14:02:02 RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
14:02:02 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-irc
14:02:11 zakim, room for 10?
14:02:13 ok, Steven; conference Team_(xhtml)14:02Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1502Z
14:02:17 NOTE CODE
14:02:21 Team_(xhtml)14:02Z has now started
14:02:22 CONF2
14:02:29 +ShaneM
14:02:30 zakim, dial steven-617
14:02:30 ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:02:31 +Steven
14:03:00 first time, "call has not yet started" -- second time "invalid conference code"
14:03:03 rrsagent, make log public
14:03:11 +Roland
14:03:15 Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
14:03:18 use the code 26632
14:03:39 yamx has joined #xhtml
14:03:46 thanks shane -- too many aural streams at once...
14:03:46 Chair: Roland
14:03:51 Scribe: Steven
14:04:17 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0043
14:04:25 +Gregory_Rosmaita
14:04:47 Steven has changed the topic to: Code 26632; Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0043
14:05:18 --> Previous http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-minutes
14:05:30 rrsagent, make minutes
14:05:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
14:05:56 Regrets: MarkB
14:06:15 zakim, who is here?
14:06:15 On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, +013868aaaa, Gregory_Rosmaita
14:06:16 On IRC I see yamx, RRSAgent, Zakim, oedipus, Roland, myakura, ShaneM, Lachy, Steven, krijnh
14:06:32 The call returned "conference is restricted at this time", what is it?
14:06:33 zakim, +0 is Roland
14:06:34 +Roland; got it
14:07:19 Rich has joined #xhtml
14:08:44 Topic: Calls over the holiday period
14:09:04 Roland: I'm not here the 26th
14:09:21 Steven: I'm away for December
14:09:22 I am being told the conference is restricted
14:09:30 Rich, note new code
14:09:38 26632
14:09:48 Roland: Call OK for next week
14:09:49 GJR: no problem with call on december 19
14:09:53 Roiland: 19th OK?
14:10:00 ... Ok we assume the 19th is OK
14:10:05 ... no call on the 26th
14:10:39 boxing day the only skipped date?
14:10:43 ... we resume on the 2nd?
14:10:56 +[IBM]
14:11:01 ... so we miss just one week, the 26th of December
14:11:38 zakim, +[ is Rich
14:11:38 sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '+['
14:11:46 zakim, [ is Rich
14:11:46 +Rich; got it
14:12:04 Roland: I will do agendas for this month
14:12:16 Steven: I will be around in case of need (for instance transition calls)
14:12:29 markbirbeck has joined #xhtml
14:12:35 Topic: Announcements
14:12:52 Roland: We produced a new draft of CURIEs last week
14:12:55 alessio has joined #xhtml
14:13:22 ... and we have a request outstanding for FPWD of Access
14:13:31 hi... sorry I'm late, is it possible to join actually?
14:13:41 yes, see topic Alessio
14:13:45 different code
14:13:54 ahhhhh tanks ;)
14:13:56 Roland: And ITS review?
14:14:00 Shane: We are happy with it
14:14:05 thanks
14:14:11 ACTION: Steven to send ITS review (=thanksyou, it's fine)
14:14:19 Topic: Testing of XHTML Basic 1.1
14:14:29 Hello all...first I apologise for forgetting that we are an hour earlier this week, but second, I won't be able to make it, since a meeting has come up for 2.30pm, so I'm leaving the office now. All the best.
14:14:33 +??P13
14:14:47 zakim, ??P13 is Alessio
14:14:47 +Alessio; got it
14:14:58 +[IPcaller]
14:15:21 P13 is yamx, I think.
14:15:24 Zakim, Alessio is Yam
14:15:24 +Yam; got it
14:15:25 yes
14:15:32 zakim, [IP is Alessio
14:15:32 +Alessio; got it
14:16:27 Roland: Yam, are you able to report on this now?
14:16:54 Yam: At least my colleague is testing inputmode, so it is on the way
14:17:01 Roland: When might it be done?
