17:00:16 RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
17:00:16 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-html-wg-irc
17:00:16 zakim, james_craig is dsinger
17:00:17 +dsinger; got it
17:00:18 RRSAgent, make logs public
17:00:20 Zakim, this will be HTML
17:00:21 ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
17:00:21 Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
17:00:21 Date: 20 November 2008
17:00:23 -??P6
17:00:36 +DanC
17:00:42 + +49.251.280.aaaa
17:00:49 Zakim, +49.251.280.aaaa is me
17:00:53 +Julian; got it
17:01:13 Zakim, call Mike
17:01:13 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
17:01:14 +Mike
17:01:36 Zakim, mute Mike
17:01:36 Mike should now be muted
17:01:43 adrianba has joined #html-wg
17:02:16 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2008OctDec/0007.html
17:02:18 Title: {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2008-11-20 from Chris Wilson on 2008-11-19 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from October to December 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
17:02:20 chair: ChrisWilson
17:02:28 +[Microsoft]
17:02:49 Zakim, pick a scribe
17:02:49 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC
17:02:52 Zakim, Microsoft is AdrianBa
17:02:52 +AdrianBa; got it
17:02:52 Zakim, pick a scribe
17:02:53 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC
17:02:58 Zakim, pick a scribe
17:03:00 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Mike (muted)
17:03:01 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2008OctDec/0007.html
17:03:02 Title: {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2008-11-20 from Chris Wilson on 2008-11-19 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from October to December 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
17:03:21 OK
17:03:29 scribenick: MikeSmith
17:03:33 scribe: MikeSmith
17:03:39 Any additions to the agenda?
17:03:44 Topic: Agenda review?
17:03:54 +1 for ping
17:03:58 s/review?/review/
17:04:10 DanC: suggest adding @ping to agenda
17:04:25 ... buried in message from Roy Fielding posting recently
17:04:25 agenda+ Authoring guide
17:04:26 issue-1?
17:04:26 ISSUE-1 -- hyperlink auditing requires use of unsafe HTTP method -- RAISED
17:04:26 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/1
17:04:28 Title: ISSUE-1 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:04:33 agenda+ HTTPbis
17:04:46 agenda+ HTML integration for HTTP auth
17:04:48 wrong one...
17:04:58 issue-2?
17:04:58 ISSUE-2 -- Practicability of UI requirements for hyperlink auditing -- RAISED
17:04:58 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/2
17:05:00 Title: ISSUE-2 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:05:02 agenda+ tracker review
17:05:18 agenda+ discuss ping
17:05:41 there are three different ISSUEs on ping in the tracker... though none of them address the more fundamental "should we be doing this" question...
17:06:03 going... going... gone
17:06:04 zakim, take up item 1
17:06:04 agendum 1. "Authoring guide" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
17:06:15 RRSAgent, make minutes
17:06:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
17:06:34 ChrisWilson: MikeSmith, you suggested talking about the authoring guide...
17:06:36 Lachy, did you have any updates on the authoring guide?
17:06:39 Lachy, you around?
17:06:47 not yet
17:07:02 Zakim, unmute me
17:07:02 sorry, MikeSmith, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
17:07:05 well, I started updating the introduction based on gsnedders' feedback at TPAC
17:07:07 Zakim, unmute Mike
17:07:07 Mike should no longer be muted
17:07:25 Zakim, Mike is MikeSmith
17:07:25 +MikeSmith; got it
17:07:37 zakim, close item 1
17:07:37 agendum 1, Authoring guide, closed
17:07:38 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:07:38 Zakim, umute me
17:07:39 2. HTTPbis [from ChrisWilson]
17:07:39 but now that I'm back in Oslo, I can start working on it more
17:07:40 I don't understand 'umute me', MikeSmith
17:07:40 Zakim, mute me
17:07:41 MikeSmith should now be muted
17:07:48 zakim, take up item 2
17:07:48 agendum 2. "HTTPbis" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
17:07:49 Lachy, cool
17:08:05 Lachy, karl gonna be able to help next month too
17:08:08 Joshue has joined #html-wg
17:08:09 +Cynthia_Shelly
17:08:18 has this telcon just started?
17:08:24 ChrisWilson: Julian, any updates about your work last week that relate to HTML?
17:08:26 MikeSmith, you said something about Lachy being more available after selectors API work cools down... ah... Lachy is here.
17:08:27 Lachy, yeah
17:08:32 I'll call in
17:08:47 Julian: work is progressing nicely
17:09:02 ... is there anything in particular that you want to know about?
17:09:24 q+ to note some IETF liaison requests
17:09:30 ack me
17:09:31 ack DanC
17:09:32 DanC, you wanted to note some IETF liaison requests
17:09:33 DanC, yeah, Selectors API has now been published as an LC again and will be going to CR very soon, since there isn't much to do with it now. So I should have plenty of time to spend on the authoring guide
17:09:53 ... in theory what we're doing should effect any spec that relies on it, [because of teh nature of the work we doing just being to refine the existing spec]
17:10:08 +??P19
17:10:17 DanC: somebody passed some info along to an IETF area director
17:10:19 Zakim, I am ??P19
17:10:19 +Lachy; got it
17:10:39 DanC: so that probably was about WebSockets?
