IRC log of forms on 2007-08-29
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:54:58 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #forms
- 13:54:58 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/29-forms-irc
- 13:55:06 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #forms
- 13:57:31 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 13:57:44 [Steven]
- Meeting: Forms WG Weekly Teleconference
- 13:58:21 [Steven]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Aug/0082
- 13:58:28 [Steven]
- Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Aug/0082
- 14:01:45 [markbirbeck]
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- 14:53:07 [MarkS]
- MarkS has joined #forms
- 14:54:57 [jturner]
- jturner has joined #forms
- 14:56:08 [wellsk]
- wellsk has joined #forms
- 14:58:20 [wellsk]
- zakim, who is here?
- 14:58:22 [Zakim]
- sorry, wellsk, I don't know what conference this is
- 14:58:25 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see wellsk, jturner, MarkS, markbirbeck, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot-ng
- 14:58:38 [Steven]
- zakim, this will be forms
- 14:58:39 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven, I see HTML_Forms()11:00AM already started
- 14:58:44 [Steven]
- zakim, who is here?
- 14:58:45 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see wellsk
- 14:58:45 [markbirbeck]
- zakim, code?
- 14:58:49 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
- 14:58:53 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see wellsk, jturner, MarkS, markbirbeck, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot-ng
- 15:00:55 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 15:01:11 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 15:01:11 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 15:01:13 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 15:01:15 [Nick]
- Nick has joined #Forms
- 15:01:24 [Nick]
- zakim, code?
- 15:01:24 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Nick
- 15:01:25 [Steven]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:01:26 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see wellsk, ??P5, Steven
- 15:01:27 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Nick, wellsk, jturner, MarkS, markbirbeck, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot-ng
- 15:01:39 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 15:01:44 [lars]
- lars has joined #forms
- 15:01:48 [Steven]
- zakim, ??p5 is MarkS
- 15:01:48 [Zakim]
- +MarkS; got it
- 15:02:15 [Zakim]
- +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
- 15:02:24 [Nick]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:02:24 [Zakim]
- Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
- 15:02:30 [Steven]
- zakim, who is noisy?
- 15:02:44 [Zakim]
- Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 5 (5%)
- 15:02:56 [MarkS]
- I thought it was tap dancing
- 15:03:03 [Steven]
- zakim, mute wellsk briefly
- 15:03:04 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'mute wellsk briefly', Steven
- 15:03:24 [klotz]
- klotz has joined #forms
- 15:03:31 [wellsk]
- sorry
- 15:03:34 [Steven]
- :-)
- 15:03:55 [Charlie]
- Charlie has joined #forms
- 15:04:01 [ebruchez]
- ebruchez has joined #forms
- 15:04:07 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 15:04:15 [Charlie]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:04:15 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see wellsk, MarkS, Steven, [IBM], Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), ??P10
- 15:04:17 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see ebruchez, Charlie, klotz, lars, Nick, wellsk, jturner, MarkS, markbirbeck, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot-ng
- 15:04:21 [Charlie]
- zakim, [IBM] is Charlie
- 15:04:21 [Zakim]
- +Charlie; got it
- 15:04:24 [markbirbeck]
- zakim, i am ?
- 15:04:24 [Zakim]
- +markbirbeck; got it
- 15:04:29 [Zakim]
- +Leigh_Klotz
- 15:04:45 [Zakim]
- +??P28
- 15:04:49 [Zakim]
- + +9308322aaaa
- 15:05:02 [ebruchez]
- zakim, ??P28 is ebruchez
- 15:05:05 [jturner]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 15:05:05 [Zakim]
- +ebruchez; got it
- 15:05:06 [Zakim]
- +jturner; got it
- 15:05:51 [Steven]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:05:51 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see wellsk, MarkS, Steven, Charlie, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), markbirbeck, Leigh_Klotz, ebruchez, jturner
- 15:06:02 [jturner]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:06:12 [Zakim]
- jturner should now be muted
- 15:06:21 [_lars]
- _lars has joined #forms
- 15:08:34 [_lars]
- hm, zakim isn't working very well for me today... I'll try another number
- 15:08:41 [_lars]
- zakim, code?
