00:00:00 <schneid> present: Achille Fokoue, Antoine Zimmermann, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Bijan Parsia, Boris Motik, Christine Golbreich, Deborah McGuinness, Ian Horrocks, Ivan Herman, Jie Bao, Mike Smith, Peter Patel-Schneider, Sandro Hawke, Sebastian Rudolph, Uli Sattler, Michael Schneider, Zhe Wu
00:00:00 <schneid> chair: Ian Horrocks
00:00:00 <schneid> scribe: Michael Schneider
(Scribe set to Michael Schneider)
00:00:00 <schneid> regrets: Markus Krötzsch, Evan Wallace, Elisa Kendall, Rinke Hoekstra
16:56:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-owl-irc
(No events recorded for 1016 minutes)
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-owl-irc ←
16:56:37 <IanH> Zakim, this will be owlwg
Ian Horrocks: Zakim, this will be owlwg ←
16:56:37 <Zakim> ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←
16:56:51 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.04.29/Agenda
Ian Horrocks: IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.04.29/Agenda ←
16:58:18 <IanH> Has anyone else called in yet?
Ian Horrocks: Has anyone else called in yet? ←
16:58:23 <bijan> I did
Bijan Parsia: I did ←
16:58:28 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
16:58:28 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH ←
16:58:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
16:59:45 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
16:59:45 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH ←
16:59:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
17:00:09 <schneid> I don't get feedback from Zakim
I don't get feedback from Zakim ←
17:00:17 <schneid> ... and I am Scribe!
... and I am Scribe! ←
17:00:28 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:00:28 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has not yet started, IanH ←
17:00:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
17:00:36 <bijan> zakim, what time is it?
Bijan Parsia: zakim, what time is it? ←
17:00:36 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, bijan.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, bijan. ←
17:00:42 <IanH> zakim, this is owl
Ian Horrocks: zakim, this is owl ←
17:00:42 <Zakim> ok, IanH; that matches SW_OWL()1:00PM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IanH; that matches SW_OWL()1:00PM ←
17:00:50 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:00:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, ??P30, [IPcaller], pfps, ??P0, +1.202.408.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, ??P30, [IPcaller], pfps, ??P0, +1.202.408.aabb ←
17:00:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
17:01:03 <schneid> I'm redialling
I'm redialling ←
17:01:07 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
17:01:33 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aacc ←
17:01:41 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aadd ←
17:01:51 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aadd is me
Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.603.897.aadd is me ←
17:01:51 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it ←
17:01:57 <baojie> Zakim, aacc is me
17:01:57 <Zakim> +baojie; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie; got it ←
17:01:57 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
17:01:58 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should now be muted ←
17:02:15 <bijan> zakim, ??p30 is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??p30 is me ←
17:02:16 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
17:02:19 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←
17:02:21 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:02:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, bijan, pfps, ??P0, msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), ??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, ??P26, bijan, pfps, ??P0, msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), ??P17 ←
17:02:25 <uli> zakim, ??P0 is me
Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P0 is me ←
17:02:31 <schneid> zakim, ??P17 is me
zakim, ??P17 is me ←
17:02:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
17:02:35 <Zakim> +uli; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it ←
17:02:37 <Zakim> +schneid; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +schneid; got it ←
17:02:41 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
17:02:45 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
17:02:49 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaee ←
17:02:50 <schneid> zakim, mute me
zakim, mute me ←
17:02:53 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should now be muted ←
17:02:58 <IanH> ScribeNick: schneid
17:03:03 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
17:03:04 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
zakim, unmute me ←
17:03:06 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
17:03:07 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
17:03:09 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: schneid should no longer be muted ←
17:03:17 <sebastian> zakim, ??P26 is me
Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, ??P26 is me ←
17:03:23 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:26 <Zakim> +sebastian; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +sebastian; got it ←
17:03:28 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
17:03:29 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:03:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, sebastian, bijan, pfps, uli (muted), msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +03539149aaaa, Ian_Horrocks, sebastian, bijan, pfps, uli (muted), msmith, baojie, Zhe (muted), schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan (muted) ←
17:03:32 <schneid> topic: role call
17:03:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see bmotik, Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bmotik, Zhe, uli, baojie, pfps, schneid, DeborahM, msmith, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, zimmer, ivan, sebastian, trackbot ←
17:03:39 <zimmer> Zakim, +03539149aaaa is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, +03539149aaaa is me ←
17:03:40 <sebastian> zakim, mute me
Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:42 <Zakim> +zimmer; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zimmer; got it ←
17:03:46 <Zakim> sebastian should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: sebastian should now be muted ←
17:03:48 <Zakim> + +0186528aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186528aaff ←
17:03:52 <schneid> topic: agenda amendments
17:04:01 <bmotik> Zakim, +0186528aaff is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, +0186528aaff is me ←
17:04:01 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
17:04:04 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
17:04:05 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:04:08 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:04:14 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
17:04:15 <Achille> zakim, ibm is me
Achille Fokoue: zakim, ibm is me ←
17:04:16 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←
17:04:16 <schneid> ian: QRG discussion at beginning, because some champions will have to leave soon
Ian Horrocks: QRG discussion at beginning, because some champions will have to leave soon ←
17:04:24 <msmith> they are not so good
Mike Smith: they are not so good ←
17:04:24 <schneid> topic: previous minutes
17:04:24 <pfps> minutes looked OK by me
Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes looked OK by me ←
17:04:35 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
17:05:11 <msmith> q-
Mike Smith: q- ←
17:05:12 <uli> ...perhaps Peter doesn't mind things petering out?
Uli Sattler: ...perhaps Peter doesn't mind things petering out? ←
17:05:12 <schneid> msmith: large parts have no scribing, only irc chat
Mike Smith: large parts have no scribing, only irc chat ←
17:05:25 <schneid> christine: it was difficult to write at the end
Christine Golbreich: it was difficult to write at the end ←
17:05:47 <schneid> ian: christine, could you again clean it up a bit
Ian Horrocks: christine, could you again clean it up a bit ←
17:05:50 <schneid> christine: i did
Christine Golbreich: i did ←
17:05:54 <Zakim> +bmotik.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik.a ←
17:06:00 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, bmotik.a is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, bmotik.a is me ←
17:06:00 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it ←
17:06:06 <schneid> christine: can anyone help me with clean up?