14:17:06 Yam: Next week I think
14:17:09 Tina has joined #xhtml
14:17:19 Steven: That's good news
14:17:40 Yam: I think we are on schedule with the implementation
14:18:00 ... the team spotted two errors, and are fixing that
14:18:26 ... all three test cases are tested in out technical team
14:18:33 s/out/our/
14:18:53 s/thanksyou/thankyou/
14:19:04 Topic: Title issue (RDFa vs Role)
14:19:21 GJR: RDFa versus Role to be discussed at today's telecon
14:19:25 Roland: There was going to be a followup meeting on this
14:20:32 Steven: Rich, what is your take on the current opinions in the PF about the use of role for title?
14:20:43 Rich: Well, clearly title isn't a unique thing
14:20:54 ... since it may apply to many sections
14:21:26 ... it hasn't been proven to me why you need a title element for sections and the whole document
14:21:34 ... maybe because of iframe
14:23:05 Steven: So we have a way to do that, the property element equal to dc:title
14:23:18 s/element/attribute/
14:23:42 ...
My life
14:24:09 Rick: We also have labelledby
14:24:15 s/Rick/Rich/
14:24:20 Note that the RDFa spec does not say that something with a property of dc:title is the same as / overrides the title element.
14:24:35 GJR: labelledby for today, RDFa for next round
14:25:46 Steven: I agree that role is the wrong way to do it
14:25:55 ... but the use case is still covered
14:26:12 Roland: SO the short term goal is role, and the long term goal is RDFa
14:26:16 s/SO/So/
14:26:38 GJR: short term goal is "labelledby" (ARIA syntax); long term goal is to use RDFa and explore means of communicating RDFa to Assistive Technologies
14:27:26 Steven: You can also say
Future tasks
14:27:56 ... which says what the title is for some subsection
14:28:05 original example:
Record #35793: Title of Document or Sub-Document or portion of document
14:28:17 thread starts here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2007OctDec/0191.html
14:28:26 ROland: If we are happy, let's move on
14:28:31 s/RO/Ro/
14:28:33 short term solution:
14:28:33
(which will become the first decision)
14:45:08 right
14:45:25 Rich: And was there for that
14:46:53 Steve: handler specs, purpose element -- strictly speaking with so many types of handlers, good to have solution that addresses that as well; idea of purpose description is very good one -- if can find way to do it; Mark suggested role, i can envision using RDFa to pass description of handler (metadata in a way)
14:47:16 RS: place to put text, associate text with handler via RDFa -- mechanism to put actual text in handler?
14:47:46 Rich: liked Roland's proposal -- similar to solution for XForms
14:48:19 Roland: why not provide information - this is a label, this is what it does, hint can be obtained on user request (tell me more about this)
14:48:29 Steve: label in relation to handler?
14:48:38 Rich: don't see how label fits for handler
14:48:56 Roland: if here is a trigger and this is the handler for it, could get label from handler
14:49:02 Steve: have to think about that
14:49:36 Roland: have as many as want in UI - don't have to write twice; and can get supporting materials
14:49:42 Rich: XML Events -- how to do?
14:49:50 Roland: can still have element as child of handler
14:50:05 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007OctDec/0027.html
14:50:29
14:50:30
14:50:30 performing this action will delight you..
14:50:30
14:50:33
14:51:04 Shane: Any of this is fine
14:51:16 ... only as long as we don't overengineer it
14:51:34 Roland: No one says we have to do all three
14:51:38 ... but in XForms we do
14:51:46 ... a label for the UI layer
14:51:50 q+
14:52:07 Shane: WHat is the UA requirement for a label
14:52:20 Roland: That it is presented to the user
14:52:24 s/WH/Wh/
14:52:34 s/label/label?/
14:52:45 GJR: can use "prolog" in ARIA concept to provide richer, fuller human-understandable information about specifics of choice (if choice available)
14:52:55 Shane: If I have a span
14:53:04 ... and associate an access key with it
14:53:21 ... and a handler that is invoked by that key
14:53:36 ... if the handler has a label, how does that get manifested?
14:53:45 Roland: I don't think it does
14:53:51 Shane: OK, good
14:54:32 Rich: So do we need all 3 in XML Events2?
14:54:45 Roland: Well, I was suggesting su=ynergy with stuff we have already
14:54:50 ... you don't HAVE to use them
14:55:01 s/su=/s/
14:55:08 Rich: I see, fine
14:55:21 ... I see a way of mapping it to the accessibility API
14:55:53 Gregory: See my comment abouyt 'prologg' in aria
14:55:58 s/yt/t/
14:56:03 s/gg/g/
14:56:08 ... above
14:56:33 So I think what I need to do is steal the label, hint, and help elements from XForms and put them into XML Events 2?
