14:43:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:43:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-forms-irc
14:43:39 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make log public
14:43:42 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
14:43:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlie
14:43:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Zakim, Charlie, wellsk, shepazu, nick, Steven, trackbot-ng
14:43:47 <unl> unl has joined #forms
14:44:05 <John_Boyer> Meeting: Weekly Forms WG Teleconference
14:44:11 <John_Boyer> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0067.html
14:44:18 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0067.html
14:44:27 <John_Boyer> Chair: John
14:44:30 <John_Boyer> Scribe: Leigh
14:44:33 <John_Boyer> Regrets: Erik
14:45:04 <Charlie> zakim, who is here?
14:45:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlie
14:45:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see unl, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Zakim, Charlie, wellsk, shepazu, nick, Steven, trackbot-ng
14:45:32 <Zakim> +John_Boyer
14:46:04 <Zakim> +wellsk
14:46:14 <Zakim> +unl
14:46:25 <unl> zakim, mute me
14:46:25 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
14:46:47 <Roger> Roger has joined #forms
14:47:30 <Roger> zakim, code?
14:47:30 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Roger
14:48:29 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
14:48:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlie, John_Boyer, wellsk, unl (muted)
14:48:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see Roger, unl, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Zakim, Charlie, wellsk, shepazu, nick, Steven, trackbot-ng
14:48:37 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:48:37 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:48:39 <Zakim> +Steven
14:49:20 <Steven> Mark says: I will be there...but about 15-20 minutes late.
14:49:58 <klotz> klotz has joined #forms
14:50:02 <Zakim> +Roger
14:50:10 <Roger> zakim, mute me
14:50:10 <Zakim> Roger should now be muted
14:51:28 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
14:51:50 <John_Boyer> scribenick: Leigh_Klotz
14:52:07 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
14:52:41 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
14:53:20 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0067.html
14:58:19 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0100.html
14:59:53 <unl> i'm experiencing many drop outs. call back in again
15:00:02 <Zakim> -unl
15:00:42 <Zakim> +unl
15:00:53 <unl> zakim, mute me
15:00:53 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
15:04:30 <nic1> nic1 has joined #forms
15:04:43 <klotz> nic1 do you hear us?
15:04:50 <nic1> zakim, code?
15:04:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), nic1
15:05:38 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:05:49 <klotz> John: What does "NameTest" mean?  I think what we ended up with, two Septembers ago, is that as an XPath expression is getting evaluated, any time we match a NameTest, we add that node to the list of nodes that are being referred to by the XPath expression. I think we did that so there would be more responsiveness of the compute system to predicate changes ("dynamic"), so if certain changes to the XPath happened, the various calculations would be able to detect 
15:05:49 <klotz> that a change of referencing it happened and would know to get recalculated.  Nick has an example, and has run into some problems.  If you execute the XPath expression he gives, you'll notice that it matches both of the 'a' nodes; if you read the expression from left to right, and look at the predicate next to the 'a', you'll notice it's trying to match 'a' whose attr value is 'X', but the way we've written the spec, it puts a in with x.  So if any of the a elem
15:05:50 <klotz> ents change, we respond to that; more importantly, if any of the attr nodes in any of the a's change, we'll respond to that as well, and that's part of the key.  For any 'a' value that we match, we have a NameTest against each of those attributes as well, so all of the nodes that feed a predicate are considered.  This seemed like a good idea.  The alternative was that we would only register the register as dependencies those identified by a completed Location St
15:05:55 <klotz> ep of an XPath expression, so from the predicate of the first 'a' step we might record only the element 'a' that matched the predicate.  So the question was should we record only the matched nodes, or feed in all those that are tested.  We went with the broader test, the one that keeps all references; that means we will follow all calculations.  If you notice in the 'a' element, if you imagine that being changed to 'X', we detect that change and re-run whatever 
15:06:02 <klotz> calculates might have that full expression; whereas with narrower references (location step) only the 'a' that has attribute 'X' would have been recorded and if you change the value 'Z
15:10:50 <nic1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0086.html
15:11:02 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #forms
15:11:54 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
15:11:54 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:12:45 <markbirbeck> waves back! :)
15:13:22 <Zakim> + +1.208.761.aaaa
15:13:27 <markbirbeck> akim, i am aaaa
15:13:34 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aaaa
15:13:34 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
15:13:53 <klotz> http://xformstest.org/klotz/2008-05-28.txt
15:14:35 <Charlie> * me too
15:15:00 <unl> I'm feeling fine
15:16:31 <nic1> I don't like to drop does extra dependencies, because I hate to add a rebuild to fix it
15:16:40 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0100.html
15:16:48 <nic1> (but that is my opinion)
15:18:53 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0086.html
15:23:05 <nic1> for the record, I don't have anything against the current wording, it adds the correct nodes to the dependency list in most cases I guess. And personally I only would like only to make changes if the change that __doesn't__ add extra cases where  a manual rebuild is necessary.
