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07:09:22 timeless, (+33)4/92977000 (according to Sofitel's website)
07:09:37 3/j mw4d
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07:10:04 so some pages depend on < and > not being escaped in
07:10:14 timeless: try me for message, i'm in a meeting but i can pop out during the break with a message
07:10:22 zcorpan: how so?
07:10:33 how can it make a difference, i mean
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07:10:42 Hixie: one page does a string replace on the innerHTML
07:10:50 oh lord
07:10:54 http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll?qscr=cars&itid=&itdx=&itty=&&ploc=&plo2=&flag=&subm=1&tovr=-1294637292&styp=1&locn=Denver&loid=&astr=&acty=&astt=&azip=&date1=10%2F24%2F2008&time1=660&date2=10%2F25%2F2008&time2=660&loc2=&loi2=&rdus=10&cark=1&kind=1&optn=1&vend=&fspeceq=1&rdct=1
07:11:11 so they want <> not escaped in attribute values in innerHTML?
07:11:18 right
07:11:36 apparently firefox and webkit special case javascript urls
07:11:39 for innerHTML
07:12:14 agenda+ 9:00-9:15: Get settled
07:12:24 though i'd prefer if <> never was escaped like in ie
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07:12:55 agenda+ 9:15-10:30: Progress review/evaluation of stability of sections of HTML5 spec
07:13:03 (except in webkit in javascript urls)
07:13:12 hsivonen: ping
07:13:18 agenda+ 10:30-11:00: Coffee break
07:13:25 Hixie: should i file a bug on the spec?
07:13:37 i've fixed it already
07:13:39 checkign it in now
07:13:44 cool, thanks
07:13:45 agenda?
07:14:06 agenda+ 11:00-11:45 Introduction to writing test cases
07:14:25 agenda+ 11:45-12:30 writing test cases
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07:14:38 agenda+ 12:30-14:00: Lunch break
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07:14:58 zakim, close agenda item 11
07:14:58 I don't understand 'close agenda item 11', CWilso
07:15:08 Zakim, drop agendum 1
07:15:08 agendum 1, implicit accessibility roles, dropped
07:15:08 zakim, drop agenda item 11
07:15:09 I don't understand 'drop agenda item 11', CWilso
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07:15:38 zakim, agenda?
07:15:38 I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:
07:15:39 2. authoring guide [from Lachy via DanC_lap]
07:15:40 3. authentication brainstorm 4:45pm Thu [JR/IH]
07:15:41 4. table headers attribute 4pm-4:45pm Thu [Joshue]
07:15:42 5. SVG in text/html 2pm Fri rm exec 7 [Doug]
07:15:44 6. 9:00-9:15: Get settled [from CWilso]
07:15:45 7. 9:15-10:30: Progress review/evaluation of stability of sections of HTML5 spec [from CWilso]
07:15:48 8. 10:30-11:00: Coffee break [from CWilso]
07:15:49 9. 11:00-11:45 Introduction to writing test cases [from CWilso]
07:15:50 10. 11:45-12:30 writing test cases [from CWilso]
07:15:50 Zakim, drop agendum 3
07:15:51 11. 12:30-14:00: Lunch break [from CWilso]
07:15:52 agendum 3, authentication brainstorm 4:45pm Thu [JR/IH], dropped
07:16:18 zakim, drop agendum 11
07:16:18 agendum 11, 12:30-14:00: Lunch break, dropped
07:16:26 Zakim, drop agendum 4
07:16:26 agendum 4, table headers attribute 4pm-4:45pm Thu [Joshue], dropped
07:16:53 Zakim, drop agendum 5
07:16:53 agendum 5, SVG in text/html 2pm Fri rm exec 7 [Doug], dropped
07:17:01 agenda+ 11:45-12:30 Implicit accessibility roles (concurrent discussion)
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07:17:18 agenda+ 12:30-14:00: Lunch break
07:17:46 agenda+ 14:00-14:45: Review open issues from tracker
07:18:21 agenda+ 14:45-15:30: wrap up test case/tutorial discussion
07:18:48 agenda+ 15:30-16:00: Afternoon break
07:19:14 agenda+ 16:00-17:00: SVG-in-HTML discussion
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07:19:57 agenda+ 17:00-17:30: Report back from breakouts, wrap up
07:20:03 zakim, agenda?