17:10:40 ... about HTML5 spec [encroaching on HTTP territory]
17:10:44 concern about a profile of HTTP being included in the HTML spec ... WebSockets
17:10:51 ChrisWilson: DanC, any futher acttion to add to that?
17:11:06 websockets should prolly get added to http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/2
17:11:07 Title: Details on Product HTML Principles/Requirements - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:11:13 DanC: I have not cracked the requirements-process nut, but that one should prolly get added
17:11:22 websockets isn't a profile of HTTP, though
17:11:35 ChrisWilson: I tihnk we need to go through all of those again
17:11:41 for the record -- httpbis status -- http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/
17:11:41 cyns has joined #html-wg
17:11:42 Title: Httpbis Status Pages (at tools.ietf.org)
17:11:48 it's at least perceived as such a profile, takkaria
17:12:04 ... goes back to the long-standing topic about what to do about [aligning the work with teh charter]
17:12:13 zakim, agenda?\
17:12:13 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
17:12:15 2. HTTPbis [from ChrisWilson]
17:12:16 3. HTML integration for HTTP auth [from ChrisWilson]
17:12:17 4. tracker review [from ChrisWilson]
17:12:18 5. discuss ping [from ChrisWilson]
17:12:20 +??P30
17:12:29 Julian
17:12:31 zakim, ??P30 is Joshue
17:12:31 +Joshue; got it
17:12:34 zakim, close item 2
17:12:34 agendum 2, HTTPbis, closed
17:12:35 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:12:37 3. HTML integration for HTTP auth [from ChrisWilson]
17:12:38 zakim, take up item 3\
17:12:38 '3\\' does not match any agenda item, ChrisWilson
17:12:40 (hmm... give myself an action to add an issue, or add the issue here/now? is "WebSockets requirement?" enough of an issue description?)
17:12:40 zakim, take up item 3
17:12:40 agendum 3. "HTML integration for HTTP auth" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
17:12:54 (guess I'll go with an action...)
17:12:57 DanC - add the issue
17:13:04 Julian oh Julian - update on the HTTP auth topic?
17:13:05 ok
17:13:23 ISSUE: WebSockets requirement? in scope?
17:13:24 Created ISSUE-62 - WebSockets requirement? in scope? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/62/edit .
17:13:35 Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:13:35 On the phone I see dsinger, Sam, ChrisWilson, Shawn_Medero, DanC, Julian, MikeSmith (muted), AdrianBa, Cynthia_Shelly, Lachy, Joshue
17:14:04 ChrisWilson: update on HTML integration point with HTTP auth issue?
17:14:05 issue-13?
17:14:06 ISSUE-13 -- Handling HTTP status 401 responses / User Agent Authentication Forms -- RAISED
17:14:06 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/13
17:14:07 Title: ISSUE-13 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:14:31 Julian: I think discussion during the TPAC showed that the majority of the HTML WG is not interested in working on it
17:14:59 zakim, mute me
17:14:59 Joshue should now be muted
17:15:13 DanC: I don't think that Hixie is convinced that it's bad enough to do something about
17:15:29 ... I'm on the fence because I've not seen any proposed solution that I know how to deply
17:15:37 s/deply/deploy/
17:16:10 DanC: one approach is to say that we don't plan to tackle it in this version fo HTML5
17:16:22 ChrisWilson: we can just leave it on the issue pile...
17:16:33 DanC: leaving it where it is is the default
17:17:02 ... question is, is it time to decide to postpone it now [til a later version of HTML, if at all]
17:17:09 adele has joined #html-wg
17:17:18 DanC: rubys, thoughts on this?
17:17:24 rubys: not really
17:17:29 DanC: adrianba ?
17:17:52 Zakim, sam is rubys
17:17:52 +rubys; got it
17:18:07 adrianba: [expressing that postponing it seems reasonable]
17:18:26 DanC: if we do postpone it, we should do it noisily
17:18:36 DanC: any useful venue to make noise?
17:18:38 other than the mailing list?
17:19:04 I think it should definitely be postponed at least until there is some real proposal to move forward with, but it seems like it's out of scope for this group
17:19:56 Julian: [mentions that certain proposed solutions work fine in browsers, but not, e.g., in feed readers]
17:20:06 . ACTION DanC: propose to postpone ISSUE-13 handling-http-401-status by explaining the problem, noting the lack of solutions, and asking if postponing is acceptable
17:20:19 ACTION DanC: propose to postpone ISSUE-13 handling-http-401-status by explaining the problem, noting the lack of solutions, and asking if postponing is acceptable
17:20:19 Created ACTION-86 - Propose to postpone ISSUE-13 handling-http-401-status by explaining the problem, noting the lack of solutions, and asking if postponing is acceptable [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-11-27].
