IRC log of owl on 2009-01-07
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:53:40 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #owl
- 17:53:40 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/07-owl-irc
- 17:54:08 [ewallace]
- Zakim, this will be owlwg
- 17:54:08 [Zakim]
- ok, ewallace; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
- 17:54:49 [ewallace]
- RRSAgent, make records public
- 17:56:37 [Zakim]
- SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
- 17:56:44 [Zakim]
- +Evan_Wallace
- 17:57:27 [pfps]
- pfps has joined #owl
- 17:57:49 [Zakim]
- +Peter_Patel-Schneider
- 17:57:52 [Zakim]
- -Evan_Wallace
- 17:57:53 [Zakim]
- +Evan_Wallace
- 17:58:18 [pfps]
- zakim, who is here?
- 17:58:18 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Evan_Wallace, Peter_Patel-Schneider
- 17:58:20 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see pfps, RRSAgent, Zakim, schneid, Rinke, alanr, IanH, sandro, ewallace, trackbot
- 17:58:47 [bcuencagrau]
- bcuencagrau has joined #owl
- 17:59:10 [Rinke]
- Rinke has left #owl
- 17:59:12 [MarkusK_]
- MarkusK_ has joined #owl
- 17:59:14 [Zakim]
- +Alan_Ruttenberg
- 17:59:20 [Rinke]
- Rinke has joined #owl
- 17:59:51 [bcuencag]
- bcuencag has joined #owl
- 17:59:54 [Zakim]
- +??P13
- 17:59:56 [IanH]
- Yes, Bernardo kindly agreed to step in.
- 17:59:57 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 18:00:07 [schneid]
- zakim, ??P12 is me
- 18:00:07 [Zakim]
- +schneid; got it
- 18:00:11 [schneid]
- zakim, mute me
- 18:00:11 [Zakim]
- schneid should now be muted
- 18:00:23 [IanH]
- He may, like me, be having trouble getting past Zakim.
- 18:00:34 [Zakim]
- +Ian_Horrocks
- 18:00:38 [Zakim]
- +??P17
- 18:00:43 [bcuencag]
- Zakim, ??P17 is me
- 18:00:43 [Zakim]
- +bcuencag; got it
- 18:00:46 [Zakim]
- + +2aaaa
- 18:00:47 [IanH]
- Zakim, Ian_Horrocks is me
- 18:00:47 [Zakim]
- +IanH; got it
- 18:00:56 [bcuencag]
- Zakim, mute me
- 18:00:56 [Zakim]
- bcuencag should now be muted
- 18:01:00 [msmith]
- msmith has joined #owl
- 18:01:02 [IanH]
- zakim, who is here?
- 18:01:02 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Evan_Wallace, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Alan_Ruttenberg, MarkusK_, schneid (muted), IanH, bcuencag (muted), +2aaaa
- 18:01:05 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see msmith, bcuencag, Rinke, MarkusK_, pfps, RRSAgent, Zakim, schneid, alanr, IanH, sandro, ewallace, trackbot
- 18:01:10 [Rinke]
- zakim, +2aaaa is me
- 18:01:10 [Zakim]
- +Rinke; got it
- 18:01:13 [Rinke]
- zakim, mute me
- 18:01:14 [Zakim]
- Rinke should now be muted
- 18:01:27 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.408.aabb
- 18:01:32 [Zhe]
- Zhe has joined #owl
- 18:01:57 [IanH]
- The silence is unnerving!
- 18:02:25 [alanr]
- zakim, who is here?
- 18:02:25 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Evan_Wallace, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Alan_Ruttenberg, MarkusK_, schneid (muted), IanH, bcuencag (muted), Rinke (muted), msmith
- 18:02:28 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Zhe, msmith, bcuencag, Rinke, MarkusK_, pfps, RRSAgent, Zakim, schneid, alanr, IanH, sandro, ewallace, trackbot
- 18:02:31 [Zakim]
- + +1.978.692.aacc
- 18:02:32 [ivan]
- ivan has joined #owl
- 18:02:57 [Zhe]
- zakim, +1.978.692.aacc is me
- 18:02:57 [Zakim]
- +Zhe; got it
- 18:03:00 [IanH]
- I thought silence meant that you were about to get an arrow in the chest.