14:56:33 Rich: If we had a declarative model, like XForms data model, we could do this all a lot easier
14:57:02 Roland: So I'm saying XForms, and therefore XHTML2 has this already, so why not reuse it rather than reinventing stuff
14:57:22 Shand: DO you mean add it to handlers?
14:57:26 Roland: Yes
14:57:32 s/DO?Do/
14:57:33 +1 add to handlers and reuse in XForms
14:57:36 s/DO/Do/
14:57:38 +1
14:58:13 s/Shand/Shane/
14:58:18 ack oe
14:58:58 Rich: So we'll be using XML Evbents2 in XHTML2?
14:58:58 +q
14:59:14 Steven: That is the plan, but there is an overlap with XForms,which still uses XML Events 1
14:59:22 ... and we will use XForms 1.1
15:00:10 Rich: XHTML2 is not fully supported in the browser, and there is HTML, we are looking at a dual timeline in the WAI area
15:00:21 Sack Sh
15:00:26 ack sh
15:00:34 Topic: CURIEs
15:00:46 Shane: I would like to go to last call in 2 weeks on CURIEs
15:00:52 ... just to push the fight
15:01:24 ... we can deal with the comments
15:01:35 Steven: Length?
15:01:43 Roland: TIll late January
15:01:48 ... for the ftf
15:01:53 Shane: 6 or 7 weeks
15:02:10 Steven: Any objections
15:02:22 Shane: I will prepare a draft for next week's call
15:02:36 Steven: Will put on the agenda
15:02:50 -ShaneM
15:02:51 -Rich
15:02:52 -Steven
15:02:54 -Roland
15:02:55 -Gregory_Rosmaita
15:02:55 -Alessio
15:02:56 Team_(xhtml)14:02Z has ended
15:02:57 Attendees were ShaneM, Steven, Roland, Gregory_Rosmaita, [IBM], Rich, [IPcaller], Yam, Alessio
15:03:05 ACTION: Roland put last call of CURIES on next week's agenda
15:03:17 ACTION: SHane prepare a new draft of CURIES for next week
15:03:24 s/SH/Sh/G
15:03:30 rrsagent, make minutes
15:03:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:04:02 Present+Tina(remote)
15:04:06 rrsagent, make minutes
15:04:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:08:59 CSB has joined #xhtml
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15:14:08 hi, steve?
15:16:44 Me?
15:16:58 Hi Christina
15:17:07 now I realise who you are :-)
15:17:19 :)
15:17:45 didn't see any traffic and wanted to check that my setup was correct.
15:18:16 Oops. We decided to move the call an hour earlier, for the sake of our Japanese colleagues
15:18:28 Did you not see the traffic around that?
15:18:44 one hour earlier than the 1400utc in the agenda?
15:18:58 No, 14:00UTC is right
15:19:06 it is now 15:18 UTC
15:19:09 I thought the adgenda time would have taken that into account?
15:19:32 really, my converter said 1400utc was 10 am Atlantic. Ugh
15:20:03 well, maybe we can talk about the best way to give spec feedback?
15:20:34 sure
15:21:40 I was thinking notes corresponding to the section numbers.
15:22:41 Sounds perfect
15:23:04 Every section has it's own URL, so quoting that and then the comments would help the editors
15:23:12 s/it's/its/
15:23:20 (I hate people who do that :-) )
15:23:25 :)
15:23:31 I can do that.
15:23:52 and the correct version of the spec that I should look at is at?
15:25:27 the latest editor's draft
15:25:29 and I think we said before it was better to give feedback in stages
15:25:32 see:
15:25:46 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtml2
15:26:12 In stages makes it easier to digest, that's for sure
15:26:56 Ok--I'll send you something for the next call.
15:27:12 I also want to look at a couple of the groups that are putting out primers
15:27:25 I have those in my motes somewhere from the conference.
15:27:33 notes...
15:28:40 Sure.
15:28:54 Take a look at XForms for HTML Authors too
15:29:02 (which is a primer for XForms)
15:29:23 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2003/xforms-for-html-authors.html
15:30:24 ok--thanks. That should keep me busy for a while
15:30:34 have a nice afternoon
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