IRC log of ua on 2007-09-06
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:26:21 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #ua
- 16:26:21 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-ua-irc
- 16:26:34 [AllanJ]
- rrsagent, set logs public
- 16:26:49 [AllanJ]
- zakim, this will be wai_u
- 16:26:49 [Zakim]
- ok, AllanJ; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 34 minutes
- 16:44:07 [JR]
- JR has joined #ua
- 16:48:10 [JR]
- Zakim, this will be UAWG
- 16:48:10 [Zakim]
- ok, JR; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
- 16:48:18 [JR]
- Meeting: WAI UA
- 16:48:38 [JR]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0079.html
- 16:48:46 [JR]
- Scribe: JR
- 16:48:55 [JR]
- Chair: Jim Allan
- 16:49:07 [JR]
- Regrets: Peter Parente, Kelly Ford
- 16:58:15 [Zakim]
- WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
- 16:58:22 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 16:58:31 [JR]
- zakim, ??P10 is really JR
- 16:58:31 [Zakim]
- +JR; got it
- 16:59:06 [JR]
- zakim, who is making noise?
- 16:59:17 [Zakim]
- JR, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
- 16:59:35 [Zakim]
- +JimA
- 16:59:38 [Zakim]
- -JR
- 16:59:39 [Zakim]
- +JR
- 17:00:51 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 17:01:15 [cklaws]
- cklaws has joined #ua
- 17:01:51 [AllanJ]
- zakim, [IBM] is really cklaws
- 17:01:51 [Zakim]
- +cklaws; got it
- 17:08:59 [JR]
- Topic: 1. review action items
- 17:09:10 [JR]
- Topic: JR to Write something up regarding other potential system
- 17:09:10 [JR]
- services impacting display/control
- 17:11:39 [AllanJ]
- JR: provide access to hidden or system settings
- 17:12:02 [AllanJ]
- CL: display properties are even more hidden in new OS
- 17:12:03 [JR]
- JR: Intended to mean ability to bring up OS's preferences
- 17:12:15 [JR]
- JR: since sometimes hidden
- 17:12:26 [JR]
- CL: Even more hidden in XP
- 17:12:40 [JR]
- JA: I was focussed on the UA display
- 17:17:57 [JR]
- All: Some debate about where tooltips come from...system vs. UA specific vs content
- 17:18:18 [JR]
- CL: Content tooltips controlled by CSS
- 17:18:58 [JR]
- JR: Author-controlled tooltips
- 17:19:14 [JR]
- JA: User doesn't contol alt tooltips
- 17:19:54 [AllanJ]
- JR: author controlled tool tips, like ajax or css tooltips using span
- 17:20:27 [AllanJ]
- ...also UI tool tips for @alt and @title, and chrome
- 17:20:36 [JR]
- CL: So user agent tooltips + UI/Chrome tooltips need to respect OS conventions
- 17:22:20 [AllanJ]
- JR: mouse over an image, the UA chooses to use the tooltip widget from the OS, or...
- 17:22:52 [JR]
- JR: So we're saying keep the respect the OS tooltip conventions
- 17:23:34 [JR]
- CL: In general if something is controlled by system, we want UA's to repect that
- 17:24:09 [JR]
- JA: So should UA be providing some way to change tooltips
- 17:24:19 [JR]
- JA: But kind of hate singling out tooltips
- 17:24:43 [JR]
- JA: Maybe instructions should be provided
- 17:26:13 [JR]
- JR: Gives save dialog example
- 17:26:50 [JR]
- JA: So maybe will abandon Tooltip crusade...all User Agent tooltips including chrome should inherit from OS
- 17:27:19 [JR]
- JA: And user-defined (AJAX) tooltips should be rendered as per user settings
- 17:28:50 [JR]
- CL, JR: Clarify that rendered tooltips follow browser's rendering settings e.g. zoom
- 17:30:24 [JR]
- CL: Will ask BG about whether AJAX knows the OS settings for chrome tooltips
- 17:31:38 [AllanJ]
- AllanJ has joined #ua
- 17:32:24 [JR]
- JR: Since the point of AJAX is author-customization they may not want to follow system settings - maybe matching the web page's scheme
- 17:32:42 [JR]
- CL: I know they do respect something to do with high contrast
- 17:33:38 [JR]
- JA: Imagine AJAX tooltip with an image in it...and it has an alt...and then a mouseover calls a system tooltip
- 17:34:59 [JR]
- JA: So we've decided to leave tooltips alone
- 17:35:18 [JR]
- JA: Standard tooltips are already covered.
- 17:35:32 [JR]
- JA: And so are author-defined
- 17:37:33 [JR]
- CL: JR's stuff maybe not a requirement but it could be an advisory technique.
- 17:37:57 [JR]
- Action JR: Rewrite OS settings as an advisory techniques
- 17:38:53 [JR]
- JA: One or two places in IE....that bring up system things
- 17:39:30 [JR]
- JA: Or maybe mistaken
- 17:39:47 [JR]
- JA: Oh...Internet Options in the OS control panel
- 17:40:14 [JR]
- JA: In Connections...
- 17:40:29 [JR]
- JA: Setup "Internet Connection"
- 17:40:43 [JR]
- CL: Yeah but was thinking Mouse cursors etc.
- 17:41:47 [JR]
- JA: Horse beaten.
- 17:42:13 [JR]
- Topic: 2. Review Guideline 1 suggestions
- 17:46:56 [JR]
- Action: JR, JA: Figure out how to store technique suggestions
- 17:47:48 [JR]
- JA: 1.1 looked ok
- 17:48:51 [JR]
- JA: 1.1 covers tooltip by keyboard?
- 17:50:48 [JR]
- All: Yes
- 17:51:15 [JR]
- CL: OK but in some cases...
- 17:51:40 [JR]
- CL: Without caret browsing can't get to images anyway
- 17:52:47 [JR]
- CL: Caret browsing doesn't have multiple selection
- 17:53:49 [JR]
- JA: Selection, copy, paste also covered
- 17:55:33 [JR]
- JR: In word: select something, hold ctrl key and select new stuff
- 17:56:49 [JR]
- JA: Let's stop for today
- 17:57:02 [Zakim]
- -cklaws
- 17:57:04 [Zakim]
- -JimA
- 17:57:09 [JR]
- Next meeting Sept 13
- 17:57:19 [Zakim]
- -JR
- 17:57:20 [Zakim]
- WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
- 17:57:21 [Zakim]
- Attendees were JR, JimA, cklaws
- 17:57:31 [JR]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 17:57:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-ua-minutes.html JR
- 17:57:37 [JR]
- RRSAgent, set logs public
- 17:57:42 [JR]
- Zakim, bye
- 17:57:42 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #ua
- 17:57:48 [JR]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 17:57:48 [RRSAgent]
- I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-ua-actions.rdf :
- 17:57:48 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: JR to Rewrite OS settings as an advisory techniques [1]
- 17:57:48 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-ua-irc#T17-37-57
- 17:57:48 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: JR, JA: Figure out how to store technique suggestions [2]
- 17:57:48 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-ua-irc#T17-46-56