- 18:03:02 [Zhe]
- zakim, mute me
- 18:03:02 [Zakim]
- Zhe should now be muted
- 18:03:18 [ivan]
- zakim, dial ivan-voip
- 18:03:18 [Zakim]
- ok, ivan; the call is being made
- 18:03:20 [Zakim]
- +Ivan
- 18:03:41 [Christine]
- Christine has joined #owl
- 18:04:20 [ewallace]
- scribenick: bcuencag
- 18:04:21 [bcuencag]
- yes
- 18:04:27 [Zakim]
- +Sandro
- 18:04:50 [alanr]
- zakim, who is here?
- 18:04:50 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Evan_Wallace, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Alan_Ruttenberg, MarkusK_, schneid (muted), IanH, bcuencag (muted), Rinke (muted), msmith, Zhe (muted), Ivan, Sandro
- 18:04:53 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Christine, ivan, Zhe, msmith, bcuencag, Rinke, MarkusK_, pfps, RRSAgent, Zakim, schneid, alanr, IanH, sandro, ewallace, trackbot
- 18:05:05 [schneid]
- q+
- 18:05:10 [schneid]
- zakim, unmute me
- 18:05:12 [Zakim]
- schneid should no longer be muted
- 18:05:12 [alanr]
- ack schneid
- 18:05:17 [bcuencag]
- alanr: agenda amendments?
- 18:05:35 [schneid]
- zakim, mute me
- 18:05:35 [Zakim]
- schneid should now be muted
- 18:05:36 [bcuencag]
- schneid: I would like to say something about the status of RDF smeantics
- 18:05:49 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 18:05:57 [msmith]
- the minutes looked ok to me.
- 18:05:57 [bcuencag]
- alanr: minuets accepted?
- 18:05:58 [pfps]
- The minutes look acceptable.
- 18:06:07 [schneid]
- minutes were helpful to find back... :)
- 18:06:09 [bcuencag]
- alanr: minutes accepted
- 18:06:20 [bcuencag]
- alanr: action items
- 18:06:21 [Christine]
- zakim, ??P8 is christine
- 18:06:21 [Zakim]
- +christine; got it
- 18:06:24 [sandro]
- "Wow?"
- 18:06:35 [bcuencag]
- alanr: F2F registration
- 18:07:16 [pfps]
- q+
- 18:07:28 [alanr]
- ack pfps
- 18:07:49 [bcuencag]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 18:07:49 [Zakim]
- bcuencag should no longer be muted
- 18:08:01 [bcuencag]
- Action 252
- 18:08:01 [trackbot]
- Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
- 18:08:10 [bcuencag]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 18:08:10 [Zakim]
- bcuencag was not muted, bcuencag
- 18:08:16 [bcuencag]
- alanr: action 252
- 18:08:35 [bcuencag]
- pfps: we should tell to people inmediately what the name could be
- 18:08:41 [IanH]
- q+
- 18:08:48 [alanr]
- ack ianh
- 18:09:13 [elisa]
- elisa has joined #owl
- 18:09:21 [alanr]
- q+ alanr
- 18:09:22 [pfps]
- the name for the date/time XML datatype has been determined
- 18:09:28 [bcuencag]
- ianH: if the docs are approved as it is, we could have a list of changes after last call
- 18:09:32 [alanr]
- ack alanr
- 18:09:51 [bcuencag]
- alanr: we could use the wiki only for editor comments
- 18:10:07 [bcuencag]
- alanr: so that they can be collected
- 18:10:16 [bcuencag]
- sandro: better not use the wiki commnets
- 18:10:33 [bcuencag]
- alanr: they are not very readable
- 18:11:21 [bcuencag]
- ianH: we should make it clear to editors that this is the process
- 18:11:36 [bcuencag]
- pfps: so edits have to indicate if they make any change to the docs
- 18:11:55 [schneid]
- RDF-Based Semantics has a list of changes which is updated regularly, and revised at the end <http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RDF-Based_Semantics#Changelog>
- 18:12:16 [bcuencag]
- Zakim, mute me
- 18:12:16 [Zakim]
- bcuencag should now be muted
- 18:12:24 [pfps]
- I'll change Syntax accordingly.
- 18:12:44 [alanr]
- action: pfps to implement change to syntax for datetime xml schema coordination
- 18:12:44 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-261 - Implement change to syntax for datetime xml schema coordination [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2009-01-14].
- 18:12:45 [bcuencag]
- ianH: we should be a bit more prescriptive in the way docs are changed
- 18:13:01 [Zakim]
- + +1.650.960.aadd
- 18:13:03 [pfps]
- I agree
- 18:13:09 [bcuencag]
- ianH: at this point changes should not be made unless we discuss them first
- 18:13:34 [bcuencag]
- sandro: even for typos?
