IRC log of ua on 2007-08-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:47:49 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:47:49 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-ua-irc
16:48:04 [AllanJ]
zakim, this will be wai-u
16:48:04 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, AllanJ
16:48:25 [AllanJ]
zakim, this will be wai_u
16:48:25 [Zakim]
ok, AllanJ; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
16:48:42 [AllanJ]
Title: UAWG teleconference
16:49:00 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
16:49:18 [AllanJ]
Chair: Jim Allan
16:50:22 [AllanJ]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0068.html
16:50:55 [AllanJ]
scribe: JR
16:54:25 [JR]
JR has joined #ua
16:54:57 [JR]
scribe: JR
16:57:19 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:57:26 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
16:59:33 [Zakim]
+??P1
17:00:57 [AllanJ]
zakim, ??P1 is really JR
17:00:57 [Zakim]
+JR; got it
17:05:51 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
17:06:20 [cklaws]
cklaws has joined #ua
17:06:51 [JR]
zakim, [IBM] or really cklaws
17:06:51 [Zakim]
I don't understand '[IBM] or really cklaws', JR
17:06:59 [JR]
zakim, [IBM] is really cklaws
17:06:59 [Zakim]
+cklaws; got it
17:08:19 [JR]
Topic: 2. definition of 'chrome'
17:08:26 [JR]
JA: IBM has a defn?
17:08:36 [JR]
CL: Not an official one
17:09:03 [JR]
Topic: UAAG2 feature wishlist
17:09:24 [JR]
JA: So far the WCAG wishlist for UA's is already covered.
17:09:32 [JR]
http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=User_Agent_Push
17:09:55 [JR]
CL: In developing HPR we came up with a list of features for Mozilla
17:11:00 [JR]
JA: There's also a list of things on a blog...
17:11:04 [cklaws]
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24413
17:13:32 [JR]
JA: Tried to get acount on user agent "push" wiki site
17:13:42 [JR]
JA: Wondering about process
17:14:03 [JR]
JA: Should we get on the list or just wait till WCAG filters things to us
17:15:29 [JR]
JA: There's also an old doc "Until user agents do this"...but lots are outdated...like putting placeholder text in form fields
17:15:46 [JR]
JA: Still might be another source of wishlist items
17:17:28 [JR]
CL: The bugzilla bug in link includes a number of sub-bugs that detail required behaviour
17:18:22 [JR]
CL: HPR UAAG gap list was things missing in HPR, not things missing in UAAG
17:19:05 [JR]
JA: Mainstream developers love some of the AT features such as list of links
17:19:18 [JR]
CL: Right, same with Where am I that HPR has
17:21:54 [JR]
CL: I read WCAG Push as being a list of things that are in UAAG1 but still are lacking support in browsers
17:22:35 [JR]
CL: Their example "navigate by section" is unclear since there are many meanings to "section".
17:23:03 [Zakim]
+Gregory_Rosmaita
17:23:10 [AllanJ]
Web Standards Current browsers and the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 http://www.webstandards.org/learn/articles/current-browsers-uaag10/
17:24:23 [AllanJ]
comments about article: http://www.webstandards.org/2007/05/20/current-browsers-and-the-user-agent-accessibility-guidelines-10/
17:25:16 [JR]
GR: Joins and gives some info on alt/longdesc page + asks some advice on ways of making longdesc cognitive disability side-by-side use case more clear
17:26:14 [JR]
GR: Two important things to say...
17:26:38 [JR]
GR: Asked by Dan C to represnt HTML group on WAI-UA and Forms group...
17:26:56 [JR]
GR: So you can forward any forms issues to me
17:27:15 [JR]
GR: Forms Group is actually a Forms "taskforce"
17:28:55 [JR]
JA: Anything more for wishlist?
17:29:02 [JR]
JA: Maybe HTML will have items?
17:30:24 [JR]
GR: will add to liasison list of things to do
17:31:06 [JR]
Topic: 1. review action items
17:31:29 [JR]
GR: Will work on "GR to Flesh out requirements of text view for 2.2" today
17:32:28 [JR]
JA: My proposal on 3.4 is to remove to exclusion on plugins
17:34:34 [AllanJ]
JR: use case, flashing content. turning off execution prevents flashing.
17:35:02 [AllanJ]
CL: but want the non-executed content replaced with alternative content
17:35:24 [JR]
GR: Alt in the fallback for rich content...
17:35:37 [JR]
GR: Also preference sniffing.
17:35:48 [AllanJ]
GR: discussion in HTML about rich fall back content, content negotiation with user preferences and available fallback content
17:36:02 [JR]
GR: Object is a catchsall.
