13:54:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
13:54:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/29-forms-irc
13:55:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
13:57:31 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
13:57:44 <Steven> Meeting: Forms WG Weekly Teleconference
13:58:21 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Aug/0082
13:58:28 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Aug/0082
14:01:45 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #forms
14:53:07 <MarkS> MarkS has joined #forms
14:54:57 <jturner> jturner has joined #forms
14:56:08 <wellsk> wellsk has joined #forms
14:58:20 <wellsk> zakim, who is here?
14:58:22 <Zakim> sorry, wellsk, I don't know what conference this is
14:58:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see wellsk, jturner, MarkS, markbirbeck, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot-ng
14:58:38 <Steven> zakim, this will  be forms
14:58:39 <Zakim> ok, Steven, I see HTML_Forms()11:00AM already started
14:58:44 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
14:58:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see wellsk
14:58:45 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
14:58:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
14:58:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see wellsk, jturner, MarkS, markbirbeck, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot-ng
15:00:55 <Zakim> +??P5
15:01:11 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:01:11 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:01:13 <Zakim> +Steven
15:01:15 <Nick> Nick has joined #Forms
15:01:24 <Nick> zakim, code?
15:01:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Nick
15:01:25 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
15:01:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see wellsk, ??P5, Steven
15:01:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see Nick, wellsk, jturner, MarkS, markbirbeck, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot-ng
15:01:39 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:01:44 <lars> lars has joined #forms
15:01:48 <Steven> zakim, ??p5 is MarkS
15:01:48 <Zakim> +MarkS; got it
15:02:15 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:02:24 <Nick> zakim, mute me
15:02:24 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:02:30 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?
15:02:44 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 5 (5%)
15:02:56 <MarkS> I thought it was tap dancing
15:03:03 <Steven> zakim, mute wellsk briefly
15:03:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mute wellsk briefly', Steven
15:03:24 <klotz> klotz has joined #forms
15:03:31 <wellsk> sorry
15:03:34 <Steven> :-)
15:03:55 <Charlie> Charlie has joined #forms
15:04:01 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:04:07 <Zakim> +??P10
15:04:15 <Charlie> zakim, who is here?
15:04:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see wellsk, MarkS, Steven, [IBM], Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), ??P10
15:04:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see ebruchez, Charlie, klotz, lars, Nick, wellsk, jturner, MarkS, markbirbeck, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot-ng
15:04:21 <Charlie> zakim, [IBM] is Charlie
15:04:21 <Zakim> +Charlie; got it
15:04:24 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?
15:04:24 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
15:04:29 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
15:04:45 <Zakim> +??P28
15:04:49 <Zakim> + +9308322aaaa
15:05:02 <ebruchez> zakim, ??P28 is ebruchez
15:05:05 <jturner> zakim, aaaa is me
15:05:05 <Zakim> +ebruchez; got it
15:05:06 <Zakim> +jturner; got it
15:05:51 <Steven> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:05:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see wellsk, MarkS, Steven, Charlie, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), markbirbeck, Leigh_Klotz, ebruchez, jturner
15:06:02 <jturner> zakim, mute me
15:06:12 <Zakim> jturner should now be muted
15:06:21 <_lars> _lars has joined #forms
15:08:34 <_lars> hm, zakim isn't working very well for me today... I'll try another number
15:08:41 <_lars> zakim, code?
15:08:41 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), _lars
15:09:42 <Charlie> * yes, could i suggest one based on the IBM approved list?
15:09:49 <Charlie> * i can send email in a bit
15:11:45 <Nick> zakim, mute me
15:11:45 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:12:21 <Zakim> +??P3
15:12:33 <_lars> zakim, lars is ??P3
15:12:33 <Zakim> sorry, _lars, I do not recognize a party named 'lars'
15:12:37 <_lars> zakim, _lars is ??P3
15:12:37 <Zakim> sorry, _lars, I do not recognize a party named '_lars'
15:12:48 <_lars> zakim, ??P3 is _lars
15:12:48 <Zakim> +_lars; got it
15:13:01 <_lars> zakim, mute me please
15:13:01 <Zakim> _lars should now be muted
15:13:51 <Blake> Blake has joined #forms
15:13:55 <Nick> don't know if it related but david posted some remarks to the test suite
15:14:10 <Nick> (on www-forms)
15:14:41 <Zakim> + +1.541.754.aabb
15:14:59 <Steven> zakim, aabb is Blake
15:14:59 <Zakim> +Blake; got it
15:15:57 <wellsk> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Test/XForms1.0/Edition3/front_html/XF103edTestSuite.html
15:17:43 <Steven> http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/XPath?id=12;user=guest;statetype=1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1
15:20:51 <Nick> no time
15:21:23 <Nick> a date not without time
15:21:29 <Nick> 2002-09-24+06:00
15:21:36 <Nick> I think ;)
15:21:54 <Nick> so a date with time zone
15:22:07 <Nick> now: data + time + time zone
15:22:33 <Nick> ack me
15:24:10 <MarkS> I'll ask David
15:25:01 <Nick> there is an example for local-time
15:25:29 <Steven> http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/MIPs?id=102;user=guest;statetype=1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1
15:25:52 <Nick> zakim, mute me
15:25:52 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:27:26 <markbirbeck> on the previous discussion...surely now() *doesn't* return the 'local time', since it is first normalised to UTC. So if it's 1pm in somewhere that is 8 hours behind London, won't now() give 21:00?