- 18:13:47 [bcuencag]
- ianH: no, only for more substantial changes
- 18:13:58 [alanr]
- q?
- 18:14:06 [Zakim]
- -Rinke
- 18:14:31 [bcuencag]
- sandro: we should be able to clearly identify the changes since last call
- 18:15:06 [sandro]
- identify and http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Response_Protocol
- 18:15:06 [bcuencag]
- alanr: action 255
- 18:15:13 [elisa]
- zakim, ??aadd is me
- 18:15:13 [Zakim]
- sorry, elisa, I do not recognize a party named '??aadd'
- 18:15:18 [sandro]
- action-255?
- 18:15:18 [trackbot]
- ACTION-255 -- Sandro Hawke to write wiki page on mailing-list behavior guidelines during last call -- due 2008-12-10 -- OPEN
- 18:15:18 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/255
- 18:15:21 [sandro]
- action-255 closed
- 18:15:21 [trackbot]
- ACTION-255 Write wiki page on mailing-list behavior guidelines during last call closed
- 18:15:37 [bcuencag]
- alanr: action 260
- 18:15:39 [elisa]
- zakim, +1.650.960.aadd is me
- 18:15:39 [Zakim]
- +elisa; got it
- 18:16:08 [Zakim]
- +??P15
- 18:16:20 [bcuencag]
- sandro: I consider my action done
- 18:16:24 [Rinke]
- zakim, +??P15 is me
- 18:16:24 [Zakim]
- sorry, Rinke, I do not recognize a party named '+??P15'
- 18:16:46 [Rinke]
- zakim, ??P15 is me
- 18:16:46 [Zakim]
- +Rinke; got it
- 18:16:57 [bcuencag]
- end of action status
- 18:17:07 [Rinke]
- zakim, mute me
- 18:17:07 [Zakim]
- Rinke should now be muted
- 18:17:13 [bcuencag]
- Soliciting reviews of and/or comments on LC documents
- 18:17:15 [IanH]
- q+
- 18:17:25 [alanr]
- ack ianh
- 18:17:59 [bcuencag]
- ianH: if we haven't got comments, we should encourage people to make comments
- 18:18:06 [bcuencag]
- ianH: should we be worried?
- 18:18:32 [bcuencag]
- ianH: by next week, if little comes out, we should take some action
- 18:19:04 [schneid]
- q+
- 18:19:17 [bcuencag]
- sandro: sometimes comments we do not happen because people have not read the docs
- 18:19:27 [bcuencag]
- ianH: waht about comments within the WG?
- 18:19:54 [bcuencag]
- sandro: I don't know
- 18:20:27 [bcuencag]
- ianH: comments from industry members may be valuable
- 18:20:43 [schneid]
- zakim, unmute me
- 18:20:43 [Zakim]
- schneid should no longer be muted
- 18:20:43 [alanr]
- ack schneid
- 18:20:45 [bcuencag]
- sandro: for that, we can wait until rec stage
- 18:21:31 [bcuencag]
- mschneid: there have been some comments but not using the official route
- 18:22:08 [IanH]
- q+
- 18:22:28 [bcuencag]
- mschneid: there were some discussions and something came out from them
- 18:22:48 [alanr]
- ack ianh
- 18:22:52 [alanr]
- q?
- 18:22:58 [bcuencag]
- mschneid: should we rise the comments on behalf of these people?
- 18:23:15 [bcuencag]
- ianH; we can ask these people
- 18:24:01 [schneid]
- zakim, mute me
- 18:24:01 [Zakim]
- schneid should now be muted
- 18:24:20 [schneid]
- zakim, unmute me
- 18:24:20 [Zakim]
- schneid should no longer be muted
- 18:24:26 [schneid]
- zakim, mute me
- 18:24:26 [Zakim]
- schneid should now be muted
- 18:24:26 [bcuencag]
- alanr: we might emphasizr that comments are very important for us
- 18:24:52 [bcuencag]
- alanr: F2F5
- 18:25:10 [bcuencag]
- alanr:please confirm your attendance status
- 18:25:10 [alanr]
- http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F5_People
- 18:25:20 [schneid]
- q+
- 18:25:31 [IanH]
- q?
