XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference -- 15 Oct 2008

hello, roland, i hope everything is going better...

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/products

<scribe> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita

<scribe> ScribeNick: oedipus

<Steven> I am scribing Forms FtF; will attend here on IRC

<scribe> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Weekly Call

<scribe> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Oct/0016.html

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/products

Open Actions in Tracker

RM: 3 against me - haven't gotten to them yet

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/products

<alessio> aloha gregory! :)

RM: Shane - any reply

SM: pinged tag and forgot forms WG

RM: saw comments from noah on list

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Oct/0015.html

SM: created and closed action 5
... phrased response as "working group hasn't reviewed..." wasn't couched as WG response,

RM: if no one objects to SM's post, propose we accept

AC: plus 1

GJR: plus 1

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/5

<Steven> +1

Clearing Out Old Actions and Issues

RM: how are we managing errata to 1.1

SM: haven't had any -- probably a placeholder from XML Events document

[fyi] closed and documented WG approval: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/5

SM: don't want to update XML Events 1 spec at this point

RM: can log as erratum - if becomes necessary, can fold in

SM: W3C Pub Rules - requirement that errata be rolled into updated recs after certain period of time
... reason we tend not to do much with errata - rather have people move on to newer recs rather than use old

RM: useful if get query on this again - keeping track; don't want to lose it

GJR: could create issue - XHTML Policy on Errata

SM: link to an errata document - in datespace

<ShaneM> errata is at http://www.w3.org/2003/10/REC-xml-events-20031014-errata/

SM: no errata in it -- could put in editorial things as errata and check off our list
... don't have write-permissions to edit errata

<scribe> ACTION: Shane - add 2 items to errata for XML Events 1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - - add 2 items to errata for XML Events 1 [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-22].

RM: next one goes back to XML Events, but XML Events 2
... not sure what done about comments -- think dealt with some, status?

SM: suggesting rename attributes -- we can't
... want to use attribute names that would collide with existing global attribute names, which we can't do

RM: put these in as items in action 3

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open

RM: will deal with first 2 items with my action

SM: avoiding topic due to security concerns

RM: will discuss why
... asked to look at HTML5 positioning -- SP still needs to write up that

SM: assign action in trackbot

<scribe> ACTION: Steven - Steven to write strawman on XHTML2/HTML5 wording [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-7 - - Steven to write strawman on XHTML2/HTML5 wording [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-10-22].

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/7

RM: editing newly assigned action item
... M12n status - follow up activities? XHTML 1.1 SE?

M12N Status

<Steven> All our XHTML Specs should be PERd

<Steven> , tho'if we want to include @target in 1.1, it may be more than a PEr

<Steven> not sure

SM: said would send out note on what tasks should be -- steven has chimed in and is right - just need to update all XHTML specs - can't put @target in 1.1 -- needs to go into 1.2

GJR: same with @lang

<ShaneM> we agreed to leave content model of 1.1 alone for the PER

RM: waiting for @lang proposal

<Steven> OK, wasn't sure of that

RM: 1.1 Basic? what does "all of it" mean?

<Steven> Some people won't be pleased

<ShaneM> XHTML 1.1, XHTML Basic 1.1, XHTML Print, XHTML + RDFa

RM: Shane can you create proposal

SM: plan is to produce updated drafts with schema -- will point to from all drafts will be ready by face2face

<scribe> ACTION: Shane - produce updated drafts with schema by face2face [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-xhtml-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-8 - - produce updated drafts with schema by face2face [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-22].

<ShaneM> Steven: I know that some people won't be pleased, but W3C mgt team said months ago that we could not make substantive changes to 1.1 - and that we should do it in 1.2

rssagent, please make minutes

XHTML MIME type

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtmlmime

comments: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0000.html

SM: supposed to respond to opera comments

<Steven> (By the way, I updated the Activity statement: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Activity)

RM: validator stuff
... is that closed?

SM: overcome by events

RM: ok

Other Lingering Actions

SM: finished first action, need to respond to simon

RM: comments from september

<Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0000.html

RM: went through this - action is for SM to respond?

SM: yes, second action

RM: plan?

<scribe> ACTION: Shane - reply to Simon's comments on behalf of Opera in regards XHTML Mime Type [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-xhtml-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - - reply to Simon's comments on behalf of Opera in regards XHTML Mime Type [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-22].

