IRC log of xproc on 2008-06-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:48:47 [RRSAgent]

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14:48:47 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-irc

14:48:54 [ht]

zakim, this will be xml-proc

14:48:54 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ht

14:49:01 [ht]

zakim, this will be xproc

14:49:01 [Zakim]

ok, ht; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes

14:49:19 [ht]

meeting: XProc telcon

14:49:28 [ht]

Chair: Henry S. Thompson (pro tem)

14:49:35 [ht]

Scribe: Henry S. Thompson

14:49:39 [ht]

ScribeNick: ht

14:49:49 [ht]

Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/06/12-agenda.html

14:56:23 [PGrosso]

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14:58:17 [ht]

Hey Paul -- good holiday?

14:58:21 [ht]

France?

15:00:01 [Vojtech]

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15:00:08 [PGrosso]

yes and yes

15:00:30 [PGrosso]

[weather could have been better, but the wine and food could not have been.]

15:00:40 [Norm]

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15:00:43 [ht]

Good good

15:00:49 [ht]

Ah, good Morning Norm

15:00:52 [Zakim]

XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started

15:00:58 [Norm]

Morning ht

15:01:02 [ht]

zakim, please call ht-781

15:01:03 [Zakim]

+[ArborText]

15:01:04 [Zakim]

ok, ht; the call is being made

15:01:06 [Zakim]

+Ht

15:01:09 [Norm]

Alas, I'm not going to be able to call in

15:01:12 [Zakim]

+Vojtech

15:01:15 [Norm]

Welcome home, PGrosso

15:01:51 [Norm]

Make what progress you can. It might be worth talking about the PSVI stuff in the editor's draft of a few days ago, if anyone has read it

15:02:19 [ht]

Not me, alas -- I am neck-deep in boxes, recycling bags, burn bags, etc.

15:02:31 [ht]

We're moving office, and I've been in this building for about 15 years

15:02:48 [Norm]

Ah.

15:03:07 [Norm]

No worries

15:03:19 [ht]

Apologies: Richard Tobin, Norm Walsh

15:03:54 [ht]

Present: Paul, Henry, Vojtech

15:04:35 [ht]

Last week's minutes: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/06/05-minutes.html

15:04:56 [ht]

Accepted.

15:05:20 [ht]

Next meeting: 19 June 2008, no regrets known as yet

15:05:49 [ht]

s/no regrets/regrets from Andrew only ones/

15:06:12 [alexmilowski]

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15:06:44 [MoZ]

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15:06:55 [MoZ]

Zakim, what is the code ?

15:06:57 [Zakim]

+alexmilowski

15:07:02 [Zakim]

the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MoZ

15:07:09 [alexmilowski]

grrr... phone lost its mind...

15:07:10 [Zakim]

-alexmilowski

15:07:31 [ht]

s/Richard/Rui Lopes, Richard/

15:07:43 [ht]

MoZ, are you planning on dialing in?

15:07:45 [Zakim]

+??P38

15:08:00 [ht]

zakim, ? is MoZ

15:08:00 [Zakim]

+MoZ; got it

15:08:20 [MoZ]

Zakim, ??P38 is me

15:08:20 [Zakim]

I already had ??P38 as MoZ, MoZ

15:08:27 [alexmilowski]

time for a new office phone...

15:08:35 [Zakim]

+alexmilowski

15:09:07 [ht]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008May/0040.html

15:11:01 [ht]

MZ: Features suggested by Alessandro's suggestions based on Haskell:

15:11:24 [ht]

... p:is-empty is covered by limit attr on p:count

15:11:43 [ht]

... p:pack has been added

15:12:20 [ht]

... split a sequence up until the first match of some pattern

15:13:07 [ht]

http://www.w3.org/TR/xproc/#c.split-sequence

15:16:39 [ht]

HT: Sounds straightforward

15:16:46 [ht]

... anyone see any difficulties?

15:17:07 [ht]

MZ: This gives us functionality for dealing with sequences which it's difficult, if not impossible, to get any other way

15:17:17 [ht]

HT: Better name than 'stop-test-after-first-false' ?

15:19:37 [ht]

... We get the initial subsequence which matches

15:19:46 [ht]

AM: I get it

15:20:05 [ht]

HT: How about 'initial-only'

15:20:55 [ht]

AM: It's going to be opaque, people will have to look it up to understand it

15:21:30 [ht]

RESOLVED: Add an 'initial-only' attribute to p:split-sequence, a boolean

15:21:41 [ht]

ACTION: Alex Milowski to add an 'initial-only' attribute to p:split-sequence, a boolean

15:22:17 [ht]

Topic: Serialization question

15:22:29 [ht]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Jun/0008.html

15:22:59 [ht]

AM: The origin of the impl-defined for the defaults for unspec'd serialization options comes from the QT Serialization spec.

