IRC log of ua on 2007-09-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:26:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:26:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-ua-irc
16:26:34 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
16:26:49 [AllanJ]
zakim, this will be wai_u
16:26:49 [Zakim]
ok, AllanJ; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 34 minutes
16:44:07 [JR]
JR has joined #ua
16:48:10 [JR]
Zakim, this will be UAWG
16:48:10 [Zakim]
ok, JR; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
16:48:18 [JR]
Meeting: WAI UA
16:48:38 [JR]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0079.html
16:48:46 [JR]
Scribe: JR
16:48:55 [JR]
Chair: Jim Allan
16:49:07 [JR]
Regrets: Peter Parente, Kelly Ford
16:58:15 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:58:22 [Zakim]
+??P10
16:58:31 [JR]
zakim, ??P10 is really JR
16:58:31 [Zakim]
+JR; got it
16:59:06 [JR]
zakim, who is making noise?
16:59:17 [Zakim]
JR, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
16:59:35 [Zakim]
+JimA
16:59:38 [Zakim]
-JR
16:59:39 [Zakim]
+JR
17:00:51 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
17:01:15 [cklaws]
cklaws has joined #ua
17:01:51 [AllanJ]
zakim, [IBM] is really cklaws
17:01:51 [Zakim]
+cklaws; got it
17:08:59 [JR]
Topic: 1. review action items
17:09:10 [JR]
Topic: JR to Write something up regarding other potential system
17:09:10 [JR]
services impacting display/control
17:11:39 [AllanJ]
JR: provide access to hidden or system settings
17:12:02 [AllanJ]
CL: display properties are even more hidden in new OS
17:12:03 [JR]
JR: Intended to mean ability to bring up OS's preferences
17:12:15 [JR]
JR: since sometimes hidden
17:12:26 [JR]
CL: Even more hidden in XP
17:12:40 [JR]
JA: I was focussed on the UA display
17:17:57 [JR]
All: Some debate about where tooltips come from...system vs. UA specific vs content
17:18:18 [JR]
CL: Content tooltips controlled by CSS
17:18:58 [JR]
JR: Author-controlled tooltips
17:19:14 [JR]
JA: User doesn't contol alt tooltips
17:19:54 [AllanJ]
JR: author controlled tool tips, like ajax or css tooltips using span
17:20:27 [AllanJ]
...also UI tool tips for @alt and @title, and chrome
17:20:36 [JR]
CL: So user agent tooltips + UI/Chrome tooltips need to respect OS conventions
17:22:20 [AllanJ]
JR: mouse over an image, the UA chooses to use the tooltip widget from the OS, or...
17:22:52 [JR]
JR: So we're saying keep the respect the OS tooltip conventions
17:23:34 [JR]
CL: In general if something is controlled by system, we want UA's to repect that
17:24:09 [JR]
JA: So should UA be providing some way to change tooltips
17:24:19 [JR]
JA: But kind of hate singling out tooltips
17:24:43 [JR]
JA: Maybe instructions should be provided
17:26:13 [JR]
JR: Gives save dialog example
17:26:50 [JR]
JA: So maybe will abandon Tooltip crusade...all User Agent tooltips including chrome should inherit from OS
17:27:19 [JR]
JA: And user-defined (AJAX) tooltips should be rendered as per user settings
17:28:50 [JR]
CL, JR: Clarify that rendered tooltips follow browser's rendering settings e.g. zoom
17:30:24 [JR]
CL: Will ask BG about whether AJAX knows the OS settings for chrome tooltips
17:31:38 [AllanJ]
AllanJ has joined #ua
17:32:24 [JR]
JR: Since the point of AJAX is author-customization they may not want to follow system settings - maybe matching the web page's scheme
17:32:42 [JR]
CL: I know they do respect something to do with high contrast
17:33:38 [JR]
JA: Imagine AJAX tooltip with an image in it...and it has an alt...and then a mouseover calls a system tooltip
17:34:59 [JR]
JA: So we've decided to leave tooltips alone
17:35:18 [JR]
JA: Standard tooltips are already covered.
17:35:32 [JR]
JA: And so are author-defined
17:37:33 [JR]
CL: JR's stuff maybe not a requirement but it could be an advisory technique.
17:37:57 [JR]
Action JR: Rewrite OS settings as an advisory techniques
17:38:53 [JR]
JA: One or two places in IE....that bring up system things
17:39:30 [JR]
JA: Or maybe mistaken
17:39:47 [JR]
JA: Oh...Internet Options in the OS control panel
17:40:14 [JR]
JA: In Connections...
17:40:29 [JR]
JA: Setup "Internet Connection"
17:40:43 [JR]
CL: Yeah but was thinking Mouse cursors etc.
17:41:47 [JR]
JA: Horse beaten.
17:42:13 [JR]
Topic: 2. Review Guideline 1 suggestions
17:46:56 [JR]
Action: JR, JA: Figure out how to store technique suggestions
17:47:48 [JR]
JA: 1.1 looked ok
17:48:51 [JR]
JA: 1.1 covers tooltip by keyboard?
17:50:48 [JR]
All: Yes
17:51:15 [JR]
CL: OK but in some cases...
17:51:40 [JR]
CL: Without caret browsing can't get to images anyway
17:52:47 [JR]
CL: Caret browsing doesn't have multiple selection
17:53:49 [JR]
JA: Selection, copy, paste also covered
17:55:33 [JR]
JR: In word: select something, hold ctrl key and select new stuff
17:56:49 [JR]
JA: Let's stop for today
17:57:02 [Zakim]
-cklaws
17:57:04 [Zakim]
-JimA
17:57:09 [JR]
Next meeting Sept 13
17:57:19 [Zakim]
-JR
17:57:20 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
17:57:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were JR, JimA, cklaws
17:57:31 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
17:57:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-ua-minutes.html JR
17:57:37 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs public
17:57:42 [JR]
Zakim, bye
17:57:42 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
17:57:48 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
17:57:48 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-ua-actions.rdf :
17:57:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Rewrite OS settings as an advisory techniques [1]
17:57:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-ua-irc#T17-37-57
17:57:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR, JA: Figure out how to store technique suggestions [2]
17:57:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-ua-irc#T17-46-56