Christine Golbreich: can anyone help me with clean up? ←
17:06:17 <pfps> I don't think that there is anything particularly important missing.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't think that there is anything particularly important missing. ←
17:06:20 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:06:20 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted ←
17:06:24 <schneid> ian: trouble is that there is not much there to clean up
Ian Horrocks: trouble is that there is not much there to clean up ←
17:06:25 <msmith> ok by me
Mike Smith: ok by me ←
17:06:32 <schneid> ian: should we just accept them as they are?
Ian Horrocks: should we just accept them as they are? ←
17:06:46 <schneid> ian: if no one objects, then accept them
Ian Horrocks: if no one objects, then accept them ←
17:06:59 <schneid> topic: action item status
17:07:28 <schneid> ian: peter did Action 332
Ian Horrocks: peter did ACTION-332 ←
17:07:50 <schneid> ian: review of nf&r: next week
Ian Horrocks: review of nf&r: next week ←
17:08:00 <schneid> topic: documents and reviewing
17:08:09 <schneid> ian: we got comment on rdf:text
Ian Horrocks: we got comment on rdf:text ←
17:08:13 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:08:19 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
17:08:21 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
17:08:29 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:08:30 <schneid> ... don't know perfectly how to deal with these comments
... don't know perfectly how to deal with these comments ←
17:08:46 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:08:49 <ivan> zakim, unmute ivan
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute ivan ←
17:08:49 <Zakim> Ivan was not muted, ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan was not muted, ivan ←
17:08:51 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:09:13 <schneid> bijan: it's highly likely the sparql wg will have a comment on rdf:text
Bijan Parsia: it's highly likely the sparql wg will have a comment on rdf:text ←
17:09:56 <schneid> ... i was talking to andy seaborne, who is main pusher, and he thinks that comment will not be LC regeneration comment
... i was talking to andy seaborne, who is main pusher, and he thinks that comment will not be LC regeneration comment ←
17:09:58 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
17:10:07 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
17:10:07 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
17:10:09 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
17:10:13 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
17:10:34 <schneid> ian: hasn't andy seaborne reviewed it already
Ian Horrocks: hasn't andy seaborne reviewed it already ←
17:10:35 <sandro> (sorry I'm late.)
Sandro Hawke: (sorry I'm late.) ←
17:10:43 <schneid> bijan: yes, but not from the sparql perspective
Bijan Parsia: yes, but not from the sparql perspective ←
17:11:22 <schneid> ... there may be thinks that are surprising to him, and that he did not thought about before
... there may be thinks that are surprising to him, and that he did not thought about before ←
17:11:48 <schneid> ian: who do we have to work on rdf:text
Ian Horrocks: who do we have to work on rdf:text ←
17:11:52 <bijan> One thread: <http://www.w3.org/mid/49F6C028.1000006@deri.org>
Bijan Parsia: One thread: <http://www.w3.org/mid/49F6C028.1000006@deri.org> ←
17:11:55 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:12:00 <schneid> ian: probably boris
Ian Horrocks: probably boris ←
17:12:26 <schneid> ivan: axel is both editor of rdf:text and he is on the sparql wg
Ivan Herman: axel is both editor of rdf:text and he is on the sparql wg ←
17:12:48 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:12:49 <schneid> ivan: believes that axel is trying to take action on this
Ivan Herman: believes that axel is trying to take action on this ←
17:12:51 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:12:51 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:12:51 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:12:55 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
17:13:06 <schneid> ... and we can wait one more weak to see what happens
... and we can wait one more weak to see what happens ←
17:13:23 <schneid> boris: axel has already made some smaller changes to the document
Boris Motik: axel has already made some smaller changes to the document ←
17:13:29 <bijan> Him
Bijan Parsia: Him ←
17:13:40 <schneid> ian: we already have a comment on rdf:text
Ian Horrocks: we already have a comment on rdf:text ←
17:13:42 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
17:13:47 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
17:13:59 <schneid> boris: i made an informal comment to him
Boris Motik: i made an informal comment to him ←
17:14:16 <schneid> ... made clear that is personal response
... made clear that is personal response ←
17:14:25 <sandro> (boris' reply to Michael was good, and a good thing to do.)
Sandro Hawke: (boris' reply to Michael was good, and a good thing to do.) ←
17:14:33 <schneid> ... this guy was complaining about the "#"
... this guy was complaining about the "#" ←
17:14:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:15:27 <schneid> ... we maybe have to change the document to talk about qnames, but don't know how to do it exactly
... we maybe have to change the document to talk about qnames, but don't know how to do it exactly ←
17:15:30 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:15:38 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:15:40 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:15:50 <schneid> ian: can we have some try in the wiki?
Ian Horrocks: can we have some try in the wiki? ←
17:17:12 <schneid> ian: we forgot about the agenda amendmend: QRG
Ian Horrocks: we forgot about the agenda amendmend: QRG ←
17:17:35 <schneid> topic: agenda amendment: qrg
17:17:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:18:00 <schneid> jie: peter made several comments, many editorial
Jie Bao: peter made several comments, many editorial ←
17:18:58 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:19:06 <schneid> jie: links to other documents may be useful to new users
Jie Bao: links to other documents may be useful to new users ←
17:19:09 <bijan> q+ to ask about why it would useful to users new to owl altogether
Bijan Parsia: q+ to ask about why it would useful to users new to owl altogether ←
17:19:22 <schneid> ... specifically the links to the primer
... specifically the links to the primer ←
17:20:14 <schneid> ian: is the qrg close to ship?