07:20:03 I see 13 items remaining on the agenda:
07:20:04 2. authoring guide [from Lachy via DanC_lap]
07:20:05 6. 9:00-9:15: Get settled [from CWilso]
07:20:07 7. 9:15-10:30: Progress review/evaluation of stability of sections of HTML5 spec [from CWilso]
07:20:10 8. 10:30-11:00: Coffee break [from CWilso]
07:20:11 9. 11:00-11:45 Introduction to writing test cases [from CWilso]
07:20:13 10. 11:45-12:30 writing test cases [from CWilso]
07:20:14 12. 11:45-12:30 Implicit accessibility roles (concurrent discussion) [from CWilso]
07:20:16 13. 12:30-14:00: Lunch break [from CWilso]
07:20:18 14. 14:00-14:45: Review open issues from tracker [from CWilso]
07:20:20 15. 14:45-15:30: wrap up test case/tutorial discussion [from CWilso]
07:20:21 16. 15:30-16:00: Afternoon break [from CWilso]
07:20:23 17. 16:00-17:00: SVG-in-HTML discussion [from CWilso]
07:20:24 18. 17:00-17:30: Report back from breakouts, wrap up [from CWilso]
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07:21:05 zakim, drop agendum 2
07:21:05 agendum 2, authoring guide, dropped
07:21:20 zakim, take up agendum 6
07:21:20 agendum 6. "9:00-9:15: Get settled" taken up [from CWilso]
07:21:21 gsnedders, because why bother speaking when you can just type it?
07:21:47 Lachy: Why did we even bother to come to France?
07:21:56 Lachy: To have somewhere warmer to sit around with laptops?
07:22:50 gsnedders, I came for the food
07:22:52 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/
07:22:54 Title: HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)
07:23:03 I came for the deserts
07:23:09 zakim, next item
07:23:09 agendum 7. "9:15-10:30: Progress review/evaluation of stability of sections of HTML5 spec" taken up [from CWilso]
07:23:23 zakim, close agendum 6
07:23:23 agendum 6, 9:00-9:15: Get settled, closed
07:23:24 I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
07:23:25 7. 9:15-10:30: Progress review/evaluation of stability of sections of HTML5 spec [from CWilso]
07:23:34 you are here together so you can hear laughters, smiles, sees, etc ;) which is quite cool in human relationships
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07:23:56 s/smiles, sees/can smile, can see/
07:24:24 ori, I haven't seen any deserts in france. But they do have nice desserts
07:24:32 http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/
07:24:33 Title: HTML 5 (at www.whatwg.org)
07:24:44 Yes right :-)
07:25:09 aaaah for deserts… there are some kind of deserts in France or very dry or sandy areas.
07:25:27 Corsica for example - Désert des Agriates
07:25:36 If you want deserts you are welcome to come to my country - Israel
07:27:46 http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/status.cgi?action=get-all-annotations
07:28:19 I got "Error: OK (403)"
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07:30:53 scribe: smedero
07:31:06 scribenick: smedero
07:31:16 Oh, if you use the username you put and not the email it works
07:31:31 CW: The goal this morning is to go through the spec with an eye towards building a test suite
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07:32:17 MikeSmith: We talked about when the TAG was here, having a rational discussion about what parts of the spec can be split out
07:32:36 MikeSmith: Assess work effort for possible sections
07:32:44 Hixie: I can take a action item to do that
07:33:03 MikeSmith: We should focus now on the status part
07:33:14 ... I can take on updating the annotations
07:33:44 Hixie: What info do we want for a section?