17:20:39 action-86 due 2008-12-31
17:20:39 ACTION-86 Propose to postpone ISSUE-13 handling-http-401-status by explaining the problem, noting the lack of solutions, and asking if postponing is acceptable due date now 2008-12-31
17:20:51 ChrisWilson: just saying I don't know what set of people especially care about it
17:20:56 fine with me, as long as we agree it *is* an issue
17:21:00 zakim, close item 3
17:21:00 agendum 3, HTML integration for HTTP auth, closed
17:21:02 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:21:03 4. tracker review [from ChrisWilson]
17:21:07 zakim, take up item 4
17:21:07 agendum 4. "tracker review" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
17:21:13 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
17:21:15 Title: Input for Agenda Planning for the HTML Weekly - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:21:34 agenda+ @headers update from Joshue
17:21:46 RRSAgent, make minutes
17:21:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
17:21:47 Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 20 Nov 2008 (at www.w3.org)
17:22:27 action-78 - I will close this once I've read through Ian's edits
17:22:34 action-80?
17:22:34 ACTION-80 -- Chris Wilson to ian Hickson to write an assessment of possible sections to split out and estimated hours of work -- due 2008-11-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:22:34 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/80
17:22:36 Title: ACTION-80 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:22:36 action-78?
17:22:36 ACTION-78 -- Chris Wilson to suggestion text for 1.4.4 -- due 2008-10-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:22:36 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/78
17:22:38 Title: ACTION-78 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:23:20 action-78: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Oct/0127.html
17:23:20 ACTION-78 Suggestion text for 1.4.4 notes added
17:23:21 Title: HTML5 Specification - List of sections and corresponding work estimates from Ian Hickson on 2008-10-27 (public-html@w3.org from October 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
17:24:03 Zakim, mute Shawn_Medero
17:24:03 Shawn_Medero should now be muted
17:24:15 ACTION-34 due 31 Dec 2008
17:24:15 ACTION-34 Prepare "Web Developer's Guide to HTML5" for publication in some way, as discussed on 2007-11-28 phone conference due date now 31 Dec 2008
17:24:32 Lachy: about authoring guide, at the f2f we talked about end of December as a milestone
17:24:46 Lionheart has joined #html-wg
17:25:03 -1 telcon next week
17:25:19 action-62?
17:25:19 ACTION-62 -- Michael(tm) Smith to get XHTML 2 WG response to edits around name of XML serialization -- due 2008-10-02 -- OPEN
17:25:19 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/62
17:25:21 Title: ACTION-62 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:25:30 Zakim, unmute me
17:25:30 MikeSmith should no longer be muted
17:26:08 action-62 due 4 Dec 2008
17:26:08 ACTION-62 get XHTML 2 WG response to edits around name of XML serialization due date now 4 Dec 2008
17:26:37 MikeSmith: I'll follow up with Roland
17:27:27 zakim, unmute me
17:27:27 Joshue should no longer be muted
17:27:31 action-84?
17:27:31 ACTION-84 -- Joshue O Connor to prepare status report on @headers discussion by next week -- due 2008-11-20 -- OPEN
17:27:31 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/84
17:27:32 Title: ACTION-84 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:27:59 Joshue: I have some feedback from PF on this issue which I'm prepared to share
17:28:04 agenda?
17:28:16 action-75?
17:28:16 ACTION-75 -- Michael(tm) Smith to raise question to group about Yes, leave @profile out, No, re-add it -- and cite Hixie's summary of the discussion -- due 2008-10-24 -- OPEN
17:28:16 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/75
17:28:17 Title: ACTION-75 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:28:41 agenda+ decide on whether we're having a telecon next week
17:29:16 MikeSmith: I think we are ready to have a group survey about @profile
17:29:18 close action-77
17:29:18 ACTION-77 Lead HTML WG to response to TAG discussion and report back to TAG closed
17:30:24 issue-72?
17:30:24 ISSUE-72 does not exists
17:30:28 (the josh-not-in-tracker bug got fixed. http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/ )
17:30:30 Title: HTML Weekly Issue/Action Summary - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:30:32 action-72?
17:30:32 ACTION-72 -- Chris Wilson to rewrite spec to reinstate id/headers AND their functionality by specifically stating that headers are allowed to reference a td. Reword the current definition of the headers attribute so that each of the space separated tokens must have the value of the ID value of a th or td element. -- due 2008-10-02 -- OPEN
17:30:32 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/72
17:30:34 Title: ACTION-72 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
17:31:12 ACTION-79 due 4 Dec 2008
17:31:12 ACTION-79 - send email to spark issue-60 due date now 4 Dec 2008
17:31:46 looking at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Oct/0127.html ...
17:31:47 Title: HTML5 Specification - List of sections and corresponding work estimates from Ian Hickson on 2008-10-27 (public-html@w3.org from October 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
17:31:54 "8. Content-Type handling and content sniffing
17:31:54 "
17:32:25 action-81: see "8. Content-Type handling and content sniffing" in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Oct/0127.html
17:32:25 ACTION-81 Hixie to put content-type sniffing section on list of sections to find an editor for notes added
17:32:26 Title: HTML5 Specification - List of sections and corresponding work estimates from Ian Hickson on 2008-10-27 (public-html@w3.org from October 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
17:32:28