Ian Horrocks: is the qrg close to ship? ←
17:20:17 <pfps> QRG is missing some constructs, still, I think
Peter Patel-Schneider: QRG is missing some constructs, still, I think ←
17:20:21 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:20:23 <schneid> jie: the web version seems close
Jie Bao: the web version seems close ←
17:20:28 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:20:28 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to ask about why it would useful to users new to owl altogether
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to ask about why it would useful to users new to owl altogether ←
17:20:55 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:21:17 <christine> q
17:21:21 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:21:37 <schneid> jie: people coming from owl 1 will find helpful links to nf&r to understand the changes
Jie Bao: people coming from owl 1 will find helpful links to nf&r to understand the changes ←
17:21:40 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:21:54 <bijan> I'm against the links to Primer too
Bijan Parsia: I'm against the links to Primer too ←
17:21:58 <pfps> q+
17:22:01 <bijan> But I was confused by what Jie said
Bijan Parsia: But I was confused by what Jie said ←
17:22:01 <schneid> christine: those links are useful
Christine Golbreich: those links are useful ←
17:22:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:22:27 <schneid> ... first they are harmless
... first they are harmless ←
17:22:37 <schneid> ... second helpful for navigation
... second helpful for navigation ←
17:22:48 <bijan> Some of us don't think they are harmless
Bijan Parsia: Some of us don't think they are harmless ←
17:23:03 <schneid> ... we should focus on content of document, not so much on the links
... we should focus on content of document, not so much on the links ←
17:23:22 <bijan> (Links are part of the content as well.)
Bijan Parsia: (Links are part of the content as well.) ←
17:23:27 <baojie> +q
17:23:34 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
17:23:40 <schneid> ian: only trouble, there needs to be actual means for the links
Ian Horrocks: only trouble, there needs to be actual means for the links ←
17:24:14 <uli> +1 to Peter: I thought these links would be "arguments"!
Uli Sattler: +1 to Peter: I thought these links would be "arguments"! ←
17:24:21 <schneid> pfps: disagrees with christine, they are harmful, introduce bloat, and extra bits not natural structure of the document
Peter Patel-Schneider: disagrees with christine, they are harmful, introduce bloat, and extra bits not natural structure of the document ←
17:24:28 <IanH> ack baojie
Ian Horrocks: ack baojie ←
17:24:47 <bijan> Also, I think the "new" will get dated
Bijan Parsia: Also, I think the "new" will get dated ←
17:24:49 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:24:56 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:24:57 <uli> q+
Uli Sattler: q+ ←
17:25:08 <bijan> q-
Bijan Parsia: q- ←
17:25:16 <bijan> I'll just say that the "new" bits will get dated over time
Bijan Parsia: I'll just say that the "new" bits will get dated over time ←
17:25:23 <schneid> jie: if we add the links... [help!]
Jie Bao: if we add the links... [help!] ←
17:25:33 <bijan> They won't be "new", so it's bad to *highlight* them
Bijan Parsia: They won't be "new", so it's bad to *highlight* them ←
17:25:50 <schneid> ian: modulo links, are people currently happy with the document?
Ian Horrocks: modulo links, are people currently happy with the document? ←
17:25:57 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
17:25:57 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←
17:25:58 <IanH> ack uli
Ian Horrocks: ack uli ←
17:26:25 <christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
17:26:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:26:32 <baojie> +q
17:26:48 <schneid> uli: i'm a bit puzzled because of the links, since the qrg was designed to be printed to paper, used offline at desktop, where there are no links
Uli Sattler: i'm a bit puzzled because of the links, since the qrg was designed to be printed to paper, used offline at desktop, where there are no links ←
17:27:09 <pfps> I also do not like the top-level divisions, and have expressed this in the past
Peter Patel-Schneider: I also do not like the top-level divisions, and have expressed this in the past ←
17:27:23 <bijan> q+ I think I should say it
Bijan Parsia: q+ I think I should say it ←
17:27:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:27:54 <IanH> ack christine
Ian Horrocks: ack christine ←
17:28:23 <DeborahM> q+
Deborah McGuinness: q+ ←
17:28:28 <schneid> christine: question, is it the fact that we don't want to point to the nf&r?
Christine Golbreich: question, is it the fact that we don't want to point to the nf&r? ←
17:28:44 <bijan> q+ to talk against highlighting new features
Bijan Parsia: q+ to talk against highlighting new features ←
17:28:51 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
17:28:51 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
17:28:55 <pfps> The NF&R pointers are bad in two ways - 1/ the "anchor" is distracting, 2/ the link itself is of very limited utility
Peter Patel-Schneider: The NF&R pointers are bad in two ways - 1/ the "anchor" is distracting, 2/ the link itself is of very limited utility ←
17:29:07 <christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
17:29:23 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:29:25 <schneid> ian: there's no other purpose of the things in the document than pointing to the nf&r [fixme]
Ian Horrocks: there's no other purpose of the things in the document than pointing to the nf&r [fixme] ←
17:29:31 <IanH> ack baojie
Ian Horrocks: ack baojie ←
17:29:47 <bmotik> akim, mute me
Boris Motik: akim, mute me ←
17:29:50 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:29:51 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:30:04 <uli> ok
Uli Sattler: ok ←
17:30:11 <schneid> jie: if we have www version with links, and pdf version without
Jie Bao: if we have www version with links, and pdf version without ←
17:30:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:30:14 <christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
17:30:22 <schneid> ... that's technically doable
... that's technically doable ←
17:30:25 <pfps> But the PDF version should have links! Just when printed they don't work.
Peter Patel-Schneider: But the PDF version should have links! Just when printed they don't work. ←
17:30:26 <IanH> ack DeborahM
Ian Horrocks: ack DeborahM ←
17:30:42 <bijan> It's easy with a stylesheet to target print vs. screen
Bijan Parsia: It's easy with a stylesheet to target print vs. screen ←
17:30:44 <pfps> q+ to remind us of the goals for QRG
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to remind us of the goals for QRG ←
17:30:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:30:58 <schneid> deb: my reading of the comments is that we have general agreement on the document's content
Deborah McGuinness: my reading of the comments is that we have general agreement on the document's content ←
17:31:29 <schneid> ... editors think that there should be a web version with and pdf version without links
... editors think that there should be a web version with and pdf version without links ←
17:31:34 <uli> sure - but I repeat Bijan's point: the NF&R links will 'outdate'?