- 15:08:41 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), _lars
- 15:09:42 [Charlie]
- * yes, could i suggest one based on the IBM approved list?
- 15:09:49 [Charlie]
- * i can send email in a bit
- 15:10:35 [Nick]
- ack me
- 15:11:45 [Nick]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:11:45 [Zakim]
- Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
- 15:12:21 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 15:12:33 [_lars]
- zakim, lars is ??P3
- 15:12:33 [Zakim]
- sorry, _lars, I do not recognize a party named 'lars'
- 15:12:37 [_lars]
- zakim, _lars is ??P3
- 15:12:37 [Zakim]
- sorry, _lars, I do not recognize a party named '_lars'
- 15:12:48 [_lars]
- zakim, ??P3 is _lars
- 15:12:48 [Zakim]
- +_lars; got it
- 15:13:01 [_lars]
- zakim, mute me please
- 15:13:01 [Zakim]
- _lars should now be muted
- 15:13:51 [Blake]
- Blake has joined #forms
- 15:13:55 [Nick]
- don't know if it related but david posted some remarks to the test suite
- 15:14:10 [Nick]
- (on www-forms)
- 15:14:41 [Zakim]
- + +1.541.754.aabb
- 15:14:59 [Steven]
- zakim, aabb is Blake
- 15:14:59 [Zakim]
- +Blake; got it
- 15:15:57 [wellsk]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Test/XForms1.0/Edition3/front_html/XF103edTestSuite.html
- 15:17:43 [Steven]
- http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/XPath?id=12;user=guest;statetype=1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1
- 15:20:51 [Nick]
- no time
- 15:21:23 [Nick]
- a date not without time
- 15:21:29 [Nick]
- 2002-09-24+06:00
- 15:21:36 [Nick]
- I think ;)
- 15:21:54 [Nick]
- so a date with time zone
- 15:22:07 [Nick]
- now: data + time + time zone
- 15:22:33 [Nick]
- ack me
- 15:24:10 [MarkS]
- I'll ask David
- 15:25:01 [Nick]
- there is an example for local-time
- 15:25:29 [Steven]
- http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/MIPs?id=102;user=guest;statetype=1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1
- 15:25:52 [Nick]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:25:52 [Zakim]
- Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
- 15:27:26 [markbirbeck]
- on the previous discussion...surely now() *doesn't* return the 'local time', since it is first normalised to UTC. So if it's 1pm in somewhere that is 8 hours behind London, won't now() give 21:00?
- 15:29:13 [Nick]
- I think it should be in the default stylesheet we talked about
- 15:29:33 [Nick]
- don't know in which state the default css is?
- 15:30:13 [Nick]
- ack me
- 15:31:21 [Nick]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:31:21 [Zakim]
- Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
- 15:32:44 [Nick]
- ack me
- 15:35:48 [Nick]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:35:48 [Zakim]
- Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
- 15:38:20 [Nick]
- it does have an effect
- 15:38:36 [Nick]
- I think you want to style invalid values
- 15:38:55 [Nick]
- just like you want to style required by default
- 15:39:47 [Nick]
- ack me
- 15:51:26 [Nick]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:51:26 [Zakim]
- Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
- 15:51:37 [Steven]
- http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xforms-issues/Events?id=29;user=guest;statetype=1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1
- 15:52:00 [Nick]
- ack me
- 15:52:27 [klotz]
- is this the resolution: required and invalid fields should be presented specially, and form authors should have control over presentation and processors may vary the presentation style and time and processors should use CSS if it is available.
- 15:52:52 [Steven]
- looks good
- 15:54:11 [Nick]
- ack me
- 15:54:42 [Nick]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xforms11-20070222/#rpm-init
- 15:54:49 [Nick]
- Perform the behaviors of xforms-rebuild, xforms-recalculate, and xforms-revalidate in sequence on this model element without dispatching events to invoke the behaviors.
