14:39:16 RRSAgent has joined #backplane 14:39:16 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-backplane-irc 14:39:20 Zakim has joined #backplane 14:39:23 zakim, this will be rwab 14:39:23 ok, Charlie; I see INC_RWAB()11:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes 14:39:28 rrsagent, make logs public 14:39:34 danbri and i had thought of it as a proof-of-concept for ARIA before CR, but it is more a backplane project than a client-side project 14:40:13 http://groups.google.com/group/opensocial 14:40:20 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Aug/0022.html 14:40:25 Chair: Charlie Wiecha 14:40:45 Regrets: Kevin, Jack 14:42:59 [fyi] new public beta of best-selling (market dominant) windows-based commercial screen reader will support ARIA live regions - http://freedomscientific.com/downloads/jaws/JAWS-public-beta.asp 14:43:14 [fyi] just announced/released this week 14:46:19 [fyi] excellent ARIA live regions demo/proof-of-concept: "Making Twitter Tweet" http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=65 14:46:41 nice, that should be helpful for us 14:47:03 it is very impressive what the paciello group did with twitter, which is otherwise inaccessible 14:47:22 so my basic question for the meeting today is what could we do with a really focused effort (i.e. not a lot of time available) to show something interesting in a simple form like the loan one... 14:47:36 it would be great to reuse whatever the YUI framework already has for ARIA enablement 14:48:00 over the longer term we probably want to bake this in natively into the ubiquity framework but maybe can avoid this in the next month to get a demo working by reusing YUI support 14:48:01 http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/menuwaiaria.html 14:48:32 i can get victor tsaran, head of accessibility (a11y) at yahoo, to communicate with us -- i'm sure he'd be interested 14:48:44 ok, let's discuss during the call 14:49:44 http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/event/ 14:50:42 [fyi] haven't yet installed the new public beta of JAWS 10, but if i can get it to work reliably, i may be able to give the XG a better "picture" of what a difference ARIA makes 14:51:33 k 14:51:39 [fyi] i also use NVDA (open source windows screen reader) which has live region support and, on linux, Orca (http://live.gnome.org/Orca) which also has begun implementing live regions 14:52:27 [fyi] http://www.nvda-project.org/ 14:52:51 mac 14:53:06 but most of our development is still under windows 14:53:11 (i use parallels a lot) 14:53:16 lucky man - you have access to VoiceOver which is also enabling ARIA live regions 14:53:33 i'm split between a linux box and a bunch of semi-functional windows boxes 14:53:48 i've not yet taken the linux plunge 14:54:05 only reason i haven't gone totally linux is so as to keep in touch with the realities of the "average user" 14:54:58 INC_RWAB()11:00AM has now started 14:55:05 +[IBM] 14:55:05 when it comes to assistive technology, one is at the mercy of what the pertinent agency knows or -- worse -- at the mercy of an "exclusive vendor" who only demonstrate a very small sample of what is available 14:55:10 zakim, [IBM] is Charlie 14:55:10 +Charlie; got it 14:55:50 http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html#universalaccess 14:56:19 thanks for the link...will check it out 14:56:32 no problem - will dial-in momentarily 14:58:39 Steven has joined #backplane 14:58:56 +Gregory_Rosmaita 15:00:49 JohnBoyer has joined #backplane 15:00:54 Scribe: Rahul 15:00:59 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Aug/0022.html 15:01:16 zakim, code? 15:01:30 zakim is slow today 15:01:31 rahul has joined #backplane 15:01:32 the conference code is 7922 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven 15:01:40 zakim, dial steven-617 15:01:50 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Aug/0022.html 15:01:56 ok, Steven; the call is being made 15:01:58 +Steven 15:02:10 +John_Boyer 15:02:44 list of links from JAWS9 for http://ubiquity-xforms.googlecode.com/svn/branches/loan-form/_samples/Loan/loan-lowercase.html reported as "0 button" which, when chosen populated the form fields 15:03:11 smile 15:03:18 :-) 15:03:47 thomas has joined #backplane 15:04:10 [fyi] there is work on a date-picker widget in PF for an ARIA example that could be ported to the loan form's calendar picker 15:05:02 Topic: Presence at Tech Plenary 15:05:20 Steven: strong call for more demonstrations 15:05:46 Charlie: these will be longer than a lightening talk? 15:06:01 Steven: lots of space for presentations and discussions, so yes 15:06:43 Steven: CfP will go out this week, proposals within 2-3 weeks 15:07:50 Resolution: we will get a proposal or two in 15:08:01 Topic: Cross-pollination with other WGs 15:08:44 Charlie: spoke to Al, Dave (?) 