Uli Sattler: sure - but I repeat Bijan's point: the NF&R links will 'outdate'? ←
17:31:41 <schneid> ... believe that more links in the web version are good
... believe that more links in the web version are good ←
17:32:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:32:06 <baojie> ok
17:32:12 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:32:12 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to talk against highlighting new features
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to talk against highlighting new features ←
17:32:14 <pfps> q-
17:32:15 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:32:15 <pfps> q+
17:32:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:33:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:33:07 <schneid> bijan: highlighting new features is not a good idea for this document, because users should not care about this
Bijan Parsia: highlighting new features is not a good idea for this document, because users should not care about this ←
17:33:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:33:24 <schneid> ... so isn't the highlighting already harmful
... so isn't the highlighting already harmful ←
17:33:33 <IanH> ack christine
Ian Horrocks: ack christine ←
17:34:30 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
17:35:05 <sandro> maybe time for a straw poll?
Sandro Hawke: maybe time for a straw poll? ←
17:35:12 <schneid> pfps: issue is that we should come up with a document that is a real recommendation for people
Peter Patel-Schneider: issue is that we should come up with a document that is a real recommendation for people ←
17:35:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:35:27 <bijan> I wonder if the authors could address my point that highlighting new things might be overall bad
Bijan Parsia: I wonder if the authors could address my point that highlighting new things might be overall bad ←
17:35:27 <schneid> ... not to make all wg members happy
... not to make all wg members happy ←
17:35:39 <bijan> Because they overemphasize them
Bijan Parsia: Because they overemphasize them ←
17:35:40 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:35:46 <schneid> ... there are still missing features, e.g. datatype stuff [fixme]
... there are still missing features, e.g. datatype stuff [fixme] ←
17:36:08 <schneid> ... lot has changed
... lot has changed ←
17:36:22 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:36:28 <christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
17:36:30 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:36:35 <schneid> ian: what about overall structure?
Ian Horrocks: what about overall structure? ←
17:36:39 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:36:44 <IanH> ack christine
Ian Horrocks: ack christine ←
17:37:01 <baojie> +q
17:37:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:37:17 <IanH> ack baojie
Ian Horrocks: ack baojie ←
17:37:20 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:37:29 <schneid> christine: question about functional syntax
Christine Golbreich: question about functional syntax ←
17:37:36 <bijan> I like the letters
Bijan Parsia: I like the letters ←
17:37:42 <bijan> Easier to pattern match
Bijan Parsia: Easier to pattern match ←
17:37:49 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:37:55 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:38:04 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:38:06 <pfps> possibly missing features - datatype definitions
Peter Patel-Schneider: possibly missing features - datatype definitions ←
17:38:07 <christine> OPE
Christine Golbreich: OPE ←
17:38:16 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:38:20 <baojie> +1 to bijan
17:38:21 <schneid> jie: "ce" makes printout larger [fixme]
Jie Bao: "ce" makes printout larger [fixme] ←
17:38:31 <bijan> MInor indeed
Bijan Parsia: MInor indeed ←
17:38:41 <schneid> ian: all these things are editorial minor
Ian Horrocks: all these things are editorial minor ←
17:38:44 <pfps> the basic outline is acceptable
Peter Patel-Schneider: the basic outline is acceptable ←
17:38:44 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:39:07 <schneid> ian: i don't hear anyone talking against general structure
Ian Horrocks: i don't hear anyone talking against general structure ←
17:39:20 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:39:20 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:39:24 <christine> Evan is not there
Christine Golbreich: Evan is not there ←
17:39:30 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:39:36 <schneid> ian: we should have a decision on the more concrete technical issues
Ian Horrocks: we should have a decision on the more concrete technical issues ←
17:39:51 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:39:57 <msmith> +1 to bijan's suggestion
Mike Smith: +1 to bijan's suggestion ←
17:40:09 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:40:09 <christine> what suggestion ?
Christine Golbreich: what suggestion ? ←
17:40:11 <schneid> bijan: want's to hear from editors about suggestion /not/ to highlight new features
Bijan Parsia: want's to hear from editors about suggestion /not/ to highlight new features ←
17:40:26 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:40:29 <msmith> I agree with the suggestion that new features should not be highlighted in QRG
Mike Smith: I agree with the suggestion that new features should not be highlighted in QRG ←
17:40:34 <sandro> +1 to not having the new-feature high-lighting.
Sandro Hawke: +1 to not having the new-feature high-lighting. ←
17:40:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:40:38 <uli> me too
Uli Sattler: me too ←
17:40:39 <schneid> bijan: if you are using this card for two years, do you still care about new features being highlighted
Bijan Parsia: if you are using this card for two years, do you still care about new features being highlighted ←
17:40:41 <christine> but keep (N) ?
Christine Golbreich: but keep (N) ? ←
17:40:51 <pfps> this document is a QRG to *OWL 2* so highlighting the differences only detracts from its utility
Peter Patel-Schneider: this document is a QRG to *OWL 2* so highlighting the differences only detracts from its utility ←
17:41:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:41:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:41:35 <DeborahM> my summary of what i heard is (1) make sure we address pfps's content suggestions, possibly a suggestion from uli on a small reorganization, (3) leave short names for the momentbut possibly expand if working group decide
Deborah McGuinness: my summary of what i heard is (1) make sure we address pfps's content suggestions, possibly a suggestion from uli on a small reorganization, (3) leave short names for the momentbut possibly expand if working group decide ←
17:41:41 <DeborahM> q+
Deborah McGuinness: q+ ←
17:42:23 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:42:28 <pfps> uli's suggestion would require a reordering of the document and a redo of the sections, but little more, I thin
Peter Patel-Schneider: uli's suggestion would require a reordering of the document and a redo of the sections, but little more, I thin ←
17:42:48 <IanH> ack DeborahM
Ian Horrocks: ack DeborahM ←
17:42:50 <Zhe> it is such a subjective matter :)
Zhe Wu: it is such a subjective matter :) ←
17:42:59 <christine> what about linking to NF&R for new features instead of Primer ?
