IRC log of html-wg on 2008-12-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:57:54 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #html-wg

16:57:54 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-html-wg-irc

16:57:56 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

16:57:56 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #html-wg

16:57:58 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be HTML

16:57:58 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

16:57:59 [trackbot]

Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference

16:57:59 [trackbot]

Date: 18 December 2008

16:58:11 [Julian]

Zakim, what's the code?

16:58:11 [Zakim]

the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Julian

16:58:31 [Zakim]

HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started

16:58:38 [Zakim]

+Sam

16:58:41 [Hixie]

hey i'm up at the time of the telecon

16:58:49 [Zakim]

+ +49.251.280.aaaa

16:59:08 [Julian]

Zakim, +49.251.280.aaaa is me

16:59:08 [Zakim]

+Julian; got it

16:59:51 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, call Mike

16:59:51 [Zakim]

ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made

16:59:53 [Zakim]

+Mike

17:00:06 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, Mike is MikeSmith

17:00:06 [Zakim]

+MikeSmith; got it

17:00:16 [Zakim]

+Ian_Hickson

17:00:20 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

17:00:20 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sam, Julian, MikeSmith, Ian_Hickson

17:00:26 [Zakim]

+??P10

17:00:40 [Joshue]

zakim, ??P10 is Joshue

17:00:40 [Zakim]

+Joshue; got it

17:00:59 [smedero]

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17:01:00 [Hixie]

Zakim, I am Ian_Hickson

17:01:00 [Zakim]

ok, Hixie, I now associate you with Ian_Hickson

17:01:30 [MikeSmith]

Topic: Agenda review

17:01:42 [MikeSmith]

scribenick: MikeSmith

17:02:23 [Zakim]

+ +1.484.802.aabb

17:02:31 [smedero]

Zakim, +1.484.802.aabb is me

17:02:31 [Zakim]

+smedero; got it

17:02:39 [smedero]

Zakim, mute me

17:02:40 [Zakim]

smedero should now be muted

17:02:45 [MikeSmith]

MikeSmith: any suggestions for agenda to add?

17:02:53 [smedero]

I don't...

17:02:53 [MikeSmith]

[nothing to add]

17:03:06 [MikeSmith]

Topic: General sync-up

17:03:36 [billmason]

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17:03:50 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

17:03:50 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Sam, Julian, MikeSmith, Ian_Hickson (muted), Joshue, smedero (muted)

17:04:03 [darobin]

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17:04:38 [MikeSmith]

DanC: can you call in for a bit?

17:04:47 [DanC]

Zakim, call DanC-work

17:04:47 [Zakim]

ok, DanC; the call is being made

17:04:48 [Zakim]

+DanC

17:05:05 [Zakim]

+Cynthia_Shelly

17:05:36 [DanC]

Topic: HTML WG chair evolution

17:06:08 [MikeSmith]

q?

17:06:27 [DanC]

regrets+ ChrisW

17:06:38 [rubys]

Thanks, Joshue: Sam will need it. :-)

17:06:38 [MikeSmith]

regrets+ Gregory

17:06:56 [Julian]

q+

17:06:59 [DanC]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Dec/0145.html Sam Ruby appointed co-chair for HTML Working Group, effective January 5 Michael(tm) Smith (Monday, 15 December)

17:07:00 [pimpbot]

Title: Sam Ruby appointed co-chair for HTML Working Group, effective January 5 from Michael(tm) Smith on 2008-12-15 (public-html@w3.org from December 2008) (at lists.w3.org)

17:07:02 [MikeSmith]

ack Julian

17:07:19 [DanC]

Mike: DanC, what do you know about your participation going forward?

17:07:40 [MikeSmith]

Julian: Sam blogged about the relationship with the XHTML2 WG, maybe can say a bit about that.

17:07:41 [cshelly]

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17:07:49 [DanC]

DanC: it looks like I'll get funding to keep doing HTML 5 work, but can't give details yet

17:08:04 [DanC]

agenda + overlap with XHTML 2 WG (issue-nn)

17:08:27 [MikeSmith]

rubys: Philippe Le Hegeart said that there was no overlap, but there clearly is overlap

17:08:32 [smedero]

Is this still hanging in the air, MikeSmith: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/62

17:08:33 [pimpbot]

Title: ACTION-62 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

17:08:56 [DanC]

agenda + overlap with XHTML 2 WG (issue-52)

17:08:58 [MikeSmith]

... proceeding with the position that there is no overlap [is not realistic]

17:09:10 [DanC]

agenda -1

17:09:12 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 2

17:09:12 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "overlap with XHTML 2 WG (issue-52)" taken up [from DanC]

17:09:15 [Julian]

q+

17:09:32 [DanC]

q+ to observe overlap in (a) namespace (b) mime type (c) brand name

17:09:41 [MikeSmith]

rubys: clearly there is overlap because of the namespace

17:09:43 [MikeSmith]

q?