15:08:49 -Charlie 15:09:01 will redial 15:09:02 sorry 15:09:07 Charlie: plan to meet with MMI Mon/Tue, spoke to Debbie Dahl 15:09:12 got dropped 15:09:19 Charlie: can also meet with Voice later in the week if needed 15:09:24 +[IBM] 15:09:30 zakim, [IBM] is Charlie 15:09:34 +Charlie; got it 15:10:26 [fyi] johnB, http://esw.w3.org/topic/GregoryRosmaita/FormsFeedback2008-07 (for HTML5 is being ported to the PF's HTML5 Issues & Requirements - http://esw.w3.org/topic/GregoryRosmaita/FormsFeedback2008-07 15:10:39 Charlie: might want to sync up with the Ubiquitous web WG (Dave R.) 15:10:56 [fyi] http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech 15:12:18 -Steven 15:13:03 Charlie: two webapps groups, mark-up vs. API level (?) -- might set up a meeting with them 15:13:23 zakim, dial steven-617 15:13:23 ok, Steven; the call is being made 15:13:25 +Steven 15:13:34 zakim, mute me 15:13:34 Steven should now be muted 15:13:54 JohnB: might want to evangelize the Ubiquity work to these groups -- connection to backplane and implementation avenue for standards 15:14:02 Topic: ARIA enablement 15:14:24 http://ubiquity-xforms.googlecode.com/svn/branches/loan-form/_samples/Loan/loan-lowercase.html 15:14:32 Charlie: we can look at the loan form Ubiquity example as a starting point 15:15:11 oedipus: makes sense, we are currently working on a datepicker widget, so I'd be interested in looking at the calendar from the ARIA enablement PoV 15:15:29 Charlie: lets see if we can converge on the scenario we'd like to show and the effort needed to implement that 15:15:49 Charlie: lets stick to the YUI case (since more of that functionality is available in Ubiquity) 15:18:02 Charlie: we have this notion of abstract control (where notions of relevance, data validity are expressed) -- which further can become an xf:input, xf:select1 etc., maybe we can look at ARIA enabling at this abstract level? 15:18:36 oedipus: from the point of assistive technology, I can think of the datepicker as a tree-grid for ARIA enablement 15:19:47 oedipus: datepicker ARIA enablement seems like a good thing to target -- its generally hard to translate these kinds of forms to various input / output devices 15:20:05 Charlie: is there a calendar widget in YUI that is independently being ARIA-enabled? 15:20:33 oedipus: not sure if it exists right now (can follow up with Victor) 15:22:50 Charlie: if it doesn't exist, we may be able to add that by making necessary changes on the Ubiquity side (?) 15:23:25 oedipus: entails adding scribe-by owned-by etc. ARIA properties to various elements of the datepicker 15:24:05 Charlie: not quite clear how we've made the point that the Ubiquity framework is ARIA-enabled 15:24:52 oedipus: this is a good starting point, and a way to identify the shortcomings and advantages for integrating ARIA mark-up 15:27:29 oedipus: was able to run loan form on Grand Paradiso nightly 15:27:49 oedipus: datepicker identified as button 15:29:02 rrsagent, make minutes 15:29:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-backplane-minutes.html Steven 15:29:34 Meeting: Weekly Backplane XG Teleconference 15:29:55 rahul: here is a full calendar URL (slow loading off SVN): http://ubiquity-xforms.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/_samples/yui-custom-controls/input-calendar.html 15:29:59 thanks steven! 15:30:14 rahul: actually, theres 3 calendars on that sample page! 15:31:16 Charlie: whats the live region for the datepicker? 15:31:38 oedipus: the entire calendar, so when it pops up it would announce what month and date its showing 15:32:21 oedipus: also would need to set up politeness / rudeness levels of various alerts 15:32:47 oedipus: in theory, the widget should tell you what is available -- and support step-by-step navigation 15:33:15 oedipus: there is a special mode in the screen reader called form mode -- there is a key overlay on the keyboard for the form mode 15:33:46 oedipus: when a form exists in a table, the contextual information is hard to get (in a typical flat form, mitigated by XForms) 15:34:08 oedipus: ARIA is trying to break things down in easily digestable chunks 15:34:55 Charlie: interesting to see how everything gets expressed in the datepicker mark-up 15:35:54 Charlie: can work with trunk code and a local version of the calendar source 15:36:54 Charlie: narrowing down to calendar widget is an interesting enough piece of work (and may provide some guidance for moving ahead) 15:37:50 Charlie: this exercise will help identify what ARIA bits we can harvest and drive down deeper into the Ubiquity library infrastructure 15:38:37 Resolution: oedipus to look at ARIA enabling the datepicker from Ubiquity trunk 15:38:59 Charlie: adjourn? 15:39:35 -Steven 15:39:37 -John_Boyer 15:39:39 -Gregory_Rosmaita 15:39:39 INC_RWAB()11:00AM has ended 15:39:40 Attendees were Charlie, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, John_Boyer 15:39:44 rrsagent, make minutes 15:39:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-backplane-minutes.html rahul 15:42:59 zakim, please part 15:42:59 Zakim has left #backplane 15:44:58 rahul has left #backplane 15:46:27 Charlie has left #backplane