IRC log of ua on 2006-05-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:56:15 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-irc
17:58:50 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
17:58:57 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
17:59:28 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
17:59:37 [JR]
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18:00:00 [jallan]
Meeting: W3C User Agent Teleconference for 11 May 2006
18:00:24 [Zakim]
+Jan_Richards
18:01:17 [JR]
scribe: JR
18:01:23 [parente]
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18:01:36 [JR]
Chair: jallan
18:02:06 [jallan]
+[IBM] is Peter Parente
18:02:16 [JR]
zakim, agenda?
18:02:16 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
18:02:35 [jallan]
zakim, +[IBM] is Peter Parente
18:02:35 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+[IBM] is Peter Parente', jallan
18:02:57 [JR]
agenda+ ACTION: Jim, cross reference the table with the conformance reports
18:03:36 [JR]
agenda+ JR to Take updated alignment page from JA and re-org to show Priority view from WCAG
18:03:52 [JR]
agenda+ Begin crafting comments to WCAG 2.0
18:04:03 [Zakim]
+[IBM.a]
18:04:40 [JR]
Zakim+ Review revision 2 UAAG - WCAG correlation table
18:04:47 [JR]
Agenda+ Review revision 2 UAAG - WCAG correlation table
18:05:08 [cklaws]
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18:06:31 [jallan]
http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/wcag2e.html
18:07:59 [jallan]
JR: reviews message http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006AprJun/0045.html
18:08:29 [jallan]
and attachement http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006AprJun/att-0045/uaag_support_for_WCAG20_levels.htm
18:10:04 [JR]
JR: Explains email.
18:10:27 [JR]
JA: Not sure where we need to go with comments...
18:11:07 [JR]
JA: Only technical point is a problem with a reqwuirement in WCAG 2 to automatically leaping from form field to form field.
18:12:03 [JR]
JA: Thinks we have done useful things in comparing with WCAG...
18:12:38 [JR]
JA: but what else can we tell WCAG.
18:13:35 [JR]
JA: We only have 2 more meetings before the deadline.
18:14:13 [jallan]
jr: could report on our alignment exercise
18:14:39 [JR]
JR: We comment on our exercise but not make any requests of them.
18:16:45 [JR]
CL: Brings up fact that WCAG has checkpoints that we don't say anything about.
18:17:12 [JR]
JA: Well some wcag stuff is totally content-focussed or overly broad.
18:18:48 [JR]
JA: e.g. orders of nav bars etc.
18:20:00 [JR]
CL: Also question about natural lang in 3.1.1 and 3.1.2
18:20:35 [jallan]
cl: UAAG explict repect tab order (tab index)
18:20:53 [jallan]
ja: do we need to have a function to ignore
18:21:15 [jallan]
cl: should uaag require cofigurable tab order
18:22:02 [JR]
CL: If lang attribute is P1...
18:23:12 [jallan]
author has no control of user agent behavior (programatically determined)
18:23:24 [JR]
JR: Maybe we have a comment on "programmatically determined" as a whole
18:24:18 [JR]
CL: COuldn't find explicit reference to natural lang respect.
18:24:49 [jallan]
cl: 3.1.1 is worded in a confusing manner, author can not ensure progamaticaly determined
18:27:03 [jallan]
cl: can supply lang attrib, to enable the user agent to programatically determine the language
18:29:05 [JR]
CL: Seems like this term is used in a way that shifts burden to ua's..
18:29:19 [JR]
CL: when it should be on author (from wcag perspective)
18:29:21 [jallan]
cl: programatically determined checkpoints seem more as a UAAG behavior rather than directed at the author
18:30:00 [jallan]
the primary language should be provided by the web author so that it can be determined by the user agent
18:30:34 [jallan]
cl: not sure we have the requirement solidified in UAAG
18:32:40 [JR]
ja: so WCAG should just lay out what to do and ua's should catch up
18:35:19 [JR]
ja: just noticed they want to separate technologies - but then make lots of implicit user agent requirements
18:38:07 [JR]
JA:
18:39:01 [jallan]
cl: reword to say "identify the primary natural language according to your basiline technology"
18:39:48 [JR]
CL: The issue is in the phrasing.
18:41:18 [JR]
JA: Yes there does seem to be a phrasing difference between other guidelines and these ones
18:42:59 [JR]
action CL: find problematic instances of "programmatically determined" or other user agent assumptions
18:43:21 [JR]
action JA: Help CL to do formulate re-phrasing.
18:44:32 [JR]
JA: Also has a problem with content hacks of user agent functionality (e.g setting font size in the content)
18:45:59 [JR]
action JA: Identify instances where wcag requires something of the author that really should be done by the user agent.
18:47:20 [JR]
e.g. separate background audio control
18:51:13 [JR]
action JR: take a look at the "programmatically determined" construct
18:53:19 [parent1]
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18:54:21 [JR]
JA: starting to think more about uaag 1.1
18:54:25 [JR]
CL: Agreed
18:54:41 [JR]
JR: Agreed - prob will be lerss checkpoints, more simplified
18:55:01 [JR]
CL: e.g. Different treatment of DOM, other topics incl. SVG.
18:55:48 [Zakim]
-[IBM.a]
18:55:54 [Zakim]
-[IBM]
18:55:59 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
18:56:02 [Zakim]
-Jan_Richards
18:56:03 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
18:56:04 [Zakim]
Attendees were [IBM], Jim_Allan, Jan_Richards
18:56:17 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
18:56:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-minutes.html JR
18:56:43 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs public
18:56:48 [JR]
Zakim, bye
18:56:48 [Zakim]
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18:56:53 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-actions.rdf :
18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CL to find problematic instances of "programmatically determined" or other user agent assumptions [1]
18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-irc#T18-42-59
18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Help CL to do formulate re-phrasing. [2]
18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-irc#T18-43-21
18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA to Identify instances where wcag requires something of the author that really should be done by the user agent. [3]
18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-irc#T18-45-59
18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to take a look at the "programmatically determined" construct [4]
18:56:53 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/11-ua-irc#T18-51-13