17:10:08 [MikeSmith]

regrets+ RobinBerjon

17:10:12 [Julian]

q+ to state that incompaitble syntax for @rel is being defined (QName vs Cuie vs String/URI)

17:10:51 [DanC]

issue-52?

17:10:51 [MikeSmith]

rubys: I will object if I hear someone assert again that there is no overlap.

17:10:52 [trackbot]

ISSUE-52 -- Resolve XHTML2 WG objections to language in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 -- OPEN

17:10:52 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/52

17:10:53 [pimpbot]

Title: ISSUE-52 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

17:11:02 [MikeSmith]

rubys: my intent is to spend most of my time on HTML5

17:11:18 [MikeSmith]

... I think the groups should either be merged or the overlap eliminated.

17:11:21 [MikeSmith]

ack Julian

17:11:21 [Zakim]

Julian, you wanted to state that incompaitble syntax for @rel is being defined (QName vs Cuie vs String/URI)

17:11:54 [MikeSmith]

Julian: we have 2 groups that have come up with 3 incompatible syntaxes for @rel

17:12:12 [Hixie]

rubys, yeah, agreed. seems like solving that problem solves the problem you mentioned automatically though, which is why it's relevant.

17:12:13 [DanC]

(we have another issue specifically on rel...)

17:12:18 [DanC]

issue-27?

17:12:19 [trackbot]

ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- RAISED

17:12:19 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27

17:12:20 [pimpbot]

Title: ISSUE-27 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

17:12:20 [MikeSmith]

ack DanC

17:12:20 [Zakim]

DanC, you wanted to observe overlap in (a) namespace (b) mime type (c) brand name

17:12:27 [smedero]

DanC, If you are looking for it ISSUE-60 is the one dealing with the XHTML namespace...

17:12:37 [MikeSmith]

DanC: the 1999 namespace is certainly overlap

17:13:21 [MikeSmith]

DanC: but beyond that, there is certainly the brand name

17:14:24 [DanC]

(overlap is discussed in the "architectural vision" thingy from March 2007 cited from http://www.w3.org/html/wg/#charter )

17:14:26 [pimpbot]

Title: W3C HTML Working Group (at www.w3.org)

17:14:52 [DanC]

action-62?

17:14:52 [trackbot]

ACTION-62 -- Michael(tm) Smith to get XHTML 2 WG response to edits around name of XML serialization -- due 2008-12-04 -- OPEN

17:14:52 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/62

17:14:54 [pimpbot]

Title: ACTION-62 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

17:15:11 [DanC]

. action-62 due xyz

17:15:12 [smedero]

I can do it

17:15:12 [Hixie]

danc, the w3c also publicly mentioned the branding issue in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/html-pressrelease (fwiw)

17:15:13 [pimpbot]

Title: W3C Relaunches HTML Activity (at www.w3.org)

17:15:25 [adele]

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17:15:27 [DanC]

yes, there's that too, Hixie

17:15:31 [MikeSmith]

action-62 due next month

17:15:31 [trackbot]

ACTION-62 get XHTML 2 WG response to edits around name of XML serialization due date now next month

17:15:47 [MikeSmith]

q?

17:15:55 [smedero]

seems to have worked

17:15:55 [DanC]

action-62?

17:15:55 [trackbot]

ACTION-62 -- Michael(tm) Smith to get XHTML 2 WG response to edits around name of XML serialization -- due 2009-01-18 -- OPEN

17:15:55 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/62

17:15:56 [smedero]

"2009-01-18"

17:15:56 [pimpbot]

Title: ACTION-62 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

17:16:33 [DanC]

agenda + Ian's status thingy

17:16:51 [MikeSmith]

URL for the message from Hixie?

17:16:56 [Hixie]

http://www.whatwg.org/status-2008-12

17:17:00 [DanC]

http://www.whatwg.org/status-2008-12

17:17:04 [MikeSmith]

thanks

17:17:19 [DanC]

news to me: "- content sniffing to ietf (maybe adam barth as editor?)

17:17:19 [DanC]

"

17:17:35 [Hixie]

hold on

17:17:39 [Hixie]

Zakim, unmute me

17:17:39 [Zakim]

Ian_Hickson should no longer be muted

17:17:59 [MikeSmith]

DanC: it was news to me that Adam Barth is interested in the content-type sniffing stuff

17:18:11 [MikeSmith]

Hixie: he's sent mail about it.. it's a maybe

17:18:34 [DanC]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/2008Oct/0005.html # Content sniffing data from Chrome Dan Connolly (Friday, 24 October)

17:18:35 [pimpbot]

Title: Content sniffing data from Chrome from Dan Connolly on 2008-10-24 (public-html-comments@w3.org from October 2008) (at lists.w3.org)

17:18:54 [DanC]

^ Adam Barth's work

17:20:09 [DanC]

q+ to observe "Last Call Working Draft in October 2009" and suggest trying that on the homepage

17:20:43 [MikeSmith]

q?