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/9

RM: what is bit about "craft text to about transformation of XHTML to HTML"

SM: Tina suggested if don't want to follow rules, can server-side transform your documents -- at least mention that that is an option
... requested "if don't have need to serve things as XML, but still want to use XHTML, should be possible to transform on server side to text/html -- think applies only to XHTML 1.0 -- maybe XHTML 1.1

RM: subject of Mime doc, right?

SM: no

RM: that's what people think of

SM: not used to using others

RM: what shall we do

SM: put text into mime document

RM: great - another topic out of the way

Role Attribute Module

SM: role ready to go -- just waiting on CURIEs - can deliver as package: Role, Access, and CURIEs could go to CR together after f2f if agree we are done
... action on GJR

GJR: ask PFWG why "similar" inserted into 2.1 of ARIA spec

and answser to ShaneM's query about Role and ARIA

GJR: AlG took action to explain why verbiage changed

SVG Issues Under PF Review: http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/SVG/Mobile12

<scribe> ACTION: Gregory - clear up status of why ARIA says "similar" to role [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-xhtml-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - - clear up status of why ARIA says \"similar\" to role [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2008-10-22].

RM: just waiting for CURIE to push Role and Access
... try to resolve to move forward at face2face next week

Access Module

GJR: first one overcome by events and should be dropped
... now we are modularizing Events in next iteration
... have action to bring up SVG's proposal for attribute 'order' to

ascertain if affects accessibility qua accessibility

GJR: discussed 'order' with PFWG and UAAG -- no engineering problems from PF; part of what UAAG 2.0 attempting to address

RM: document way document order access can be interpreted

SM: done

RM: so Access Module ready to go to CR?

SM: yes - position to do final look over on 3 docs whose editor's drafts i will update: Role Module, Access Module, and CURIEs - should submit as batch

[fyi] http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/IFrame

GJR: still option to disable IFRAME in most assistive technology, so a lot of problems not addressed

SM: key to issue: events can't traverse - can't bridge event models
... document says "you can't"

XHTML Features

RM: should have set of features documented as features - when did SCRIPT function, say "this implements a feature, not a namespace"

old action on shane: Shane create an initial features document that includes the

features from XML Events 2

RM: redefinition of Events into Handlers Module, Listener Module and Script Module

SM: granularity at module level which makes sense
... might make sense to have fourth feature -- the collection -- wouldn't hurt
... then could say implement all or implement this one

RM: inclined to get done in another group at moment; suggest once we assign features URIs and get CURIEs for them
... each feature has own URI, so can check with equivalent of DOMHasFeature to document feature supported; or IMPLEMENT this feature (script module)

SM: can we discuss versioning?

RM: put on agenda for next week - should spend time at TPAC
... how to connect script to something smaller than namespace

GJR: RWAB

RM: bootstrap bit of javascript to implement XML Events 2

GJR: RWAB will be roaming -- Charlie Weicha is chair, Steven is also member

SM: what time is it in cannes right now?

<Steven> 16:40

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=10&day=20&year=2008&p1=0&p2=159&p3=-1&p4=-1

SM: adding @implements independent of XML Events 2 - could do in modularization

<Steven> yes

RM: could get module devoted to that quicker than XHTML2

SM: make module; make spec

RM: want to talk about features

Tying up loose ends

SM: transfer action to trackbot to get on agenda for f2f

<scribe> ACTION: Shane - draft policy statement on migration and evolution [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-xhtml-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - - draft policy statement on migration and evolution [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-22].

<ShaneM> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0014.html

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/11

RM: MathML entity set published as own document

SM: accepted comments -- that is done

RM: formalizing our examples - should spend time on that - will be agenda item for next week
... out of time - anything to mention briefly?
... one item for next week is clean up all of actions that have been sitting on our agenda
... no call next wednesday -- face2face -- there is a face2face page on wiki
... take shane's proposal and add considering errata to policy statement on migrations and evolution

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/11

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-10-TP-FtF

RM: please watch the f2f wiki page -- will be populating it

ADJOURNED

<alessio> bye!

<Steven> She wasn't sorry?

<Steven> :-)

- DRAFT -

XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference

15 Oct 2008

Attendees

Contents

Open Actions in Tracker

Clearing Out Old Actions and Issues

M12N Status

XHTML MIME type

Other Lingering Actions

Role Attribute Module

Access Module

XHTML Features

Tying up loose ends

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output