15:29:13 <Nick> I think it should be in the default stylesheet we talked about
15:29:33 <Nick> don't know in which state the default css is?
15:30:13 <Nick> ack me
15:31:21 <Nick> zakim, mute me
15:31:21 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:32:44 <Nick> ack me
15:35:48 <Nick> zakim, mute me
15:35:48 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:38:20 <Nick> it does have an effect
15:38:36 <Nick> I think you want to style invalid values
15:38:55 <Nick> just like you want to style required by default
15:39:47 <Nick> ack me
15:51:26 <Nick> zakim, mute me
15:51:26 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:51:37 <Steven> http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/Events?id=29;user=guest;statetype=1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1
15:52:00 <Nick> ack me
15:52:27 <klotz> is this the resolution: required and invalid fields should be presented specially, and form authors should have control over presentation and processors may vary the presentation style and time and processors should use CSS if it is available. 
15:52:52 <Steven> looks good
15:54:11 <Nick> ack me
15:54:42 <Nick> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xforms11-20070222/#rpm-init
15:54:49 <Nick> Perform the behaviors of  xforms-rebuild, xforms-recalculate, and xforms-revalidate in sequence  on  this model element  without dispatching events to invoke the behaviors. 
15:55:27 <Nick> The notification event markings for these operations are discarded, and the  xforms-refresh  behavior  is not performed since the user interface has not yet been initialized.
15:57:19 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
15:57:36 <klotz> phone died
15:57:56 <Steven> darn
15:58:52 <Steven> Mark: I agree that it is odd that the CSS treatment and the event treatment happen differently
15:59:07 <Steven> ... it used to be different to this
15:59:18 <klotz> it wont letme join
15:59:18 <Steven> Erik: We optimise this case
15:59:42 <Steven> ... but if you have 400 controls, there will be quite a lot of events
16:00:11 <Steven> Mark: We want to do save and resume, and so we need the initialization events
16:00:39 <Steven> ... so I agree strongly with you , and we should reinstate this (I hadn't realised it was gone)
16:01:00 <Steven> Nick: I think it was an erratum on 1.0
16:01:10 <klotz> i have posted a use case for xforms-value-changed on instance replace, to handle "errors" dpeending on the returned instance.
16:01:10 <Steven> Mark: I think it is a side-effect of the change to refresh
16:01:54 <Charlie> MIP events but not value-changed, yes
16:02:23 <Steven> Mark: We can't resolve this now. Need John to tell us whether it was changed by mistake
16:02:36 <Steven> ... let's put this off to the FtF
16:02:45 <jturner> bye
16:02:45 <Zakim> -wellsk
16:02:46 <_lars> bye
16:02:46 <Zakim> -ebruchez
16:02:47 <Zakim> -Steven
16:02:48 <Blake> Blake has left #forms
16:02:48 <Steven> Steven: So resolved
16:02:48 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
16:02:49 <Nick> bye
16:02:50 <Zakim> -Blake
16:02:52 <Zakim> -MarkS
16:02:55 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:02:56 <wellsk> wellsk has left #forms
16:02:57 <Zakim> -Charlie
16:02:59 <Zakim> -jturner
16:03:03 <Zakim> -_lars
16:03:05 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()11:00AM has ended
16:03:07 <Zakim> Attendees were wellsk, Steven, MarkS, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Charlie, markbirbeck, Leigh_Klotz, +9308322aaaa, ebruchez, jturner, _lars, +1.541.754.aabb, Blake
16:03:10 <MarkS> MarkS has left #forms
16:03:13 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/29-forms-minutes.html Steven
16:03:31 <Steven> Leigh, I hope you can use my notes to finish off the minutes
16:03:57 <klotz> already done thank you.  phone battery fell out adn wehn i put it abck in zakim said no
16:04:06 <Steven> :-S
16:04:24 <Nick> leigh?
16:04:29 <klotz> yes Nick
16:04:41 <Nick> can you add this to the minutes http://www.w3.org/2006/03/REC-xforms-20060314-errata.html#E29a
16:04:50 <klotz> where?
16:04:51 <Nick> 29.1 Amend Default Processing of xforms-model-constr
16:05:06 <klotz> in the last issue?
16:05:12 <Nick> it is the erate that removed the sending of the events on construction
16:05:16 <klotz> ok
16:05:17 <Nick> yes
16:05:50 <Nick> I'll send an e-mail to the mailing list also, but when we read the minutes again it is handy that's there
16:21:11 <Nick> Nick has joined #Forms
17:56:35 <Zakim> Zakim has left #forms