Christine Golbreich: what about linking to NF&R for new features instead of Primer ? ←
17:43:30 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:43:32 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:43:40 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
17:43:56 <bijan> Or one could have a toggle
Bijan Parsia: Or one could have a toggle ←
17:43:59 <schneid> deb: sees a point with bijan's argument, bold too much, but no mentioning of new features is too less, either
Deborah McGuinness: sees a point with bijan's argument, bold too much, but no mentioning of new features is too less, either ←
17:44:00 <pfps> -1 to separate list on web version
Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 to separate list on web version ←
17:44:07 <bijan> q+ to suggest a toggle
Bijan Parsia: q+ to suggest a toggle ←
17:44:13 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:44:14 <DeborahM> +1 to ivan (with that list including links)
Deborah McGuinness: +1 to ivan (with that list including links) ←
17:44:17 <schneid> ivan: what about only having mentioning the new features on the web version
Ivan Herman: what about only having mentioning the new features on the web version ←
17:44:28 <uli> -1 to even more docs
Uli Sattler: -1 to even more docs ←
17:44:33 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:44:39 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:44:39 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to suggest a toggle
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to suggest a toggle ←
17:44:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:44:51 <pfps> -1 to toggling
Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 to toggling ←
17:44:58 <schneid> bijan: what about making the highlighting toggleable?
Bijan Parsia: what about making the highlighting toggleable? ←
17:45:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:45:14 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:45:38 <christine> +1 Ivan
Christine Golbreich: +1 Ivan ←
17:46:06 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:46:11 <bijan> I can live with it
Bijan Parsia: I can live with it ←
17:46:20 <pfps> q+
17:46:23 <baojie> ok with it
17:46:25 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
17:46:30 <DeborahM> i can live with ivan's or bijan's suggestion
Deborah McGuinness: i can live with ivan's or bijan's suggestion ←
17:46:41 <schneid> ian: ivan's proposal sounds most acceptable to most of us
Ian Horrocks: ivan's proposal sounds most acceptable to most of us ←
17:46:54 <msmith> I agree with pfps, but can live with the suggestion.
Mike Smith: I agree with pfps, but can live with the suggestion. ←
17:47:06 <bmotik> I agree with peter here.
Boris Motik: I agree with peter here. ←
17:47:10 <schneid> pfps: new'ness is not a point for this particular document
Peter Patel-Schneider: new'ness is not a point for this particular document ←
17:47:10 <bijan> I agree with pfps, but am with msmith
Bijan Parsia: I agree with pfps, but am with msmith ←
17:47:18 <christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
17:47:22 <bmotik> In a year from now, all features will be old (and dusty).
Boris Motik: In a year from now, all features will be old (and dusty). ←
17:47:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:47:25 <pfps> q+
17:47:32 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:47:37 <pfps> q-
17:47:39 <IanH> ack christine
Ian Horrocks: ack christine ←
17:48:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:49:02 <DeborahM> i have to run now. if we vote for ivan's suggestion i vote +1 for that but can also support bijan's toggling proposal
Deborah McGuinness: i have to run now. if we vote for ivan's suggestion i vote +1 for that but can also support bijan's toggling proposal ←
17:49:09 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:49:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:50:11 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.276.aaee ←
17:50:14 <schneid> bijan: prefers toggle, because it's weird to have information in the web version which is not in the paper version, when the paper version is the real target document
Bijan Parsia: prefers toggle, because it's weird to have information in the web version which is not in the paper version, when the paper version is the real target document ←
17:50:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:50:27 <pfps> I've been most in favour of making this document something that lives in the WG web pages, and is not a TR at all.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I've been most in favour of making this document something that lives in the WG web pages, and is not a TR at all. ←
17:50:34 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:50:44 <schneid> ... having a separate list is getting into other doucments responsibility
... having a separate list is getting into other doucments responsibility ←
17:51:00 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
17:51:07 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:51:20 <schneid> pfps: it's meant to be a simple document, but with toggles
Peter Patel-Schneider: it's meant to be a simple document, but with toggles ←
17:51:35 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:51:38 <schneid> bijan: is this particular thing such a problem?
Bijan Parsia: is this particular thing such a problem? ←
17:51:40 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
17:52:01 <schneid> pfps: toggle would need additional space
Peter Patel-Schneider: toggle would need additional space ←
17:52:08 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:52:15 <schneid> bijan: there is already additional stuff in the web version
Bijan Parsia: there is already additional stuff in the web version ←
17:52:21 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:52:43 <schneid> bijan: but links to nf&r in print version do not make much sense in genaral
Bijan Parsia: but links to nf&r in print version do not make much sense in genaral ←
17:53:11 <ivan> I am o.k. with bijan
Ivan Herman: I am o.k. with bijan ←
17:53:12 <christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
17:53:16 <schneid> bijan: deb said she can live with both bijan's and ivan's suggestion
Bijan Parsia: deb said she can live with both bijan's and ivan's suggestion ←
17:53:20 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:53:46 <schneid> christine: decision will affect nf&r
Christine Golbreich: decision will affect nf&r ←
17:53:53 <bijan> How does it affect NF&R?
Bijan Parsia: How does it affect NF&R? ←
17:54:05 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:54:10 <ivan> ack christine
Ivan Herman: ack christine ←
17:54:13 <uli> christine, toggle means 'switch-offable'
Uli Sattler: christine, toggle means 'switch-offable' ←
17:54:17 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:54:17 <uli> and switch-onable
Uli Sattler: and switch-onable ←
17:54:18 <pfps> the decision should be made today, as after we make the decision the document has to be fixed up
Peter Patel-Schneider: the decision should be made today, as after we make the decision the document has to be fixed up ←
17:54:42 <uli> (1) toggle (2) extra list
Uli Sattler: (1) toggle (2) extra list ←
17:54:49 <uli> (3) as it is
Uli Sattler: (3) as it is ←
17:55:01 <christine> how make switc-offable ?
