IRC log of ua on 2006-05-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:56:15 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #ua
- 17:56:15 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-irc
- 17:58:50 [Zakim]
- WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
- 17:58:57 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 17:59:28 [Zakim]
- +Jim_Allan
- 17:59:37 [JR]
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- 18:00:00 [jallan]
- Meeting: W3C User Agent Teleconference for 11 May 2006
- 18:00:24 [Zakim]
- +Jan_Richards
- 18:01:17 [JR]
- scribe: JR
- 18:01:23 [parente]
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- 18:01:36 [JR]
- Chair: jallan
- 18:02:06 [jallan]
- +[IBM] is Peter Parente
- 18:02:16 [JR]
- zakim, agenda?
- 18:02:16 [Zakim]
- I see nothing on the agenda
- 18:02:35 [jallan]
- zakim, +[IBM] is Peter Parente
- 18:02:35 [Zakim]
- I don't understand '+[IBM] is Peter Parente', jallan
- 18:02:57 [JR]
- agenda+ ACTION: Jim, cross reference the table with the conformance reports
- 18:03:36 [JR]
- agenda+ JR to Take updated alignment page from JA and re-org to show Priority view from WCAG
- 18:03:52 [JR]
- agenda+ Begin crafting comments to WCAG 2.0
- 18:04:03 [Zakim]
- +[IBM.a]
- 18:04:40 [JR]
- Zakim+ Review revision 2 UAAG - WCAG correlation table
- 18:04:47 [JR]
- Agenda+ Review revision 2 UAAG - WCAG correlation table
- 18:05:08 [cklaws]
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- 18:06:31 [jallan]
- http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/wcag2e.html
- 18:07:59 [jallan]
- JR: reviews message http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006AprJun/0045.html
- 18:08:29 [jallan]
- and attachement http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006AprJun/att-0045/uaag_support_for_WCAG20_levels.htm
- 18:10:04 [JR]
- JR: Explains email.
- 18:10:27 [JR]
- JA: Not sure where we need to go with comments...
- 18:11:07 [JR]
- JA: Only technical point is a problem with a reqwuirement in WCAG 2 to automatically leaping from form field to form field.
- 18:12:03 [JR]
- JA: Thinks we have done useful things in comparing with WCAG...
- 18:12:38 [JR]
- JA: but what else can we tell WCAG.
- 18:13:35 [JR]
- JA: We only have 2 more meetings before the deadline.
- 18:14:13 [jallan]
- jr: could report on our alignment exercise
- 18:14:39 [JR]
- JR: We comment on our exercise but not make any requests of them.
- 18:16:45 [JR]
- CL: Brings up fact that WCAG has checkpoints that we don't say anything about.
- 18:17:12 [JR]
- JA: Well some wcag stuff is totally content-focussed or overly broad.
- 18:18:48 [JR]
- JA: e.g. orders of nav bars etc.
- 18:20:00 [JR]
- CL: Also question about natural lang in 3.1.1 and 3.1.2
- 18:20:35 [jallan]
- cl: UAAG explict repect tab order (tab index)
- 18:20:53 [jallan]
- ja: do we need to have a function to ignore
- 18:21:15 [jallan]
- cl: should uaag require cofigurable tab order
- 18:22:02 [JR]
- CL: If lang attribute is P1...
- 18:23:12 [jallan]
- author has no control of user agent behavior (programatically determined)
- 18:23:24 [JR]
- JR: Maybe we have a comment on "programmatically determined" as a whole
- 18:24:18 [JR]
- CL: COuldn't find explicit reference to natural lang respect.
- 18:24:49 [jallan]
- cl: 3.1.1 is worded in a confusing manner, author can not ensure progamaticaly determined
- 18:27:03 [jallan]
- cl: can supply lang attrib, to enable the user agent to programatically determine the language
- 18:29:05 [JR]
- CL: Seems like this term is used in a way that shifts burden to ua's..
- 18:29:19 [JR]
- CL: when it should be on author (from wcag perspective)
- 18:29:21 [jallan]
- cl: programatically determined checkpoints seem more as a UAAG behavior rather than directed at the author
- 18:30:00 [jallan]
- the primary language should be provided by the web author so that it can be determined by the user agent
- 18:30:34 [jallan]
- cl: not sure we have the requirement solidified in UAAG
- 18:32:40 [JR]
- ja: so WCAG should just lay out what to do and ua's should catch up
- 18:35:19 [JR]
- ja: just noticed they want to separate technologies - but then make lots of implicit user agent requirements
- 18:38:07 [JR]
- JA:
- 18:39:01 [jallan]
- cl: reword to say "identify the primary natural language according to your basiline technology"
- 18:39:48 [JR]
- CL: The issue is in the phrasing.
- 18:41:18 [JR]
- JA: Yes there does seem to be a phrasing difference between other guidelines and these ones
- 18:42:59 [JR]
- action CL: find problematic instances of "programmatically determined" or other user agent assumptions
- 18:43:21 [JR]
- action JA: Help CL to do formulate re-phrasing.
- 18:44:32 [JR]
- JA: Also has a problem with content hacks of user agent functionality (e.g setting font size in the content)
- 18:45:59 [JR]
- action JA: Identify instances where wcag requires something of the author that really should be done by the user agent.
- 18:47:20 [JR]
- e.g. separate background audio control
- 18:51:13 [JR]
- action JR: take a look at the "programmatically determined" construct
- 18:53:19 [parent1]
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- 18:54:21 [JR]
- JA: starting to think more about uaag 1.1
- 18:54:25 [JR]
- CL: Agreed
- 18:54:41 [JR]
- JR: Agreed - prob will be lerss checkpoints, more simplified
- 18:55:01 [JR]
- CL: e.g. Different treatment of DOM, other topics incl. SVG.
- 18:55:48 [Zakim]
- -[IBM.a]
- 18:55:54 [Zakim]
- -[IBM]
- 18:55:59 [Zakim]
- -Jim_Allan
- 18:56:02 [Zakim]
- -Jan_Richards
- 18:56:03 [Zakim]
- WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
- 18:56:04 [Zakim]
- Attendees were [IBM], Jim_Allan, Jan_Richards
- 18:56:17 [JR]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 18:56:17 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-minutes.html JR
- 18:56:43 [JR]
- RRSAgent, set logs public
- 18:56:48 [JR]
- Zakim, bye
- 18:56:48 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #ua
- 18:56:53 [JR]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
- I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-actions.rdf :
- 18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: CL to find problematic instances of "programmatically determined" or other user agent assumptions [1]
- 18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-irc#T18-42-59
- 18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: JA to Help CL to do formulate re-phrasing. [2]
- 18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-irc#T18-43-21
- 18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: JA to Identify instances where wcag requires something of the author that really should be done by the user agent. [3]
- 18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-irc#T18-45-59
- 18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: JR to take a look at the "programmatically determined" construct [4]
- 18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-irc#T18-51-13