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07:35:30 ah... found the annotations hacking I did; it's in http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/html5/spec/
07:35:31 MikeSmith: There is one section we should talk about right now
07:35:31 Title: html5/spec/ (at dev.w3.org)
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07:35:48 ... 1.4.3 Relationship to XHTML 1.x
07:36:06 Hixie: We are waiting from feedback from the XHTML2 WG
07:36:18 Lachy: What were their complaints?
07:36:24 Hixie: They didn't like it
07:36:43 DanC_lap: We should find the email addressing their complaints
07:37:04 this one from Roland? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jun/0264.html
07:37:04 s/DanC_lap/DanC/
07:37:05 Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Roland Merrick on 2008-06-20 (public-html@w3.org from June 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
07:37:24 MikeSmith: The initial objections were communicated privately to me
07:37:52 in that 20 jun msg, he accepts the ball "I will put the subject on the agenda for our WG telecon.
07:37:52 "
07:37:54 MikeSmith: Originally they objected to language that has since been changed
07:38:05 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0037.html is the latest i could find
07:38:07 Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Roland Merrick on 2008-07-31 (public-xhtml2@w3.org from July 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
07:38:34 q+
07:38:35 "we will get back to you" -- Merrick 31 July http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0417.html
07:38:40 Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Roland Merrick on 2008-07-31 (public-html@w3.org from July 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
07:39:46 The other messages from the XHTML2 WG:
07:39:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jun/0251.html
07:39:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jun/0253.html
07:39:48 http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-xhtml-minutes#item01
07:39:48 Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Roland Merrick on 2008-06-19 (public-html@w3.org from June 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
07:39:49 Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Roland Merrick on 2008-06-19 (public-html@w3.org from June 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
07:39:50 Title: XHTML2 WG Virtual FtF Day 3 -- 19 Jun 2008 (at www.w3.org)
07:40:21 MikeSmith: Hixie, we need another status category in your annotation tool for sections.
07:40:30 .... "pending feedback"
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07:41:03 Hixie: I would like to add something like "controversial feedback"
07:41:14 issue-52: "we will get back to you" -- Merrick 31 July http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0417.html
07:41:14 ISSUE-52 Resolve XHTML2 WG objections to language in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 notes added
07:41:15 Title: Re: changes in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 from Roland Merrick on 2008-07-31 (public-html@w3.org from July 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
07:41:49 bijan has joined #html-wg
07:42:02 ack Julian
07:42:47 html5 is listed in http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml too
07:42:48 Title: XHTML namespace (at www.w3.org)
07:44:06 DanC: ISSUE-52 contains pointers XHMTL 2 WG's concern with the spec language
07:44:28 action: ChrisWilson to suggestion text for 1.4.4
07:44:29 Created ACTION-78 - Suggestion text for 1.4.4 [on Chris Wilson - due 2008-10-31].
07:44:47 MikeSmith: Everytime I go somewhere to speak I am asked "how does XHTML 5 relate to XHTML 1 or 2"?
07:44:57 action-62?
07:44:57 ACTION-62 -- Michael(tm) Smith to ensure HTML WG response to XHTML 2 WG re name of XML serialization http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Oct/0385.html -- due 2008-10-02 -- OPEN
07:44:57 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/62
07:44:58 Title: Re: The only name for the xml serialisation of html5 from Dan Connolly on 2007-10-31 (public-html@w3.org from October 2007) (at lists.w3.org)
07:44:59 Title: ACTION-62 - HTML Issue Tracking Tracker (at www.w3.org)
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07:45:25 MikeSmith: I can talk to Roland this week and see where we are at
07:46:28 CW: 1.5 is controversial because of the name "XHTML5"
07:47:11 rrsagent, draft minutes
07:47:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-html-wg-minutes.html smedero
07:47:17 rsagent, make minutes public
07:47:29 rrsagent, make minutes public
07:47:29 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', smedero. Try /msg RRSAgent help
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07:49:27 Lachy: I'm trying to find an older email where concerns were expressed about the namespace
07:49:45 MM: I object to the namespace
07:50:02 CW: Explain why we can't use something else
07:50:15 Hixie: The browsers already use this namespace (in section 2.1.1)
07:50:42 http://html5.lachy.id.au/output?data=%3Chtml+xmlns%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fns%2Fnot-xhtml%22%3E%0D%0A%3Ctitle%3ETest%3C%2Ftitle%3E%0D%0A%3Cp%3Etest%3C%2Fp%3E%0D%0A%3C%2Fhtml%3E&type=application%2Fxhtml%2Bxml
07:50:43 Title: Test (at html5.lachy.id.au)
07:50:44 MM: I understand that may be your goal, the namespace belongs to the W3C and XHTML
07:51:03 MM: You're applying a different meaning
07:51:17 issue: Reuse of 1998 XHTML namespace is potentially misleading/wrong
07:51:17 Created ISSUE-60 - Reuse of 1998 XHTML namespace is potentially misleading/wrong ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/60/edit .