- 18:25:43 [schneid]
- zakim, unmute me
- 18:25:43 [Zakim]
- schneid should no longer be muted
- 18:25:48 [alanr]
- ack schneid
- 18:25:54 [schneid]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jan/0000.html
- 18:26:07 [bcuencag]
- mschneid: there are some new US entry regulations
- 18:26:30 [bcuencag]
- mschneid: please, be careful
- 18:26:31 [schneid]
- zakim, mute me
- 18:26:31 [Zakim]
- schneid should now be muted
- 18:26:41 [IanH]
- I filled it recently (voluntarily) and it was pretty light-weight (I got an "instant" OK response)
- 18:27:07 [alanr]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2008Dec/0000.html
- 18:27:16 [IanH]
- q+
- 18:27:20 [alanr]
- ack ianh
- 18:27:28 [bcuencag]
- ianH: I have looked at alan's email
- 18:27:37 [pfps]
- q+
- 18:28:28 [bcuencag]
- ianH: they would like to have complex concepts in comments in order to support sanctioning
- 18:28:53 [bcuencag]
- ianH: I wouldn't personally want to extend the spec in this direction
- 18:28:58 [pfps]
- q-
- 18:29:13 [bcuencag]
- ianH: but we could be able to support mechanisms for at least partially support their use case
- 18:29:38 [bcuencag]
- alanr: somebody should start drafting those mechanisms
- 18:30:39 [bcuencag]
- ianH: one way would be to use named concepts for defining the complex concepts they want to use
- 18:30:46 [bcuencag]
- ianH: some problems with that
- 18:31:06 [bcuencag]
- ianH: one could add the definition of the concept as a string
- 18:31:25 [bcuencag]
- alanr: do you want to start a page, Ian?
- 18:31:43 [bcuencag]
- ianH: we should use the response page for last call comments
- 18:32:02 [pfps]
- +1
- 18:32:44 [bcuencag]
- alanr: could there will be problems with the mapping to RDF?
- 18:32:50 [pfps]
- No problem. :-)
- 18:32:56 [bcuencag]
- ianH; let's Peter and Boris think about it
- 18:33:18 [bcuencag]
- pfps: there will be no problems
- 18:33:51 [bcuencag]
- alnr: no, I meant if we actually wanted to add axioms in the target of annotations
- 18:33:59 [bcuencag]
- pfps: that is a problem
- 18:34:21 [bcuencag]
- ianH: well, problably they just want an unnamed individual introducing a complex concept
- 18:34:38 [bcuencag]
- pfps: if it is a class expression, then there should not be a problem
- 18:34:49 [bcuencag]
- alanr: what about serializing the axiom as text?
- 18:35:17 [bcuencag]
- pfps: they would just be strings
- 18:36:25 [bcuencag]
- pfps: we could go and change all documents, but that would be a mess
- 18:36:39 [alanr]
- q?
- 18:36:54 [bcuencag]
- ianH: I have already created a page
- 18:37:10 [bcuencag]
- ianH: we can now start writing our responses
- 18:37:48 [alanr]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jan/att-0000/00-part
- 18:37:55 [bcuencag]
- alanr: Ceil's comments
- 18:38:09 [bcuencag]
- alanr: have you read it?
- 18:38:10 [schneid]
- this was not really a comment
- 18:38:30 [bcuencag]
- alanr: i agree with michael
- 18:38:52 [IanH]
- +1
- 18:38:59 [pfps]
- +1
- 18:39:12 [schneid]
- +1, just to let her know that somebody is watching her :)
- 18:39:37 [alanr]
- Action: alanr to send mail to cecil replying that we are waiting for the real comment
- 18:39:37 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - alanr
- 18:39:58 [pfps]
- +1
- 18:40:02 [pfps]
- q+
- 18:40:03 [sandro]
- ACTION: alan to send mail to cecil replying that we are waiting for the real comment
- 18:40:03 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-262 - to send mail to cecil replying that we are waiting for the real comment [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2009-01-14].
- 18:40:22 [msmith]
- q+
- 18:40:27 [alanr]
- ack pfps
- 18:40:45 [bcuencag]
- alanr: the next comment is from Mike Smith
- 18:40:59 [bcuencag]
- pfps: Mike has noticed an error in the reverse mapping
- 18:41:08 [bcuencag]
- pfps: we need to fix it
- 18:41:24 [bcuencag]
- pfps: i have written an email with the proposed resolution
- 18:41:52 [IanH]
- q?
- 18:41:57 [alanr]
- ack msmith
- 18:42:20 [bcuencag]
- msmith: boris suggested to make it a public comment
- 18:42:30 [pfps]
- q+
- 18:42:36 [bcuencag]
- msmith: I dind't mean this to me a LC comment, but just a WH issue
- 18:42:44 [alanr]
- ack pfps
- 18:42:56 [bcuencag]
- pfps: it is good to have it as LC comment
- 18:42:56 [alanr]
- +1
- 18:43:12 [bcuencag]
- pfps: it will be easier to track
- 18:43:17 [msmith]
- that's ok by me too.