17:21:03 [DanC]

(on RDFa and data- attributes, we haven't made a tracker issue out of that; I wonder if that's worth doing)

17:21:10 [dsinger]

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17:21:19 [Zakim]

+[Apple]

17:21:19 [DanC]

issue-14?

17:21:19 [trackbot]

ISSUE-14 -- Integration of WAI-ARIA roles into HTML5 -- RAISED

17:21:19 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/14

17:21:20 [pimpbot]

Title: ISSUE-14 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

17:21:31 [dsinger]

zakim , [Apple] has dsinger

17:21:37 [MikeSmith]

present+ DaveSinger

17:21:53 [MikeSmith]

agenda?

17:21:53 [dsinger]

zakim, [Apple] has dsinger

17:21:54 [Joshue]

+q

17:21:55 [Zakim]

+dsinger; got it

17:22:02 [DanC]

ack danc

17:22:02 [Zakim]

DanC, you wanted to observe "Last Call Working Draft in October 2009" and suggest trying that on the homepage

17:22:57 [MikeSmith]

q?

17:23:10 [MikeSmith]

ack Joshue

17:23:21 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/20

17:23:22 [pimpbot]

Title: ISSUE-20 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

17:23:28 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/76

17:23:30 [pimpbot]

Title: ACTION-76 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

17:23:52 [DanC]

issue-32?

17:23:52 [trackbot]

ISSUE-32 -- how to provide a summary of a table, e.g. for unsighted navigation? -- OPEN

17:23:52 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32

17:23:53 [pimpbot]

Title: ISSUE-32 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

17:23:55 [MikeSmith]

Joshue: a couple of things that are outstanding are the td/th @headers and table @summary

17:23:58 [Hixie]

should i delay?

17:24:13 [MikeSmith]

Hixie: no, I think would be good to go ahead

17:24:14 [Joshue]

good stuff Ian

17:24:47 [Sander]

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17:25:09 [MikeSmith]

Joshue: there was a response from the PF recently

17:25:18 [Joshue]

http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE

17:25:20 [pimpbot]

Title: HTML/SummaryForTABLE - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

17:25:20 [DanC]

(tracker thinks ChrisW has the ball on summary... action-76)

17:25:54 [MikeSmith]

Joshue: that's a distilled overview of why we think @summary is important

17:26:24 [MikeSmith]

q?

17:26:44 [DanC]

(taking a quick look at SummaryForTABLE , it seems to do better with NPOV than other summaries. nice.)

17:26:51 [dsinger]

happy hols, everyone!! byee......

17:27:05 [Zakim]

-Joshue

17:27:05 [DanC]

*

17:27:05 [DanC]

HTML/SummaryForTABLE (last edited 2008-11-24 12:35:42

17:27:08 [MikeSmith]

[adjourned]

17:27:12 [Zakim]

-Cynthia_Shelly

17:27:13 [Zakim]

-[Apple]

17:27:13 [Zakim]

-Ian_Hickson

17:27:15 [Zakim]

-Sam

17:27:17 [Zakim]

-Julian

17:27:21 [Zakim]

-smedero

17:27:22 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, drop Mike

17:27:22 [Zakim]

MikeSmith is being disconnected

17:27:23 [Zakim]

-MikeSmith

17:27:36 [MikeSmith]

RRSAgent, please make minutes

17:27:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/18-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith

17:28:44 [MikeSmith]

http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html

17:28:45 [pimpbot]

Title: Issues Graph (at www.whatwg.org)

17:31:35 [MikeSmith]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/apelad/sets/72157594388426362/detail/

17:31:36 [pimpbot]

Title: HTTP errors - a set on Flickr (at www.flickr.com)

17:31:58 [xover]

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17:36:15 [MikeSmith]

http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2008-December/017884.html

17:36:17 [pimpbot]

Title: [whatwg] XSLT and DOCTYPES (at lists.whatwg.org)

17:37:02 [MikeSmith]

3Julian: ↑

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18:10:37 [anne]

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18:11:07 [anne]

(much belated regrets, residing in Moscow atm)

18:13:03 [aaronlev]

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18:14:05 [MikeSmith]

anne: we had a short call anyway

18:14:29 [anne]

ok

18:14:50 [anne]

not sure when I'm normally available again, might be January, could be February

18:32:58 [MikeSmith]

OK

18:35:00 [Zakim]

disconnecting the lone participant, DanC, in HTML_WG()12:00PM

18:35:01 [Zakim]

HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended

18:35:03 [Zakim]

Attendees were Sam, Julian, MikeSmith, Ian_Hickson, Joshue, smedero, DanC, Cynthia_Shelly, dsinger

18:53:27 [pimpbot]

planet: This week in HTML 5 - Episode 16 <11http://blog.whatwg.org/this-week-in-html-5-episode-16>

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19:36:42 [Julian]

MikeSmith: thanks for the pointer, I already replied to it.