- 15:55:27 [Nick]
- The notification event markings for these operations are discarded, and the xforms-refresh behavior is not performed since the user interface has not yet been initialized.
- 15:57:19 [Zakim]
- -Leigh_Klotz
- 15:57:36 [klotz]
- phone died
- 15:57:56 [Steven]
- darn
- 15:58:52 [Steven]
- Mark: I agree that it is odd that the CSS treatment and the event treatment happen differently
- 15:59:07 [Steven]
- ... it used to be different to this
- 15:59:18 [klotz]
- it wont letme join
- 15:59:18 [Steven]
- Erik: We optimise this case
- 15:59:42 [Steven]
- ... but if you have 400 controls, there will be quite a lot of events
- 16:00:11 [Steven]
- Mark: We want to do save and resume, and so we need the initialization events
- 16:00:39 [Steven]
- ... so I agree strongly with you , and we should reinstate this (I hadn't realised it was gone)
- 16:01:00 [Steven]
- Nick: I think it was an erratum on 1.0
- 16:01:10 [klotz]
- i have posted a use case for xforms-value-changed on instance replace, to handle "errors" dpeending on the returned instance.
- 16:01:10 [Steven]
- Mark: I think it is a side-effect of the change to refresh
- 16:01:54 [Charlie]
- MIP events but not value-changed, yes
- 16:02:23 [Steven]
- Mark: We can't resolve this now. Need John to tell us whether it was changed by mistake
- 16:02:36 [Steven]
- ... let's put this off to the FtF
- 16:02:45 [jturner]
- bye
- 16:02:45 [Zakim]
- -wellsk
- 16:02:46 [_lars]
- bye
- 16:02:46 [Zakim]
- -ebruchez
- 16:02:47 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 16:02:48 [Blake]
- Blake has left #forms
- 16:02:48 [Steven]
- Steven: So resolved
- 16:02:48 [Zakim]
- -markbirbeck
- 16:02:49 [Nick]
- bye
- 16:02:50 [Zakim]
- -Blake
- 16:02:52 [Zakim]
- -MarkS
- 16:02:55 [Zakim]
- -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
- 16:02:56 [wellsk]
- wellsk has left #forms
- 16:02:57 [Zakim]
- -Charlie
- 16:02:59 [Zakim]
- -jturner
- 16:03:03 [Zakim]
- -_lars
- 16:03:05 [Zakim]
- HTML_Forms()11:00AM has ended
- 16:03:07 [Zakim]
- Attendees were wellsk, Steven, MarkS, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Charlie, markbirbeck, Leigh_Klotz, +9308322aaaa, ebruchez, jturner, _lars, +1.541.754.aabb, Blake
- 16:03:10 [MarkS]
- MarkS has left #forms
- 16:03:13 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:03:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/29-forms-minutes.html Steven
- 16:03:31 [Steven]
- Leigh, I hope you can use my notes to finish off the minutes
- 16:03:57 [klotz]
- already done thank you. phone battery fell out adn wehn i put it abck in zakim said no
- 16:04:06 [Steven]
- :-S
- 16:04:24 [Nick]
- leigh?
- 16:04:29 [klotz]
- yes Nick
- 16:04:41 [Nick]
- can you add this to the minutes http://www.w3.org/2006/03/REC-xforms-20060314-errata.html#E29a
- 16:04:50 [klotz]
- where?
- 16:04:51 [Nick]
- 29.1 Amend Default Processing of xforms-model-constr
- 16:05:06 [klotz]
- in the last issue?
- 16:05:12 [Nick]
- it is the erate that removed the sending of the events on construction
- 16:05:16 [klotz]
- ok
- 16:05:17 [Nick]
- yes
- 16:05:50 [Nick]
- I'll send an e-mail to the mailing list also, but when we read the minutes again it is handy that's there
- 16:21:11 [Nick]
- Nick has joined #Forms
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- Zakim has left #forms