15:25:41 [ht]

MZ: That's not what I was concerned about, rather that I read the spec. in 5.6 as allowing _other_ attributes which are not specified in the spec.

15:25:55 [ht]

HT: Oops, this section and 7.3 need to be cross-referenced

15:26:59 [ht]

s/and 7.3 need to be cross-referenced/needs to be cross-referenced from 7.3/

15:27:43 [ht]

AM, MZ: Discuss what 'unspecified' means here

15:33:52 [ht]

HT: I think that the intent was that 'unspecified' refers to _options_ which are missing for a particular step

15:34:06 [ht]

AM: Right

15:34:09 [ht]

MZ: Yes

15:34:49 [ht]

HT: But, alas, the Serialization step does not say that defaults are impl-defined

15:37:17 [ht]

HT: Propose to delete the "default value" sentence from 5.3

15:38:01 [ht]

RESOLVED: delete the "default value" sentence from 5.3

15:38:29 [ht]

s/5.3/5.6/

15:38:33 [ht]

s/5.3/5.6/

15:38:50 [ht]

HT: Propose to amend the reference to 7.3 in 5.6 to read as follows:

15:39:42 [ht]

The semantics and defaulting behaviour of the attributes on a p:serialization are as described for the corresponding options as described in Section 7.3, �Serialization Options�.

15:40:35 [ht]

s/as described in//

15:41:16 [Zakim]

-alexmilowski

15:41:19 [alexmilowski]

phone lost its mind

15:41:22 [alexmilowski]

...again

15:42:05 [Zakim]

+alexmilowski

15:42:11 [ht]

RESOLVED: Amend the reference to 7.3 in 5.6 to read as follows: "The semantics and defaulting behaviour of the attributes on a p:serialization are as described for the corresponding options in Section 7.3, �Serialization Options�."

15:45:33 [ht]

ACTION: Alex Milowski to draft a Note to add to 7.3 explaining that we don't give simple defaults, behaviour wrt missing options is complex and you have to read [Serialization] to find out.

15:46:59 [ht]

ACTION: Alex Milowski to add an error to 7.3 to cover all other parameter-related Serialization errors

15:51:30 [ht]

HT: I am opposed, it's a new feature, and it can be easily fitted into the existing spec. as an impl-defined serialization method

15:52:00 [ht]

AM: I'm opposed also, we should wait for Serialization spec. to provide for this, so we don't find ourselves isolated when they do

15:53:40 [ht]

[Oops, Scribe needs to add, before HT above, MZ: My email also proposes adding support for c14n to serialisation]

15:54:19 [ht]

MZ: So, do you mean there would have to be two new methods, x:c14n-with-comments and x:c14n-without-comments

15:54:57 [ht]

HT: No, I think you would have new options to go with impl-defined x:c14n method

15:56:00 [ht]

AM: What happens when Serialization _does_ add support for c14n -- do those attributes/options move from prefixed to unprefixed?

15:56:18 [ht]

HT: MSM would say "we should say 'Serialization or its successors'"

15:57:40 [Zakim]

-PGrosso

15:57:41 [Zakim]

-MoZ

15:57:41 [Zakim]

-Vojtech

15:57:43 [Zakim]

-alexmilowski

15:57:58 [PGrosso]

PGrosso has left #xproc

15:58:26 [ht]

AM: The problem is that it's not hard to allow for new serialization _options_, when there's a new Serialization spec., but adding _attributes_ in no namespace to p:serialization is not allowed

15:58:45 [ht]

... Maybe we should provide for this ahead of time, with a specific namespace.

15:59:06 [ht]

HT: We're out of time, AM please start an email thread on your idea, we'll pick it up next week

15:59:11 [ht]

Adjourned

15:59:19 [Zakim]

-Ht

15:59:20 [Zakim]

XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended

15:59:21 [Zakim]

Attendees were Ht, PGrosso, Vojtech, alexmilowski, MoZ

15:59:31 [ht]

RRSAgent, make logs world-visible

15:59:41 [ht]

zakim, bye

15:59:41 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #xproc

15:59:47 [ht]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

15:59:47 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-minutes.html ht

15:59:54 [ht]

RRSAgent, bye

15:59:54 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-actions.rdf :

15:59:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Alex Milowski to add an 'initial-only' attribute to p:split-sequence, a boolean [1]

15:59:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-irc#T15-21-41

15:59:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Alex Milowski to draft a Note to add to 7.3 explaining that we don't give simple defaults, behaviour wrt missing options is complex and you have to read [Serialization] to find out. [2]

15:59:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-irc#T15-45-33

15:59:54 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Alex Milowski to add an error to 7.3 to cover all other parameter-related Serialization errors [3]

15:59:54 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-irc#T15-46-59