17:42:35 RRSAgent has joined #UA 17:42:35 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/08/31-UA-irc 17:42:46 rrsagent, set logs public 17:43:03 zakim, this will be wai_ui 17:43:03 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, jallan 17:43:19 zakim, this will be wai_u 17:43:19 ok, jallan; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 17 minutes 17:44:02 meeting: User Agent Teleconference 17:44:09 Chair: Jim Allan 17:44:30 scribe: Jan Richards 17:57:32 WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started 17:57:39 +Jim_Allan 17:58:29 parente has joined #ua 17:59:03 +[IBM] 17:59:13 JR has joined #ua 17:59:47 zakim, [IBM] is Parente 17:59:47 +Parente; got it 17:59:55 +Jan_Richards 18:00:09 slate: JR 18:00:38 scribe:JR 18:01:07 +[IBM] 18:01:25 zakim, [IBM] is cklaws 18:01:25 +cklaws; got it 18:01:25 cklaws has joined #ua 18:02:12 Topic: 6.4 Programmatic access to information about rendered content (P1) 18:03:44 +DPoehlman 18:05:03 JA: Sent this earlier: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006JulSep/0040.html 18:05:13 PP: Has some other links for Linux... 18:05:44 PP: Use AtkComponent as well as AtkText... 18:05:50 http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/atk/AtkComponent.html 18:05:53 PP: Plus there is a broken link 18:05:55 http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/atk/AtkText.html 18:06:39 CL: We don't generally do this in HPR 18:07:02 CL: Believe AT's are going directly to Windows APIs on windows not to DOM 18:07:43 JA: How is it on MacOS? 18:08:19 PP: MacOS has its own. 18:08:49 PP: Even on Linux - application uses ATK, AT's go through ATSPI(sp?) 18:09:34 PP: Usually 1 to 1 but ATSPI missing "write" calls 18:09:43 JA: WHat about AJAX? 18:10:43 CL: Think AJAX people are looking at adding location to AJAX events 18:11:16 PP: In Linux we do assume that the ATSPI will be kept up to dat by the browser. 18:11:39 PP: But for thinks like changing coordinates, not sure. 18:12:14 PP: New ATSPI will have doc events added - start loading, end loading. 18:12:29 PP: Also mentions ChildrenChange events 18:12:55 http://accessibility.freestandards.org/a11yspecs/atspi/adoc/atspi-events.html 18:14:09 PP: Javascript components have to tell browser when things change so browser can tell AT 18:14:49 CL: Someone at IBM (Gibson?) knows this stuff... 18:15:15 Action CL: Gather Gibson's presentations etc. for the group. 18:16:20 Action: fix links add refereces for Linux include previoius references to ATSPI 18:16:45 http://www-306.ibm.com/able/resources/ajaxaccessibility.html 18:17:11 This is paper Gibson wrote. 18:18:04 Gibson = Becky Gibson 18:18:53 Topic: 6.5 Programmatic operation of user agent user interface (P1) 18:19:22 JA: Has prob with def on user agent ui control... 18:19:42 JA: Def says this out of the box browser 18:20:01 JA: But may need to expand to extensions and toolbars etc. 18:20:51 CL: IE uses COM and ActiveX interfaces for plugins 18:21:34 JA: In firefox? 18:21:53 CL: Firefox supports XPcom and XUL(sp?) 18:22:49 JA: Wondering about accessibility to toolbars etc 18:23:38 JA: Are there guidelines, best practoces for these toolbars? 18:24:42 CL: Will ask Tom 18:25:01 JA: Will ask "Standards Project" about their accessibility toolbar 18:25:18 action JA: Will ask "Standards Project" about their accessibility toolbar 18:26:10 Firefo xa11y features: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Accessibility_features_of_Firefox 18:27:54 action PP: Will look around for similar API mechanisms in Linux (for plugging in toolbars, etc.). 18:30:39 CL, JR, PP: We should update the examples in Example Techniques 3. 18:32:05 CL, PP: Accessibility works best at "semantic" level - buttons etc, not a drawing level - draw rectangle etc 18:32:26 CL, PP: Use the desktop level as examples. 18:35:55 JA: Maybe add Linux to ex. tech 6? 