:29:45 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Response to AWWSW comments on HTTP-in-RDF, dropped
13:29:48 [shadi]
zakim, drop agendum 2
13:29:48 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Next meetings, dropped
13:32:16 [shadi]
regrets: Johannes
13:32:37 [cvelasco]
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13:33:55 [Zakim]
+CarlosV
13:34:48 [JohannesK]
JohannesK has joined #er
13:35:40 [shadi]
scribe: Shadi
13:36:05 [shadi]
agenda?
13:36:33 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 3
13:36:33 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Review of updated EARL 1.0 Schema" taken up [from shadi]
13:37:08 [shadi]
MS: let's jump directly to the conformance section first
13:37:27 [shadi]
...thought it was helpful
13:37:31 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/WD-EARL10-Schema-20090223#conformance
13:38:11 [carlosI]
carlosI has joined #er
13:39:00 [shadi]
...separation between producers and consumers is important
13:39:11 [shadi]
...seems to be little difference between the two
13:39:20 [shadi]
CV: does the term validation make sense?
13:39:36 [Zakim]
+CarlosI
13:40:56 [cvelasco]
http://www.w3.org/TR/CCPP-struct-vocab/#Conformance
13:41:18 [shadi]
CV: CCPP does it differently
13:42:04 [shadi]
SAZ: MikeS had an action item, and confirmed that different specs define conformance differently
13:43:28 [shadi]
CV: they established first document conformance, then producers, then processors
13:44:14 [shadi]
...more fine grained
13:45:09 [shadi]
SAZ: validity term not an issue?
13:45:20 [shadi]
CV: CCPP also use it, should be ok
13:48:11 [shadi]
SAZ: an issue of organization, want more highlighting of the sections?
13:48:25 [shadi]
CV: yes, also address document conformance
13:48:43 [shadi]
SAZ: EARL is not necessarily a single document, rather data
13:49:43 [shadi]
SAZ: also Johannes raised an issue about unclarity of what producers/consumers should do
13:49:56 [JohannesK]
"Model conformance" instead of "Document confomance"?
13:49:57 [shadi]
...maybe also relates to formatting and organization
13:50:17 [shadi]
[suggestion: Data Conformance]
13:54:53 [shadi]
MS: separation between consumer and producer
13:55:29 [shadi]
SAZ: found that there is large overlap, although producers could be more minimal because they do not need to output all data
13:55:51 [shadi]
...but consumers should be able to process all data defined by this document
13:56:40 [shadi]
MS: maybe need to be spelled out more clearly
13:57:11 [shadi]
...or do the opposite, mention it briefly and see what comments come in
13:58:04 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/TR/CCPP-struct-vocab/#Conformance
13:58:54 [shadi]
CI: agree that current wording is a little vague
13:59:03 [shadi]
...not sure how to improve it
13:59:22 [shadi]
SAZ: going in the right direction?
13:59:29 [shadi]
CI: think so
14:00:36 [JohannesK]
What about the properties with no restrictions? Is a conforming EARL producer required to be able to support these properties?
14:02:38 [shadi]
SAZ: like to continue with this approach, seem to be on a right track
14:03:02 [shadi]
...could work on improving the organization and formatting
14:03:26 [shadi]
...think that we will need to look at the restrictions closely
14:03:52 [shadi]
...especially during Candidate Recommendation stage we may identify conflicts or unexpected situations
14:04:38 [shadi]
action: shadi to continue refining the conformance section by spelling out report, producer, and consumer conformance more clearly
14:04:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-78 - Continue refining the conformance section by spelling out report, producer, and consumer conformance more clearly [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2009-03-04].
14:07:12 [shadi]
SAZ: EARL producer does not have to generate optional properties
14:07:26 [shadi]
...would not be possible to check if they can actually support it
14:08:23 [shadi]
CV: would need a test file with an optional property, and see if the output also contains that property or if it has been dropped
14:09:39 [shadi]
SAZ: that is a new type of tool, like an aggregator
14:10:00 [shadi]
...it is a consumer and a producer at the same time
14:10:07 [JohannesK]
A person using that producer tool could check
14:10:30 [shadi]
...we could require these not to drop information from the input
14:14:51 [shadi]
MS: doesn't address the actual question
14:16:15 [shadi]
SAZ: could say producers MUST be able to generate all required properties, and SHOULD be able to generate the optional ones
14:17:48 [shadi]
CV: don't think this is real conformance, should be able to generate all
14:18:08 [shadi]
CI: why are the properties optional then?
14:18:49 [JohannesK]
because in sme cases they don't make sense
14:18:58 [JohannesK]
s/sme/some/
14:20:41 [shadi]
SAZ: seems like we may need something like partial conformance
14:21:11 [shadi]
...for example to encourage tools that only output certain type of information
14:21:31 [shadi]
MS: how do we define partial?
14:21:43 [shadi]
SAZ: tools that support any parts of EARL
14:21:59 [shadi]
MS: assertor without an assertion?
14:22:20 [shadi]
s/assertor without an assertion?/assertion without an assertor?
14:23:54 [shadi]
SAZ: could require that if a class is generated, all required properties must be supported
14:24:45 [shadi]
action: shadi to add information about aggregator tools and about partial conformance
14:24:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-79 - Add information about aggregator tools and about partial conformance [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2009-03-04].
14:25:18 [JohannesK]
Shall we add "Schema-aware processing is not required" to the consumer section like in CC/PP?
14:27:35 [shadi]
SAZ: was confused about redefining Domain and Range
14:27:49 [shadi]
...Ivan confirmed that it is not a redefinition
14:27:54 [shadi]
...it is ok to do
14:28:09 [shadi]
MS: so it gets multiple domain and ranges?
14:29:28 [shadi]
SAZ: yes, Johannes was right
14:29:55 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
14:29:55 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "status of EARL requirements and EARL Guide documents" taken up [from shadi]
14:30:09 [shadi]
MS: who is editor for the requirements?
14:30:29 [shadi]
SAZ: I was, never got round to it
14:30:39 [shadi]
...we have change requests since the f2f
14:30:46 [shadi]
MS: I could look at these
14:30:53 [shadi]
...what about the Guide?
14:31:04 [shadi]
CV: Johannes and I
14:31:12 [shadi]
...will work on it
14:31:31 [shadi]
MS: maybe provide something in 2 weeks from now?
14:31:34 [shadi]
CV: yes
14:31:39 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
14:31:39 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Next and future meetings" taken up [from shadi]
14:31:55 [Zakim]
-MikeS
14:31:57 [carlosI]
/quit
14:31:58 [Zakim]
-CarlosV
14:31:59 [shadi]
next meetings: 4 March, 11 March
14:32:07 [shadi]
trackbot, end meeting
14:32:07 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
14:32:07 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Shadi, MikeS, CarlosV, CarlosI
14:32:08 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:32:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/25-er-minutes.html trackbot
14:32:09 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
14:32:09 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/25-er-actions.rdf :
14:32:09 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shadi to continue refining the conformance section by spelling out report, producer, and consumer conformance more clearly [1]
14:32:09 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/25-er-irc#T14-04-38
14:32:09 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shadi to add information about aggregator tools and about partial conformance [2]
14:32:09 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/25-er-irc#T14-24-45
14:32:11 [Zakim]
-CarlosI