Christine Golbreich: how make switc-offable ? ←
17:55:02 <uli> (4) throw all refs to new features away
Uli Sattler: (4) throw all refs to new features away ←
17:55:06 <msmith> 4,1,2,3
Mike Smith: 4,1,2,3 ←
17:55:15 <bijan> 4,1,-,-
Bijan Parsia: 4,1,-,- ←
17:55:22 <baojie> 2,1,3
17:55:26 <schneid> 4,1,2,3
4,1,2,3 ←
17:55:26 <bmotik> 4,-,-,-
Boris Motik: 4,-,-,- ←
17:55:27 <pfps> 4,-,-,-
Peter Patel-Schneider: 4,-,-,- ←
17:55:27 <zimmer> 1, 3, 4, 2
Antoine Zimmermann: 1, 3, 4, 2 ←
17:55:33 <bcuencagrau> 4,2,1,3
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 4,2,1,3 ←
17:55:33 <sandro> 2,1,3
Sandro Hawke: 2,1,3 ←
17:55:34 <ivan> 2143
Ivan Herman: 2143 ←
17:55:38 <christine> 1
17:55:40 <Zhe> 2, 3, 1, 4
17:55:42 <uli> 4,1,2
Uli Sattler: 4,1,2 ←
17:55:43 <IanH> 4,2,1,3
Ian Horrocks: 4,2,1,3 ←
17:55:51 <Achille> 2,1
Achille Fokoue: 2,1 ←
17:56:23 <uli> we could have a togglable extra list?
Uli Sattler: we could have a togglable extra list? ←
17:56:35 <uli> we can!
Uli Sattler: we can! ←
17:56:38 <schneid> ian: no one wan't leave things as they are
Ian Horrocks: no one wan't leave things as they are ←
17:57:19 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
17:57:27 <schneid> ian: we have either throw everything away or have the list
Ian Horrocks: we have either throw everything away or have the list ←
17:57:37 <schneid> bijan: second choice often toggle
Bijan Parsia: second choice often toggle ←
17:58:06 <schneid> ian: struggles with quick and dirty statistical analysis
Ian Horrocks: struggles with quick and dirty statistical analysis ←
17:58:22 <schneid> ian: nobody likes 3
Ian Horrocks: nobody likes 3 ←
17:58:33 <ivan> 214
Ivan Herman: 214 ←
17:58:34 <pfps> 4--
Peter Patel-Schneider: 4-- ←
17:58:37 <bmotik> 4--
Boris Motik: 4-- ←
17:58:41 <bijan> 4,1,-
Bijan Parsia: 4,1,- ←
17:58:41 <msmith> 4,1,2
Mike Smith: 4,1,2 ←
17:58:41 <uli> 4,1,2
Uli Sattler: 4,1,2 ←
17:58:42 <sebastian> 4,2,1
Sebastian Rudolph: 4,2,1 ←
17:58:44 <baojie> 21-
17:58:45 <bcuencagrau> 4,2,1
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 4,2,1 ←
17:58:45 <Zhe> 214
17:58:46 <zimmer> 1 4
Antoine Zimmermann: 1 4 ←
17:58:48 <sandro> strawpoll: (1) toggle, (2) extra list, (4) throw all refs to new features away
STRAWPOLL: (1) toggle, (2) extra list, (4) throw all refs to new features away ←
17:58:49 <IanH> 4,2,1
Ian Horrocks: 4,2,1 ←
17:58:50 <schneid> 4,1,2
4,1,2 ←
17:58:56 <sandro> 241
Sandro Hawke: 241 ←
17:58:58 <Achille> 2, 1
Achille Fokoue: 2, 1 ←
17:59:12 <christine> 1 2
Christine Golbreich: 1 2 ←
17:59:29 <schneid> ian: a bit more split between 4 and 2, but sees bijan's point
Ian Horrocks: a bit more split between 4 and 2, but sees bijan's point ←
17:59:42 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:00:32 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:00:42 <IanH> ack ivan
Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←
18:01:01 <bijan> Actually, I don't care anymore :)
Bijan Parsia: Actually, I don't care anymore :) ←
18:01:16 <christine> +q
Christine Golbreich: +q ←
18:01:22 <schneid> ivan: whether it is 1 or 2, there's no big difference, so bijan's proposal would be fine
Ivan Herman: whether it is 1 or 2, there's no big difference, so bijan's proposal would be fine ←
18:01:27 <bmotik> I won't lie down in the road.
Boris Motik: I won't lie down in the road. ←
18:01:28 <bijan> What do they prefer, 1 or 2?
Bijan Parsia: What do they prefer, 1 or 2? ←
18:01:43 <bmotik> I guess 2
Boris Motik: I guess 2 ←
18:01:49 <bijan> Ok, fine
Bijan Parsia: Ok, fine ←
18:01:51 <bijan> I go for it
Bijan Parsia: I go for it ←
18:02:05 <IanH> ack christine
Ian Horrocks: ack christine ←
18:02:23 <uli> christine, open a new connection?
Uli Sattler: christine, open a new connection? ←
18:02:37 <zimmer> ok for list at the end
Antoine Zimmermann: ok for list at the end ←
18:02:59 <sandro> strawpoll: list at end
STRAWPOLL: list at end ←
18:02:59 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:03:02 <bcuencagrau> +1
18:03:03 <baojie> +1
18:03:04 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:03:09 <IanH> 0
Ian Horrocks: 0 ←
18:03:09 <schneid> -0.1
-0.1 ←
18:03:09 <zimmer> +0.2
Antoine Zimmermann: +0.2 ←
18:03:10 <uli> 0
Uli Sattler: 0 ←
18:03:10 <bijan> +0
Bijan Parsia: +0 ←
18:03:11 <sebastian> 0
18:03:11 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:03:12 <Achille> 0
Achille Fokoue: 0 ←
18:03:13 <Zhe> 0
18:03:14 <msmith> 0
Mike Smith: 0 ←
18:03:16 <pfps> -0, as long as the list is very compact
Peter Patel-Schneider: -0, as long as the list is very compact ←
18:03:30 <bijan> Make it
Bijan Parsia: Make it ←
18:03:31 <sandro> 0.5 point font, pfps.
