17:43:03 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:43:03 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/20-ua-irc 17:43:14 Zakim, this will be UAWG 17:43:14 ok, Jan; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start 43 minutes ago 17:43:27 Meeting: WAI UA 17:43:50 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JanMar/0065.html 17:43:55 Chair: Jim Allan 17:43:59 Scribe: Jan 17:44:12 Regrets: Gregory Rosmaita 17:54:34 AllanJ has joined #ua 17:56:58 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:57:05 +[Microsoft] 17:58:55 +??P9 17:58:59 judy has joined #ua 17:59:07 zakim, ??P9 is really Jan 17:59:07 +Jan; got it 17:59:24 zakim, [Microsoft] is really KFord 17:59:24 +KFord; got it 17:59:53 +Judy 17:59:56 +Jim 18:01:35 JA: Has been talking to someone else about joining as an Invited Expert 18:02:15 Topic: Participation 18:02:30 JB: Met some people at CSUN 18:02:46 JB: Checking UA site... 18:04:51 JB: Jim, please send me email at end of meeting. 18:05:01 JB: ANother person... 18:05:12 JB: At discussion of media and captions... 18:05:28 JB: Person is an accessibility consultant 18:05:37 JB: Will send him mail to follow up 18:05:54 JA: I have some other cards as well 18:09:07 JB: We do need to be careful that when people step into meetings they sign the patent policy 18:09:31 JB: OK so it looks like we could be adding several new people 18:10:52 Topic: 1. First Public Working Draft & Charter 18:11:26 JB: Technically the draft is out as a dreft of a document on Note track 18:12:10 JB: Because our charter doesn't currently allow a new Rec track doc. 18:13:45 JB: JB: Wasn't caught as early as it could have been 18:14:30 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2007/draft_uawg_charter_21feb07.html 18:14:42 Existing charter: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/charter-20041107.html 18:14:57 Draft NEW charter: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2007/draft_uawg_charter_21feb07.html 18:16:11 JA: Milestones need to be changed but aren't too far off 18:16:52 JA: Based on CG call should we put formal dependencies on Compound Docs and WebAPI 18:17:36 JB: "Formal Dependency" means... 18:18:03 JB: Usually between PF and other W3 groups... 18:18:21 JB: What's needed here is that UA group will be reviewing what those other groups are doing 18:19:11 JB: Think charter generator has different wording 18:20:23 JB: Under this call most relationships would be through PF, and actually would want more direct ability to go directly to other W3 groups 18:20:53 JB: Former chair was frustrated by that 18:21:25 JB: Think its a good way to get progress in general on user agent accessibility support across WAI 18:21:58 KF: Agree that it's better if UAWG can contribute out rather than waiting for things to come in. 18:22:22 JA: Maybe just say "The UAWG may also interact with the following non-WAI W3C Working Groups." 18:22:36 JB: Maybe still makes sense to channel some stuff through PF 18:22:57 JB: So if promoting a particular strategy that should go through PF 18:23:45 JB: So maybe "except where we're coordinating on compound docs, Web APIs, or user agent support" 18:25:17 JA: "user agent support" too broad? 18:26:04 JB: I mean like guidance...SVG spec...so SVG players...so UAWG would help with developer guidance on player features 18:27:04 JR: Sounds ok, but no hard division possible 18:27:45 Action JR: Try out charter generator with wording to cover UAWG communication with other format groups 18:28:10 JB: All charters will get cross-reviewed in CG 18:28:27 KF: Other things that need to be changed are all the timelines 18:28:58 JB: Should be chartered through Rec and then follow on work....test suites etc. 18:29:15 JB: May make sense to charter for 2 or 3 year period 18:29:32 JB: Also under deliverables, specify v2.0 18:29:50 Action JR: In new charter clarify v2.0 18:30:16 JB: Charter should start July 1? 18:30:33 JA: Shouldn't charter pre-date draft? 