07:51:23 Lachy: In Firefox you get a DOM tree
07:52:07 s/1998/1999/
07:52:19 MM: Yesterday we had a talk with TAG about having a contract. There is an expectation with other user-agents and you're violating that contract.
07:52:23 action: ChrisWilson - send email to spark issue-60
07:52:23 Created ACTION-79 - - send email to spark issue-60 [on Chris Wilson - due 2008-10-31].
07:52:43 CW: We have evidence then that this section (2.1.1) is controversial
07:52:55 MikeSmith: It might be nice to have a freeform comment field in your annotation tool
07:53:00 Hixie: We do, it is the mailing list
07:53:17 CW: It might be nice though to have these comments inline with the spec
07:53:34 Lachy, is the namespace name observable from tests without using the application/xhtml-xml mime type?
07:53:48 yes
07:54:22 alert(document.body.namespaceURI)
07:54:24 ok. whew. thought I was confused.
07:54:27 if we were to use a different namespace for the HTML serialisation from the XHTML serialisation, then that would create problems
07:54:40 and we cannot get away with using a different namespace for XHTML
07:55:17 seems worthwhile, to me, to capture that constraint in a test case. here's hoping.
07:55:36 switching namespace is as much of a non-starter as switching all the tag names. in fact it's basically the same thing
07:57:19 MikeSmith: Moving on to review section 2.2
07:57:32 Hixie: Conformance requirements is pretty stable
07:57:54 DanC: I'm very much unhappy about the conformance section
07:58:08 DanC: It is not objective, the conformance requirements depend on the mood of the author
07:58:24 CW: I understand what you are saying, I might put it a different way
07:58:25 at least if you switch all the tag names you still keep the HTMLElement interface (so class and style etc still work). if you switch the namespace it's just Element (only xml:lang etc works)
07:58:42 ... you should raise the issue if you like
07:58:59 DanC: I've raised it in an email before
07:59:22 CW: You should make a recommendation with alternative language
07:59:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Aug/1187.html
07:59:25 Title: keep conformance objective (detailed review of section 1. Introduction) from Dan Connolly on 2007-08-30 (public-html@w3.org from August 2007) (at lists.w3.org)
07:59:57 issue: conformance depends on author's intent
07:59:57 Created ISSUE-61 - Conformance depends on author's intent ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/61/edit .
08:00:17 issue-61: originates in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Aug/1187.html
08:00:17 ISSUE-61 Conformance depends on author's intent notes added
08:00:19 Title: keep conformance objective (detailed review of section 1. Introduction) from Dan Connolly on 2007-08-30 (public-html@w3.org from August 2007) (at lists.w3.org)
08:00:26 MikeSmith: What about section 2.2.2? "this section will be removed at some point"
08:00:39 Hixie: I want to replace it with a pointer to DOM3CORE
08:01:00 MikeSmith: What is are the asterisks on the spec?
08:01:18 Hixie: Whenever you see those there is a red box in that section
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08:01:48 CW: In section 2.3 is that really what IE does for string comparison?
08:02:04 Hixie: Yes
08:03:00