Sandro Hawke: 0.5 point font, pfps. ←
18:03:46 <sandro> ("point five point" :-)
Sandro Hawke: ("point five point" :-) ←
18:05:10 <IanH> All emphasis on and links to new features to go from existing tables. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.
Ian Horrocks: All emphasis on and links to new features to go from existing tables. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R. ←
18:05:24 <pfps> This looks fine.
Peter Patel-Schneider: This looks fine. ←
18:05:27 <baojie> ok
18:05:27 <ivan> yep
Ivan Herman: yep ←
18:05:44 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
18:05:44 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←
18:06:08 <Zhe> :_
18:06:11 <sandro> s/to go/will be removed/
Sandro Hawke: s/to go/will be removed/ ←
18:06:21 <msmith> Christine, you may find IRC more reliable if you try a different client, instead of the w3 web cgi.
Mike Smith: Christine, you may find IRC more reliable if you try a different client, instead of the w3 web cgi. ←
18:06:23 <pfps> As far as I am concerned, this list could even go in the card, if there is space.
Peter Patel-Schneider: As far as I am concerned, this list could even go in the card, if there is space. ←
18:06:32 <bijan> Yeah, me too
Bijan Parsia: Yeah, me too ←
18:06:44 <sandro> msmith, Christine can't read that!
Sandro Hawke: msmith, Christine can't read that! ←
18:07:26 <IanH> PROPOSED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.
PROPOSED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R. ←
18:07:33 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
18:07:33 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
18:07:36 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:07:38 <pfps> +0
18:07:45 <Zhe> 0
18:07:48 <baojie> +1
18:07:49 <uli> +1
Uli Sattler: +1 ←
18:07:51 <sebastian> +0
Sebastian Rudolph: +0 ←
18:07:52 <Achille> 0
Achille Fokoue: 0 ←
18:07:52 <bijan> +0
Bijan Parsia: +0 ←
18:07:54 <msmith> 0
Mike Smith: 0 ←
18:07:55 <zimmer> 0
18:07:57 <IanH> 0
Ian Horrocks: 0 ←
18:07:59 <schneid> -0
-0 ←
18:08:01 <bmotik> +0
Boris Motik: +0 ←
18:08:03 <christine> 0
18:08:04 <bcuencagrau> 0
18:08:10 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
18:08:28 <IanH> RESOLVED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R.
RESOLVED: All emphasis on and links to new features will be removed from existing tables in QRG. A new short table to be added to the end of the document with list of new features and links to NF&R. ←
18:08:39 <baojie> :)
18:08:44 <schneid> ian: is very happy on the resolution
Ian Horrocks: is very happy on the resolution ←
18:09:27 <schneid> topic: last call comments on owl (revisited)
18:09:45 <uli> I did
Uli Sattler: I did ←
18:09:54 <uli> zakim, unmute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←
18:09:54 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←
18:10:05 <schneid> ian: anyone other than peter and boris looked at umberto's comment
Ian Horrocks: anyone other than peter and boris looked at umberto's comment ←
18:10:08 <uli> zakim, mute me
Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←
18:10:08 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←
18:10:09 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:10:13 <schneid> uli: look fine
Uli Sattler: look fine ←
18:10:52 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:11:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:11:16 <schneid> ian: christine, is nf&r ready to go?
Ian Horrocks: christine, is nf&r ready to go? ←
18:11:23 <pfps> NF&R is looking quite reasonable
Peter Patel-Schneider: NF&R is looking quite reasonable ←
18:11:43 <schneid> christine: basically yes, but a few questions to peter's comments
Christine Golbreich: basically yes, but a few questions to peter's comments ←
18:11:59 <schneid> ian: ok, please discuss offline
Ian Horrocks: ok, please discuss offline ←
18:12:07 <sebastian> zakim, unmute me
Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, unmute me ←
18:12:07 <Zakim> sebastian should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: sebastian should no longer be muted ←
18:12:13 <schneid> subtopic: primer
18:12:32 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:12:34 <bijan> I'm working on it nwo
Bijan Parsia: I'm working on it nwo ←
18:12:40 <schneid> sebastian: we did quite some work on primer in the last week
Sebastian Rudolph: we did quite some work on primer in the last week ←
18:12:46 <bijan> Should be done tonight
Bijan Parsia: Should be done tonight ←
18:13:06 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:13:07 <pfps> Primer needs reviewing
Peter Patel-Schneider: Primer needs reviewing ←
18:13:10 <schneid> ... there are some things to be done by bijan
... there are some things to be done by bijan ←
18:13:18 <pfps> .... not shipping
Peter Patel-Schneider: .... not shipping ←
18:13:55 <schneid> bijan: there will perhaps some disagreement about the granularity, but mostly editorial
Bijan Parsia: there will perhaps some disagreement about the granularity, but mostly editorial ←
18:14:01 <sebastian> zakim, mute me
Sebastian Rudolph: zakim, mute me ←
18:14:01 <Zakim> sebastian should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: sebastian should now be muted ←
18:14:04 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:14:09 <schneid> ian: volunteers for reviewing?