17:36:38 [JR]
JR: So I might set my lang in the properties
17:36:39 [AllanJ]
JR: in my preferences, can set default language, then the UA sorts through content based on preferences
17:37:09 [AllanJ]
GR: UA would present a list of options of content available
17:37:25 [JR]
GR: So it would be a user agent feature to sort through conditional content
17:37:36 [JR]
GR: Author defined cascade...
17:37:56 [JR]
GR: With eye towards UA's that don't support the technology being served
17:38:22 [JR]
JA: Has been a problem for awhile...
17:39:58 [JR]
JA: A great feature would be if user was on an object and could then see what cond. content was in there
17:40:14 [JR]
JA: Of course always depends on cond. content being there
17:40:27 [JR]
JA: ANd nice if that worked without an AT
17:41:23 [JR]
JR: So back to executable checkpoint...
17:41:23 [AllanJ]
JR: expands on the toggling of executable content, more techniques and related to conditional content
17:41:48 [JR]
JR: no flashing use case is the strongest one I see
17:41:56 [AllanJ]
GR: user preference...what kind of content is preferred,
17:42:27 [JR]
GR: Object handling has to follow user prefs- I see 3 states - show all, show something specific, let me pick
17:43:08 [JR]
GR: Lots of talk lately about Object...
17:43:24 [JR]
GR: If MIME type is XYZ then load
17:43:44 [JR]
GR: Stuff needed is already in UA's but some Chrome is needed
17:44:14 [JR]
GR: ARIA live region would greatly support this.
17:44:22 [JR]
GR: ie. want captions
17:44:43 [JR]
GR: then system would convey changes in captions to AT directly
17:45:45 [JR]
JA: So...new 3.4 seems ok...but we need to tie in more with Conditional Content stuff
17:46:04 [JR]
JA: Some we can expect from DHTML: working group and ARIA best practices
17:46:24 [JR]
oops JA should be GR
17:46:49 [JR]
JA: "JA to Write proposal for controlling display of tooltips" done
17:47:16 [JR]
JA: Tooltips controlled by underlying operating system
17:47:35 [JR]
JA: Not sure we need to get involved with this
17:47:56 [JR]
JA: Maybe it's just something we put out as a checkpoint and let UA people decide how to do it
17:48:18 [JR]
JA: e.g. pull it out of system?
17:48:37 [JR]
CL: Maybe we should discuss ARIA tooltips
17:48:56 [JR]
CL: Entire forms inside tooltips
17:49:06 [JR]
GR: Prefer to call them "context menus"
17:49:17 [JR]
JA: Will style trickle down?
17:49:30 [JR]
CL: Generated using javascript
17:50:42 [JR]
CL: I know Becky et al are working to respect system settings such as high contrast..but not sure about browser settings (or even tooltip system settings)
17:52:37 [JR]
CL: ARIA adds attributes that will show up in DOM
17:53:43 [JR]
CL: Firefox on Win uses MSAA an Iaccessible2
17:53:51 [JR]
CL: On Linux is uses ATK
17:54:32 [JR]
CL: Becky says browser can't get tooltip styling?
17:56:08 [AllanJ]
will dojo menus inherit UA user settings
17:56:56 [JR]
JA: So for tooltips...
17:57:10 [JR]
CL: Asking Becky what is being respected...
17:57:29 [JR]
CL: Becky says background and foreground stylesheet colours
17:58:03 [JR]
JA: So seems like UA colours would override
17:58:11 [JR]
JA: So with tooltips...
17:58:30 [JR]
JA: Not sure my propossal is another checkpoint or where it might fit...
17:58:44 [JR]
GR: Also need to colour temporality of tooltip
17:59:18 [JR]
JR: But can't control system settings
18:00:08 [JR]
JA: Nothing in styles that can control tooltips
18:01:04 [JR]
JA: Some designers found various tricks to get around tooltips
18:01:32 [JR]
GR: Info from on-focus could just as easily go on status bar
18:01:48 [JR]
JA: We're overtime...
18:02:11 [JR]
JA: OK will write something to list for next week
18:02:12 [Zakim]
-cklaws
18:02:15 [Zakim]
-Gregory_Rosmaita
18:02:23 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
18:02:31 [Zakim]
-JR
18:02:32 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:02:33 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jim_Allan, JR, cklaws, Gregory_Rosmaita
18:02:48 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
18:02:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-ua-minutes.html JR
18:02:56 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs public
18:03:04 [JR]
Zakim, bye
18:03:04 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:03:09 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
18:03:09 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items