- 18:43:25 [bcuencag]
- pfps: we could distinguish them between internal or external
- 18:43:51 [ivan]
- q+
- 18:43:57 [bcuencag]
- alanr: next comment
- 18:43:58 [alanr]
- ack ivan
- 18:44:22 [bcuencag]
- ivan: this looks like a potential formal objection
- 18:44:46 [bmotik]
- bmotik has joined #owl
- 18:45:11 [Zakim]
- +??P4
- 18:45:13 [bcuencag]
- ivan: there could be problems with RDF and SPARQL implementations
- 18:45:16 [bmotik]
- Zakim, ??P4 is me
- 18:45:16 [Zakim]
- +bmotik; got it
- 18:45:29 [bcuencag]
- ivan: boris should look at it
- 18:45:30 [alanr]
- boris, we are discussing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-comments/2009Jan/0001.html
- 18:45:33 [bmotik]
- Zakim, mute me
- 18:45:33 [Zakim]
- bmotik should now be muted
- 18:45:38 [schneid]
- Andy's comments seems substantial to me, although I did not yet follow it further
- 18:46:06 [bcuencag]
- alnr: how do we handle this LC comment?
- 18:46:16 [bcuencag]
- ivan: we should agree on some sort of an answer
- 18:46:38 [bcuencag]
- alanr: we could use the rdf mailing list
- 18:46:49 [bcuencag]
- sandro: in order to look for an agreement
- 18:47:52 [bmotik]
- I'm sorry, I don't know yet where we are
- 18:48:12 [bcuencag]
- alanr: we could probably postpone this
- 18:48:26 [bcuencag]
- sandro: I am on that list
- 18:49:48 [bcuencag]
- alanr: the next one is a comment by Jim
- 18:50:05 [bcuencag]
- alanr: mike had a discussion with him
- 18:50:09 [schneid]
- zakim, unmute me
- 18:50:09 [Zakim]
- schneid should no longer be muted
- 18:50:13 [schneid]
- q+
- 18:50:18 [alanr]
- ack schneid
- 18:50:29 [IanH]
- q+
- 18:50:33 [bcuencag]
- schneid: the discussion was on the semantics of keys
- 18:51:15 [bcuencag]
- schneid: a better explanation was requested in order to avoid confusion with the semantics of keys
- 18:51:22 [bcuencag]
- schneid: jim was confused
- 18:51:34 [bcuencag]
- schneid: some clarification is in order
- 18:52:01 [Christine]
- +q
- 18:52:01 [schneid]
- zakim, mute me
- 18:52:02 [Zakim]
- schneid should now be muted
- 18:52:04 [alanr]
- ack ianh
- 18:52:26 [bcuencag]
- ianH: jim was happy about the structure of the language
- 18:52:42 [ivan]
- q+
- 18:52:46 [bcuencag]
- ianH: we should send him an email to forward his email to the public record
- 18:52:55 [alanr]
- ack Christine
- 18:53:04 [bcuencag]
- ianH: there should be a LC comment of that form
- 18:53:31 [bcuencag]
- Christine: I can add a sentence to the requirements doc
- 18:53:40 [alanr]
- q?
- 18:53:45 [alanr]
- ack ivan
- 18:54:01 [schneid]
- indeed, Jim did so
- 18:54:44 [bcuencag]
- ivan: that is already done
- 18:55:18 [bcuencag]
- alanr: perhaps Boris could take a look at the examples on keys
- 18:55:22 [pfps]
- yes
- 18:55:30 [ivan]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Dec/0055.html "So I hereby raise this as a LC Document issue"
- 18:55:32 [bcuencag]
- alanr: Bijan should also be aware for the primer
- 18:55:40 [pfps]
- Bijan and I will do so.
- 18:55:50 [IanH]
- Someone -- probably Michael -- should send a summary email to the public comments list?
- 18:56:15 [alanr]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-dev/2009JanMar/0003.html
- 18:56:32 [pfps]
- q+
- 18:56:36 [bcuencag]
- alanr: the next comment is more like a question
- 18:56:38 [alanr]
- ack pfps
- 18:56:46 [schneid]
- what Jim said in <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Dec/0055.html>: "So I hereby raise this as a LC Document issue (I believe the right
- 18:56:48 [schneid]
- terminology) -- i.e. the design is okay, but the documentation should
- 18:56:49 [schneid]
- better reflect it"
- 18:57:17 [alanr]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-dev/2009JanMar/0003.html
- 18:57:19 [bcuencag]
- ianH: this is not a LC comment
- 18:57:19 [ivan]
- "[This is not a formal comment, just seeking understanding.]" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-dev/2009JanMar/0003.html
- 18:58:02 [alanr]
- q?