Ian Horrocks: volunteers for reviewing? ←
18:14:38 <msmith> I can review by 13 May
Mike Smith: I can review by 13 May ←
18:14:44 <schneid> ... would be due 13 May
... would be due 13 May ←
18:15:13 <pfps> earlier reviews are much better, and more likely to be effective :-)
Peter Patel-Schneider: earlier reviews are much better, and more likely to be effective :-) ←
18:15:15 <schneid> ian: will take it offline and ask, but msmith will be the number one
Ian Horrocks: will take it offline and ask, but msmith will be the number one ←
18:15:44 <schneid> topic: implementation and testcases
18:15:47 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:15:57 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:16:02 <schneid> ian: there is this validation tool issue
Ian Horrocks: there is this validation tool issue ←
18:16:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:16:11 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
18:16:40 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
18:16:45 <schneid> ian: seems to use the owl api for reading ontologies
Ian Horrocks: seems to use the owl api for reading ontologies ←
18:17:12 <schneid> msmith: we don't have anything for species validation
Mike Smith: we don't have anything for species validation ←
18:17:58 <schneid> ian: we would like to have species validation for owl/xml [fixme]
Ian Horrocks: we would like to have species validation for owl/xml [fixme] ←
18:18:19 <schneid> ian: all i know is that some things are repaired away
Ian Horrocks: all i know is that some things are repaired away ←
18:18:59 <schneid> ian: can we talk to owl api people to have some strict mode?
Ian Horrocks: can we talk to owl api people to have some strict mode? ←
18:19:11 <msmith> action bijan to talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing
Mike Smith: action bijan to talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing ←
18:19:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-335 - Talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-05-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-335 - Talk with owlapi people about strict rdf/xml parsing [on Bijan Parsia - due 2009-05-06]. ←
18:19:12 <schneid> topic: progress report
18:19:15 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
18:19:15 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:19:19 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
18:19:28 <bijan> I wrote tests!
Bijan Parsia: I wrote tests! ←
18:19:46 <schneid> msmith: little bit of progress, new page on wiki showing results for pellet and hermit
Mike Smith: little bit of progress, new page on wiki showing results for pellet and hermit ←
18:19:57 <bijan> Pointer to those tests?
Bijan Parsia: Pointer to those tests? ←
18:20:01 <bijan> result?
Bijan Parsia: result? ←
18:20:05 <pfps> is there a link from the home page or LHS of the wiki to the current test status?
Peter Patel-Schneider: is there a link from the home page or LHS of the wiki to the current test status? ←
18:20:06 <schneid> ... some new tests, and some changed status
... some new tests, and some changed status ←
18:20:25 <schneid> ... new page showing coverage of the language
... new page showing coverage of the language ←
18:20:42 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status
Mike Smith: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status ←
18:20:53 <schneid> ian: how many tests do we have now?
Ian Horrocks: how many tests do we have now? ←
18:21:18 <schneid> ian: do we have one test for each construct?
Ian Horrocks: do we have one test for each construct? ←
18:21:35 <bijan> I have them
Bijan Parsia: I have them ←
18:21:46 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status
Mike Smith: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Suite_Status ←
18:22:01 <schneid> ian: what about results and putting on wiki?
Ian Horrocks: what about results and putting on wiki? ←
18:22:15 <schneid> bijan: that's what the status page is about
Bijan Parsia: that's what the status page is about ←
18:22:50 <schneid> msmith: there is an "incomplete" result, including timeout etc
Mike Smith: there is an "incomplete" result, including timeout etc ←
18:22:59 <schneid> ian: what about "extra credit"?
Ian Horrocks: what about "extra credit"? ←
18:23:22 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:23:27 <schneid> ... looks better when exiting cr
... looks better when exiting cr ←
18:23:47 <schneid> bijan: we should make sure to cover all syntactic features
Bijan Parsia: we should make sure to cover all syntactic features ←
18:23:51 <msmith> ok
Mike Smith: ok ←
18:23:55 <msmith> q+
Mike Smith: q+ ←
18:24:03 <IanH> ack msmith
Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←
18:24:17 <bijan> 1 reasoner does it :)
Bijan Parsia: 1 reasoner does it :) ←
18:24:36 <schneid> msmith: how do we get "extra credit" testcases?
Mike Smith: how do we get "extra credit" testcases? ←
18:26:15 <schneid> ian: let's defer syntactic tests: no time, no alanr
Ian Horrocks: let's defer syntactic tests: no time, no alanr ←
18:26:33 <schneid> topic: aob
18:26:57 <Zhe> bye
18:26:59 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
18:27:00 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
18:27:01 <schneid> ian: we're don
Ian Horrocks: we're don ←
18:27:01 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
18:27:03 <Zakim> -baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie ←
18:27:05 <zimmer> bye
Antoine Zimmermann: bye ←
18:27:06 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
18:27:10 <sebastian> Bye.
Sebastian Rudolph: Bye. ←
18:27:11 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau ←
18:27:16 <Zakim> -Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←
18:27:31 <Zakim> -zimmer
Zakim IRC Bot: -zimmer ←
18:27:31 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public
Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public ←
18:27:38 <uli> Ian, check the following link out (during dinner!):
Uli Sattler: Ian, check the following link out (during dinner!): ←
18:27:47 <uli> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19zFlPah-o
Uli Sattler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19zFlPah-o ←
18:28:32 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
18:28:38 <Zakim> -Ian_Horrocks
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ian_Horrocks ←
18:28:43 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
18:28:44 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
18:28:46 <Zakim> -uli
Zakim IRC Bot: -uli ←
18:28:56 <Zakim> -sebastian
Zakim IRC Bot: -sebastian ←
18:29:19 <Zakim> -??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22 ←
18:29:45 <Zakim> -schneid
Zakim IRC Bot: -schneid ←
18:29:46 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended ←
18:29:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Ian_Horrocks, [IPcaller], pfps, +1.202.408.aabb, msmith, +1.518.276.aacc, Zhe, baojie, bijan, uli, schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan, sebastian, zimmer, bmotik,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ian_Horrocks, [IPcaller], pfps, +1.202.408.aabb, msmith, +1.518.276.aacc, Zhe, baojie, bijan, uli, schneid, +1.518.276.aaee, Ivan, sebastian, zimmer, bmotik, ←
18:29:49 <sandro> insane, uli !
Sandro Hawke: insane, uli ! ←
18:29:51 <Zakim> ... Achille, bcuencagrau, Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Achille, bcuencagrau, Sandro ←
18:41:27 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public
(No events recorded for 11 minutes)
Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2009-05-01 12:26:49 UTC by 'ihorrock2', comments: None