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22:27:07 [gsnedders]

marcos: ping

22:44:35 [marcos]

gsnedders: pong

22:44:45 [gsnedders]

marcos: You ever get anolis locally?

22:45:01 [marcos]

gsnedders: tried...

22:45:07 [gsnedders]

marcos: OK, it should be simpler :P

22:45:20 [gsnedders]

marcos: Download it, and run the installer

22:45:26 [marcos]

woot!

22:45:38 [marcos]

will it download all the dependencies?

22:45:42 [gsnedders]

yup

22:45:50 [heycam]

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22:51:27 [marcos]

gsnedders: errors :(

22:51:34 [marcos]

you want me to email them to you?

23:00:42 [gsnedders]

marcos: plz

23:00:55 [gsnedders]

marcos: did you run it as root?

23:00:55 [marcos]

gsnedders: what's yer email addy?

23:01:01 [marcos]

gsnedders: yep

23:01:02 [gsnedders]

marcos: me@gsnedders.com

23:01:16 [Philip]

(Running code from strangers on the internet as root is a great idea!)

23:01:36 [gsnedders]

Philip: How about running code from people you've met in person as root?

23:02:05 [marcos]

Philip: me and the g man go way back!

23:02:19 [Philip]

gsnedders: The person on the internet claiming to be the person you've met in person might actually be a different person

23:02:43 [gsnedders]

Yeah, this Gregory as timbl called him is rather odd.

23:03:53 [gsnedders]

marcos: gcc -v?

23:04:20 [marcos]

Using built-in specs.

23:04:20 [marcos]

Target: i686-apple-darwin9

23:04:21 [marcos]

Configured with: /var/tmp/gcc/gcc-5488~2/src/configure --disable-checking -enable-werror --prefix=/usr --mandir=/share/man --enable-languages=c,objc,c++,obj-c++ --program-transform-name=/^[cg][^.-]*$/s/$/-4.0/ --with-gxx-include-dir=/include/c++/4.0.0 --with-slibdir=/usr/lib --build=i686-apple-darwin9 --with-arch=apple --with-tune=generic --host=i686-apple-darwin9 --target=i686-apple-darwin9

23:04:21 [marcos]

Thread model: posix

23:04:22 [marcos]

gcc version 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5488)

23:04:34 [gsnedders]

Oh, actually, it's probably outdated libxml

23:05:21 [marcos]

um, ok.

23:06:06 [gsnedders]

marcos: xmllint --version?

23:06:29 [marcos]

xmllint: using libxml version 20616

23:06:29 [marcos]

compiled with: DTDValid FTP HTTP HTML C14N Catalog XPath XPointer XInclude Unicode Regexps Automata Schemas

23:06:48 [gsnedders]

There's the issue

23:06:55 [marcos]

I knew it! :P

23:07:03 [gsnedders]

You got anything like macport installed?

23:07:12 [marcos]

don't think so.

23:08:45 [Philip]

C14N - chondropterygian?

23:08:56 [gsnedders]

marcos: http://www.macports.org/

23:08:59 [pimpbot]

Title: The MacPorts Project -- Home (at www.macports.org)

23:09:32 [gsnedders]

marcos: Install that, then sudo port install libxml2 libxslt

23:10:33 [marcos]

gsnedders: roger that....

23:11:24 [xover]

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23:14:34 [Philip]

Much more interesting than boring GUI applications that hide all the magic behind a progress bar

23:21:07 [marcos]

gsnedders: ok... here we go again! :)

23:28:53 [marcos]

gsnedders: check email

23:29:34 [gsnedders]

marcos: html5lib limitation.

23:29:49 [marcos]

hehe

23:29:57 [marcos]

bah :(

23:30:23 [gsnedders]

marcos: try --lxml.html

23:30:30 [gsnedders]

marcos: That uses libxml2's HTML parser/serializer

23:30:37 [marcos]

ok

23:31:17 [gsnedders]

Philip: lxml treebuilder refuses to add xml:lang attribute

23:31:26 [Philip]

Ah

23:31:30 [Philip]

I'd blame lxml :-)

23:36:31 [shepazu]

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