15:23:22 <nic1> (but this is what John is saying also)
15:24:44 <nic1> agree with that
15:25:40 <unl> i would like to keep the current behaviour, because this way can handle some dynamic dependencies just by static analysis
15:26:07 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0086.html
15:26:35 <nic1> yes
15:26:51 <nic1> unmute me
15:26:57 <nic1> zakim, unmute me
15:26:57 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken was not muted, nic1
15:27:15 <nic1> zakim, mute me
15:27:15 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:32:17 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0047.html
15:32:30 <klotz> ACTION: John Boyer to write a clarifying note in XForms 1.1 regarding dependencies and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0100.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0086.html 
15:32:30 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John
15:32:30 <trackbot-ng> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)
15:33:35 <nic1> I would expect also block-level elements
15:34:59 <nic1> you can style for example a <span> as a block level element
15:35:31 <klotz> <xf:message><xhtml:p><xf:input...
15:36:49 <nic1> UI.textOrStructureOrAnything
15:39:03 <nic1> (in XSL-FO flow is an element, containing all the flo stuf....)
15:39:11 <John_Boyer> UI.Inline
15:39:18 <John_Boyer> UI.Flow
15:39:22 <nic1> UI.Contents ?
15:39:32 <klotz> ACTION: John_Boyer to change XForms 1.1 document and Schema to rename UI.Inline to UI.Flow as a non-normative, editorial change.
15:39:32 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - John_Boyer
15:39:41 <nic1> but don't have a hard feeling about it ;)
15:42:37 <John_Boyer> s/UI.Flow/UI.Content and UI.Content.Extension
15:42:43 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:42:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:44:24 <Charlie> i can do that
15:44:27 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-XMLHttpRequest-20080415/
15:44:48 <nic1> XmlHttpRequest 
15:45:07 <Charlie> i can take events then
15:45:51 <klotz> link for events?
15:46:11 <klotz> ACTION: Mark Birbeck to review http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-XMLHttpRequest-20080415/ and present straw set of comments for discussion and approval at F2F.
15:46:11 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Mark
15:46:11 <trackbot-ng> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. mseaborn, mbirbeck)
15:48:10 <nic1> <p rel="foaf:homePage" about="[ex:home.html]">home</p>
15:49:29 <Charlie> * Leigh, are you doing the action for me to review XML events too?
15:49:39 <klotz> Charlie I need the URI for the document for you to review.
15:51:13 <unl> xml events 2: http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xml-events-20070216/
15:51:20 <Charlie> * i was looking too!
15:51:27 <klotz> ACTION: Charlie Wiecha to review http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xml-events-20070216/  and present straw set of comments for discussion and approval at F2F.
15:51:27 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - Charlie
15:51:52 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-events2/
15:51:57 <Steven> is the generic name
15:52:25 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-curie-20080506/
15:53:18 <klotz> ACTION: Leigh Klotz to review http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-curie-20080506/ by June 10th.
15:53:18 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-463 - Klotz to review http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-curie-20080506/ by June 10th. [on Leigh Klotz, Jr. - due 2008-06-04].