- 18:59:22 [bcuencag]
- sandro: I am going to reply to him privately
- 18:59:37 [bcuencag]
- alanr: end of LC section
- 19:00:08 [bcuencag]
- alanr: Proposal to approve tests
- 19:00:33 [bcuencag]
- alanr: we should probably approve the tests that all implementations pass
- 19:00:48 [msmith]
- q+
- 19:00:53 [alanr]
- ack msmith
- 19:01:12 [bcuencag]
- msmith: the first set of comments are all DL
- 19:01:33 [bcuencag]
- msmith: there are others that are Full and I haven't run any tool on them
- 19:02:17 [bcuencag]
- msmith: some tests are also datatype-related
- 19:02:25 [IanH]
- q+
- 19:02:32 [alanr]
- ack ianh
- 19:02:36 [bcuencag]
- msmith: reasoners treat datatypes differently
- 19:03:06 [bcuencag]
- ianH: if in the end some systems do not implement all the datatypes, we may want to keep the tests but explain why some fail
- 19:03:24 [msmith]
- q+
- 19:03:47 [alanr]
- ack msmith
- 19:04:46 [bcuencag]
- msmith: I am ok with accepting the tests that three or more reasoners pass
- 19:05:45 [bcuencag]
- alanr: should we have a formal vote on these tests?
- 19:05:55 [msmith]
- this is the direct version link http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Test_Queue&oldid=17103
- 19:06:08 [IanH]
- +1 to Alan's proposal
- 19:06:52 [alanr]
- PROPOSED: tests listed on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Test_Queue&oldid=17103 that all three reasoners pass are approved
- 19:07:24 [bcuencag]
- msmith: what about the tests that we still haven't run?
- 19:07:33 [bcuencag]
- alanr: they go to a different page
- 19:07:38 [IanH]
- q+
- 19:07:42 [alanr]
- ack ianh
- 19:08:04 [bcuencag]
- ianH; for the OWL Full ones we should have a different process
- 19:08:36 [schneid]
- q+
- 19:08:36 [msmith]
- q+
- 19:08:48 [alanr]
- ack schneid
- 19:08:52 [bcuencag]
- alanr: are we sure that all tests marked as OWL Full are indeed full?
- 19:08:53 [alanr]
- ack msmith
- 19:08:55 [alanr]
- q+ schneid
- 19:09:13 [bcuencag]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 19:09:13 [Zakim]
- bcuencag should no longer be muted
- 19:09:20 [MarkusK_]
- zamin, mute schneid
- 19:09:28 [sandro]
- Zakim, mute schneid
- 19:09:28 [Zakim]
- schneid should now be muted
- 19:09:30 [bcuencag]
- Zakim, mute me
- 19:09:30 [Zakim]
- bcuencag should now be muted
- 19:09:47 [msmith]
- report format http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Result_Format#Results_Ontology
- 19:09:56 [bcuencag]
- msmith: OWL Full implementors are welcome to run the tests
- 19:09:59 [schneid]
- q- because cannot talk at the moment
- 19:10:06 [schneid]
- no
- 19:10:37 [IanH]
- q+
- 19:10:38 [bcuencag]
- sandro: i wrote an OWL Full reasoner, but it is not currently working well
- 19:10:43 [schneid]
- I had a mail on the Full problem today
- 19:10:46 [alanr]
- ack ianh
- 19:10:53 [schneid]
- q-
- 19:10:54 [alanr]
- q- schneid
- 19:11:06 [bcuencag]
- ianH: we should vote on approving these tests that have three OKs
- 19:11:29 [msmith]
- I agree with Ian, we should minimally approve the 3 success tests
- 19:11:29 [alanr]
- PROPOSED: tests listed on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Test_Queue&oldid=17103 that all three reasoners pass are approved
- 19:11:31 [Zakim]
- -Rinke
- 19:11:49 [schneid]
- q+
- 19:11:52 [sandro]
- +1
- 19:11:53 [IanH]
- +1
- 19:11:54 [msmith]
- +1
- 19:11:55 [MarkusK_]
- +1
- 19:11:56 [bcuencag]
- +1
- 19:11:57 [alanr]
- +1
- 19:12:01 [schneid]
- zakim, unmute me
- 19:12:01 [Zakim]
- schneid should no longer be muted
- 19:12:01 [pfps]
- +1
- 19:12:14 [Christine]
- +1
- 19:12:55 [Rinke]
- +1
- 19:13:03 [alanr]
- RESOLVED: tests listed on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Test_Queue&oldid=17103 that all three reasoners pass are approved
- 19:13:27 [bcuencag]
- schneid: mschneid: some OWL Full tests can be slightly transformed and be made easy
- 19:13:31 [Zhe]
- +1 (sorry for the late vote)
- 19:13:32 [msmith]
- action smithmi to update status on approved tests
- 19:13:32 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - smithmi
- 19:13:47 [msmith]
- action msmith to update status on approved tests
- 19:13:47 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith
- 19:14:15 [bcuencag]
- alanr: are you taking an action to review the Full tests?