18:36:54 CL: X windows is a weird example 18:37:09 PP: Window manager will be written to rely on X... 18:37:29 PP: Window managers are separte but at some point bundled 18:38:09 CL: In tha tCommunity peple think of Linux+Gnome or Solaris+Gnome 18:38:24 JA: Let's change X-Windows to Linux 18:38:38 in techniques 3 18:38:49 http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/727z646z.aspx 18:39:30 (Introduction to COM and ATL (goes in Refs for 6.5) 18:39:45 action: ja: added link to references for accessible Com objects 18:41:05 JA: Ex. tech. 8 gets back in to low level stuff... 18:41:29 JA: So we don't need to add Linux here 18:42:04 PP: Will ook up another ref for 8. 18:42:16 Topic: 6.6 Programmatic notification of changes (P1) 18:43:47 JR: Does first exclusion work with AJAX? 18:43:57 CL: There is the "unless" clause 18:44:11 PP: The was CSS used now...much can be done 18:44:41 CL: APIs still mapping down to the DOM 18:45:09 JR: Would this confuse a developer? 18:45:24 CL: Yeah we really mean the semantic content 18:45:49 PP: Imagine if CSS used to check/uncheck a box. 18:46:13 CL: Maybe WCAG prevents this? 18:48:42 JR: So what is 6.6 really getting at for deveopers? 18:49:58 CL: IN def for document model, CSS is required 18:51:43 JR: Does ex. tech. 1 belong here? 18:55:42 CL: Used to be common for AT's to hook display drivers...but now we want to use engineered APIs 18:57:00 CL: This way all of the samantic info comes along 18:57:24 JA: What do we need to do with 6.6? 18:58:26 CL: Did ask Rich if you can get where content changes occur as part of event notification, but answer was no. 18:58:49 cl comments related to 6.4 18:59:00 CL: So change message happens but must then walk to tree to see where, 19:01:07 jr: 6.6 says must be notified of change, but not WHERE the change occured. 19:02:06 PP: Technically if AtkComponent used could get location... 19:02:28 -DPoehlman 19:02:30 PP: eg newchild event, tells source..use source to get location 19:02:38 CL: What about text? 19:03:23 PP: In new ATSPI, there is an ObjectAttributesChange event that would be relant here 19:03:56 PP: For text...TextChangedEvents...but noit sureif any of these are fired by DHTML 19:04:59 action: ja: add reference to roadmap role/state information to references for 6.6 19:05:29 CL: ON Windows side, MSAA does not do thiz 19:06:01 JA: Next week we will review 6.6 19:06:11 -cklaws 19:06:12 -Parente 19:06:20 -Jan_Richards 19:06:21 WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended 19:06:23 Attendees were Jim_Allan, Parente, Jan_Richards, cklaws, DPoehlman 19:06:37 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:06:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/31-UA-minutes.html JR 19:06:47 RRSAgent, set logs public 19:09:32 Zakim, bye 19:09:32 Zakim has left #ua 19:09:38 RRSAgent, bye 19:09:38 I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/31-UA-actions.rdf : 19:09:38 ACTION: CL to Gather Gibson's presentations etc. for the group. [1] 19:09:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/31-UA-irc#T18-15-15 19:09:38 ACTION: fix links add refereces for Linux include previoius references to ATSPI [2] 19:09:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/31-UA-irc#T18-16-20 19:09:38 ACTION: JA to Will ask "Standards Project" about their accessibility toolbar [3] 19:09:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/31-UA-irc#T18-25-18 19:09:38 ACTION: PP to Will look around for similar API mechanisms in Linux (for plugging in toolbars, etc.). [4] 19:09:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/31-UA-irc#T18-27-54 19:09:38 ACTION: ja: added link to references for accessible Com objects [5] 19:09:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/31-UA-irc#T18-39-45 19:09:38 ACTION: ja: add reference to roadmap role/state information to references for 6.6 [6] 19:09:38 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/31-UA-irc#T19-04-59