15:55:52 <Steven> Steven has joined #forms
15:56:09 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?
15:56:15 <klotz> http://rdfa.info/
15:56:21 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: John_Boyer (36%), Leigh_Klotz (9%)
15:56:54 <markbirbeck> http://planetxforms.org/
15:57:50 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0043.html
15:58:25 <Steven> Action: Steven to post http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0043.html to news 
15:58:25 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-464 - Post http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0043.html to news  [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-06-04].
16:02:27 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0060.html
16:02:34 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0061.html
16:04:23 <nic1> I started to write XForms 1.2 spec text, and it is taking quite some time to just change anything, probably bcz. it is the first time
16:04:46 <nic1> so I don't think I will have much time beside that before the ftf
16:07:32 <nic1> zakim, unmute me
16:07:32 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should no longer be muted
16:08:55 <Steven> Steven has joined #forms
16:09:44 <Charlie> i would love to help implement the simplified stuff 
16:10:35 <markbirbeck> You might not have a choice Charlie. ;)
16:11:58 <nic1> In the future I can also allocate some time to work on it (during my employers time)
16:12:15 <markbirbeck> Excellent nic1! :)
16:13:12 <markbirbeck> I've also had interest from one of the big Ajax library creators, who has their own XML language.
16:13:57 <markbirbeck> (Interest to add people to work on the library, that is.)
16:16:22 <Steven> We don't have an announcement of Ubiquity on our homepage either
16:16:33 <Steven> Anyone want to suggest text?
16:16:58 <markbirbeck> Steven...would rather get a nicer looking sample available first. :)
16:17:05 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
16:17:07 <Zakim> -Charlie
16:17:07 <Zakim> -unl
16:17:08 <klotz> http://xformstest.org/klotz/shibumiscript/2008/05/ubiquity-xforms.html
16:17:08 <Zakim> -John_Boyer
16:17:09 <nic1> bye 
16:17:09 <Zakim> -Roger
16:17:11 <Charlie> Charlie has left #forms
16:17:12 <Zakim> -wellsk
16:17:13 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:17:15 <Zakim> -Steven
16:17:16 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
16:17:17 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended
16:17:19 <Zakim> Attendees were Charlie, John_Boyer, wellsk, unl, Steven, Roger, Leigh_Klotz, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, +1.208.761.aaaa, markbirbeck
16:17:23 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has joined #forms
16:17:34 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make minutes
16:17:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
16:17:42 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
16:17:42 <Zakim> apparently HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended, John_Boyer
16:17:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see John_Boyer, Steven, markbirbeck, nic1, klotz, unl, RRSAgent, Zakim, wellsk, shepazu, trackbot-ng
16:17:44 <wellsk> wellsk has left #forms
16:17:52 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, bye
16:17:52 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-forms-actions.rdf :
16:17:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John Boyer to write a clarifying note in XForms 1.1 regarding dependencies and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0100.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0086.html  [1]
16:17:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-forms-irc#T15-32-30
16:17:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John_Boyer to change XForms 1.1 document and Schema to rename UI.Inline to UI.Flow as a non-normative, editorial change. [2]
16:17:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-forms-irc#T15-39-32
16:17:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark Birbeck to review http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-XMLHttpRequest-20080415/ and present straw set of comments for discussion and approval at F2F. [3]
16:17:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-forms-irc#T15-46-11
16:17:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Charlie Wiecha to review http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xml-events-20070216/  and present straw set of comments for discussion and approval at F2F. [4]
16:17:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-forms-irc#T15-51-27
16:17:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Leigh Klotz to review http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-curie-20080506/ by June 10th. [5]
16:17:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-forms-irc#T15-53-18
16:17:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to post http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0043.html to news  [6]
16:17:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/28-forms-irc#T15-58-25
16:17:54 <markbirbeck> Steven: Maybe announce it early next week?
16:18:09 <Steven> as you wish Mark
16:18:19 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has left #forms