- 19:14:18 [msmith]
- action masmith to update status on approved tests
- 19:14:18 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - masmith
- 19:14:29 [bcuencag]
- mschneid: i need 10 days to finish other work on OWl Full
- 19:14:38 [alanr]
- action: msmith to update status on approved tests
- 19:14:38 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - msmith
- 19:14:42 [ivan]
- s/OWl/OWL/
- 19:15:47 [alanr]
- q?
- 19:15:53 [alanr]
- ack schneid
- 19:17:06 [bcuencag]
- alanr: please, give details in an email, michael
- 19:17:31 [bcuencag]
- alanr: discussion about Manchester Syntax
- 19:17:47 [bcuencag]
- alanr: whether it should be rec track
- 19:17:53 [sandro]
- q+
- 19:17:58 [alanr]
- ack sandro
- 19:18:20 [schneid]
- The transformation needed for DL/Full entailment tests: <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2009Jan/0007.html>. Start reading at "There is another important point".
- 19:18:26 [bcuencag]
- sandro: I think it should not be rec track. it would make it a Fist Class syntax
- 19:18:34 [bcuencag]
- sandro: this was not in the charter
- 19:19:26 [bcuencag]
- alanr: should we amke a decision without Uli and Bijan?
- 19:19:55 [IanH]
- q+
- 19:20:00 [alanr]
- ack ianh
- 19:20:00 [pfps]
- I haven't discussed this with them recently.
- 19:20:19 [bcuencag]
- ianh: I think they wouldn't lie on the road
- 19:20:27 [bcuencag]
- ianH: but we could put it off
- 19:21:07 [bcuencag]
- sandro: I will be off next week
- 19:21:36 [schneid]
- schneid: in owl 1 full it was true that all dl entailments were full entailments. In OWL 2, this is not perfectly true anymore. So using feeding one of the old dl/full entailment tests into a OWL 2 Full reasoner may fail. However, there is a general transformation on dl entailments to make them into OWL 2 Full entailments. See pointer above.
- 19:21:57 [alanr]
- straw poll: 1 = want manchester syntax as rec. 2 = want it as note 3= don't care
- 19:22:06 [baojie]
- baojie has joined #owl
- 19:22:06 [ivan]
- 2
- 19:22:10 [sandro]
- 2
- 19:22:13 [schneid]
- 2
- 19:22:15 [pfps]
- 1 (prefer)
- 19:22:15 [Christine]
- 2
- 19:22:20 [bmotik]
- 1 (prefer)
- 19:22:24 [MarkusK_]
- 3
- 19:22:25 [bcuencag]
- 3
- 19:22:26 [msmith]
- 1
- 19:22:29 [Zhe]
- 2
- 19:22:30 [Rinke]
- 3
- 19:22:54 [bmotik]
- q+
- 19:22:58 [bmotik]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 19:22:58 [Zakim]
- bmotik should no longer be muted
- 19:23:04 [alanr]
- ack bmotik
- 19:23:07 [bcuencag]
- sandro: those who want to have it as a rec, could you give a reason?
- 19:23:16 [pfps]
- +1 to boris
- 19:23:17 [msmith]
- q+
- 19:23:19 [bmotik]
- Zakim, mute me
- 19:23:19 [Zakim]
- bmotik should now be muted
- 19:23:20 [bcuencag]
- bmotik: we need a readable syntax for OWL
- 19:23:39 [alanr]
- q+
- 19:23:43 [alanr]
- ack msmith
- 19:23:45 [bcuencag]
- msmith: having it as a rec does not elevate it to the same status as RDF/XML
- 19:23:48 [alanr]
- ack alanr
- 19:24:01 [ivan]
- q+
- 19:24:14 [alanr]
- ack ivan
- 19:24:51 [pfps]
- q+
- 19:24:56 [alanr]
- q?