18:30:48 JB: Can't predate what happened last week. 18:30:56 JB: But maybe we could say April 1 18:32:23 JB: Not just "Publish", "Publish Recommendation" 18:32:55 JB: "Develop test suites for user agents that render HTML and CSS. " seems too narrow 18:33:04 JA: What to add? 18:33:29 KF: Would we do the test suites? 18:33:43 KF: Shouldn't CSS suite go to CSS group? 18:33:55 KF: We should advise and contribute as appropriate 18:34:21 JB: Catch under W3C Process....Last Call...then CR...then final Rec 18:34:47 JB: Under CR need several interoperable implementations...test suites help prove this. 18:35:16 JB: So we need to do test suites 18:35:32 JB: It's another reason we need more people on the group 18:36:11 JA: So what happens if we;re doing HTML4 and then HTML5 comes out 18:37:08 JR: UA level of abstraction is higher 18:37:24 ... test cases are difficult 18:38:05 JB: In WAI we customize 18:38:56 JB: Requirements document could also be an exit criteria 18:40:36 JR: AU and UA have even larger problem 18:41:25 JB: Doesn't work that way in WAI 18:41:41 JA: John S. and I discussing this several years ago... 18:42:09 JA: WCAG tells them what to do...but needed to bring it into a user agent to do the test 18:42:21 JB: Sounds good 18:42:35 JA: Yeah but we didn't do it 18:42:56 JB: So maybe this is enough on the charter today 18:43:24 JB: Under "Scope" "Increase membership" should not be in there...should be in Participation 18:43:39 Action JR: Under "Scope" "Increase membership" should not be in there...should be in Participation e.g. 10 active members 18:44:41 Topic: 2. ARIA User Agent Implementors Guide 18:45:20 JA: Some discussion of whether UAAG wiki could be used....prob not 18:45:26 JA: But we should review it 18:45:50 JA: It's a huge document 18:46:00 http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/ARIA_UA_Best_Practices 18:46:09 KF: And more coming 18:46:37 JA: I heard that Safari is starting to incorporate HTML5 tags 18:46:44 JB: Really? 18:47:01 JA: Nothing prevents them 18:47:56 Maybe here: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/ARIA_UA_Best_Practices 18:48:11 Sorry: http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206904535 18:50:09 JA: Based on conversation with AG, the browser group will go off and talk about it. 18:50:34 JB: ANd if they want to come back to UAWG space should we welcome them? 18:50:41 JB: Yes 18:50:43 JA: Yes 18:50:48 KF: Yes 18:51:00 JA: Would they all have to sign up? 18:51:04 JB: Yes 18:52:04 JA: If we start doing this more with Pierre and Geoff is there a quick process page for this? 18:52:22 JB: Most on participation page already 18:52:28 JR: Phillipe 18:53:37 JB: So keyboard Agneda item to next week 18:54:53 JA: Anything on TEITAC wiki that we should point to? 18:55:06 JB: Yes and more coming - I'll send it along 18:57:02 JA: Can't make it on April 3rd 18:57:23 JB: Can't make it on April 17,24 18:58:09 JB: I'll be co-chairing the UAWG for a few months 18:58:18 JA: Certainly helpful 18:59:05 -KFord 18:59:11 -Jan 19:10:09 -Judy 19:10:11 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 19:10:11 Attendees were Jan, KFord, Judy, Jim 19:10:28 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:10:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/20-ua-minutes.html Jan 19:10:36 RRSAgent, set logs public 19:10:43 Zakim, bye 19:10:43 Zakim has left #ua 19:10:50 RRSAgent, bye 19:10:50 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/20-ua-actions.rdf : 19:10:50 ACTION: JR to Try out charter generator with wording to cover UAWG communication with other format groups [1] 19:10:50 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/20-ua-irc#T18-27-45 19:10:50 ACTION: JR to In new charter clarify v2.0 [2] 19:10:50 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/20-ua-irc#T18-29-50 19:10:50 ACTION: JR to Under "Scope" "Increase membership" should not be in there...should be in Participation e.g. 10 active members [3] 19:10:50 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/20-ua-irc#T18-43-39