- 19:25:05 [bcuencag]
- ivan:the conformance doc should have guidelines on how the syntaxes relate
- 19:25:12 [bcuencag]
- ivan: we could need a new LC
- 19:25:14 [msmith]
- this bit about conformance isn't true for OWL XML syntax, is it?
- 19:25:31 [IanH]
- +1 to Peter's statement about conformance
- 19:25:46 [schneid]
- +1 to peter
- 19:25:50 [bcuencag]
- pfps: conformance doe the right thing: it doesn't name other syntaxes other than RDF/XML
- 19:25:51 [bmotik]
- +1 to peter and msmith
- 19:26:16 [msmith]
- q+
- 19:26:19 [ivan]
- q+
- 19:26:24 [alanr]
- q?
- 19:26:27 [pfps]
- q-
- 19:26:34 [alanr]
- ack msmith
- 19:27:11 [bcuencag]
- msmith: please clarify what `first class' means
- 19:27:47 [bcuencag]
- sandro: people in the WG have not participated in the design
- 19:27:59 [pfps]
- I resonate with Sandro's concerns.
- 19:28:06 [msmith]
- thank you, that is compelling
- 19:28:06 [bcuencag]
- sandro: the features have not been discussed
- 19:28:17 [alanr]
- ack ivan
- 19:28:18 [pfps]
- In particular, I don't think that Manchester should slow down the WG.
- 19:28:22 [sandro]
- Sandro: If the WG really feels that Manchester is as mature as the XML syntax, and should be another "first class" document, and we've really thought about it, and really like it, ... then yeah, I'm okay with it being a REC.
- 19:28:47 [schneid]
- zakim, mute me
- 19:28:47 [Zakim]
- schneid should now be muted
- 19:29:05 [bcuencag]
- ivan: if it becomes a rec, it will have to go over all stages, such as requirement to have multiple implementations
- 19:29:21 [bcuencag]
- ivan: we may be approving something that will slow us down
- 19:29:23 [pfps]
- I'm resonating even more with Sandro and Ivan.
- 19:30:05 [IanH]
- q+
- 19:30:18 [schneid]
- hm, people outside the WG may have strong opinions on the Manchester document, because the syntax is in reasonably wide use, I guess...
- 19:30:56 [bcuencag]
- ianH: in OWL 1 the func. syntax was rec track but it was ignored by implementations
- 19:31:07 [pfps]
- OWL 1 abstract syntax wasn't supposed to be used (according to some WG members).
- 19:31:09 [bcuencag]
- sandro: it had a special status
- 19:31:23 [bcuencag]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 19:31:23 [Zakim]
- bcuencag should no longer be muted
- 19:31:29 [msmith]
- bye
- 19:31:33 [MarkusK_]
- bye
- 19:31:33 [Zakim]
- -bmotik
- 19:31:35 [Zakim]
- -msmith
- 19:31:36 [ivan]
- ivan has left #owl
- 19:31:36 [Zakim]
- -Evan_Wallace
- 19:31:36 [Rinke]
- bye
- 19:31:38 [Zakim]
- -MarkusK_
- 19:31:38 [Zakim]
- -elisa
- 19:31:39 [Zhe]
- bye
- 19:31:45 [elisa]
- by
- 19:31:46 [Zakim]
- -Peter_Patel-Schneider
- 19:31:47 [Zakim]
- -Zhe
- 19:31:48 [schneid]
- ok, no RDF-Based Semantics today...
- 19:31:49 [Zakim]
- -bcuencag
- 19:31:50 [Zakim]
- -IanH
- 19:31:50 [Zakim]
- -Sandro
- 19:31:51 [Zakim]
- -Alan_Ruttenberg
- 19:31:51 [Zakim]
- -christine
- 19:32:04 [Zakim]
- -schneid
- 19:32:17 [schneid]
- quit
- 19:34:02 [Zakim]
- -Ivan
- 19:34:03 [Zakim]
- SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
- 19:34:04 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Evan_Wallace, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Alan_Ruttenberg, MarkusK_, schneid, bcuencag, IanH, Rinke, +1.202.408.aabb, msmith, Zhe, Ivan, Sandro, christine, elisa, bmotik
- 19:39:07 [msmith]
- msmith has left #owl
- 20:32:46 [IanH]
- IanH has joined #owl
- 20:35:16 [IanH_]
- IanH_ has joined #owl
- 21:51:35 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #owl
- 22:38:02 [IanH]
- IanH has joined #owl