20:29:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-arch
20:29:35 <hugo> RRSAgent, where am I?
20:29:35 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-29-35
20:29:53 <Zakim> WS_ArchWG()3:30PM has now started
20:29:57 <hugo> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-arch/2004Jan/0046.html
20:30:00 <Zakim> + +1.703.818.aaaa
20:30:14 <hugo> Meeting: Web Services Architecture Working Group call
20:31:52 <Zakim> +[Fujitsu]
20:31:59 <Zakim> +Hugo
20:32:11 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #ws-arch
20:32:19 <Zakim> +Roger
20:32:43 <Roger> Roger has joined #ws-arch
20:32:55 <Roger> zakim, who is here?
20:32:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mike.Champion, [Fujitsu], Hugo, Roger
20:32:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see Roger, dbooth, RRSAgent, fgm, Zakim, mchampion, mario, bijan, hugo
20:33:17 <Zakim> +Abbie
20:33:45 <Zakim> +Mario
20:33:58 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #ws-arch
20:34:24 <dbooth> hi guys.  i'm going to have zakim call me at my hotel in munich.  would someone please ask the receptionist to connect to my in room 449?  thanks.
20:34:29 <dbooth> zakim, call dbooth-munich
20:34:29 <Zakim> ok, dbooth; the call is being made
20:34:30 <Zakim> +Dbooth
20:34:32 <dbooth> my network connection is very flakey
20:35:24 <dbooth2> dbooth2 has joined #ws-arch
20:35:26 <Zakim> -Dbooth
20:35:52 <dbooth2> hugo?  mike?
20:36:00 <mchampion> hi david
20:36:19 <hugo> dbooth2, yes?
20:37:38 <Zakim> +Katia_Sycara
20:37:53 <hugo> dbooth2, we didn't get anything on the bridge
20:37:56 <mchampion> zakim, who is here?
20:37:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mike.Champion, [Fujitsu], Hugo, Roger, Abbie, Mario, Katia_Sycara
20:37:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see dbooth2, Roger, RRSAgent, fgm, Zakim, mchampion, mario, bijan, hugo
20:39:44 <yinleng> yinleng has joined #ws-arch
20:39:53 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #ws-arch
20:40:04 <mchampion> david, will you be able to call in?
20:40:35 <Zakim> +Sinisa
20:41:06 <mitrepauld> mitrepauld has joined #ws-arch
20:41:08 <fgm> .nick scribe
20:41:21 <dbooth2> dbooth2 has joined #ws-arch
20:41:58 <scribe> Any corrections on minutes?
20:41:58 <scribe> No
20:42:45 <dbooth2> zakim, call dbooth-munich
20:42:45 <Zakim> ok, dbooth2; the call is being made
20:42:46 <Zakim> +Dbooth
20:43:16 <scribe> ACTION: Katia to review Policy and Message models and update OWL by next week. [done]
20:43:19 <Zakim> +PaulD
20:43:29 <Zakim> -Dbooth
20:43:59 <Zakim> +??P12
20:44:26 <mchampion> zakim, +??P12 is gerald
20:44:26 <Zakim> sorry, mchampion, I do not recognize a party named '+??P12'
20:44:32 <Zakim> +??P13
20:44:49 <scribe> zakim, p12 is gerald
20:44:49 <Zakim> sorry, scribe, I do not recognize a party named 'p12'
20:45:20 <yinleng> zakim, ??P13 is yinleng
20:45:20 <Zakim> +yinleng; got it
20:45:44 <scribe> ACTION: dbooth to clarify term "service provider" and "service requester" and expand glossary [done]
20:46:12 <scribe> ACTION: Mike to add and wordsmith text in 3.11 choreography [pending]
20:46:25 <yinleng> zakim, ??P12 is gerald
20:46:25 <Zakim> +gerald; got it
20:46:29 <scribe> ACTION: Mike to propose changes to WS Reliability section in stakeholders perspective [pending]
20:46:41 <scribe> ACTION: MikeC to ping DavidOrchard for his input on the Resource [done]
20:46:55 <scribe> ACTION: Suresh to review doc and propose text on EBXML [dropped]
20:47:25 <scribe> ACTION: dbooth to remove the Management Model from section 2 [done]
20:48:35 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #ws-arch
20:48:37 <Zakim> +Dbooth
20:48:52 <scribe> ACTION: YinLeng to verify that the Management Stakeholder section is using the correct text [done]
20:50:21 <scribe> ACTION: YinLeng to verify that management terms are ok in Glossary [done]
20:50:33 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #ws-arch
20:50:40 <scribe> ACTION: MikeC to add Abbie's security text to next week's agenda [done]
20:51:19 <scribe> topic: Abbie's security
20:52:51 <scribe> 3 questions at teh editors call:
20:52:53 <dbooth2> dbooth2 has joined #ws-arch
20:53:03 <scribe> any existing text from security needs to be incorporated?
20:53:22 <scribe> what about the requirements, duplication with requirements doc
20:53:40 <scribe> should the securities spec be in the arch or in roger's list
20:53:57 <scribe> Roger: needs to be preserved
20:54:36 <scribe> roger: abbie's list is a good section. Needs to be preserved.
20:55:36 <scribe> hugo: we had a section on trust and discovery added to abbies section
20:56:23 <scribe> duplication of requirements less obvious now, so it is now good glue for the security section
20:57:09 <scribe> the technologies: only place in the arch where technologies discussed. taken out for now.
20:57:52 <scribe> Roger: I think the security specs deserve attention. The section is useful.
20:58:43 <scribe> Abbie: i'm relaxed about this
20:58:53 <scribe> Abbie: I added it because it was requested
20:59:09 <scribe> Gerald: I want to see security addressed
20:59:49 <scribe> scribe votes for annex
21:00:06 <scribe> Mike propose an annex
21:00:20 <scribe> frank
21:01:00 <scribe> Roger: I like the idea. The text has a higher level of consensus than my list.
21:01:40 <mchampion> dbooth, you're on IRC but not able to call in?
21:02:05 <mitrepauld> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/arch/wsa/wd-wsa-arch-review2.html?rev=1.100#id2281640
21:02:16 <Zakim> -Abbie
21:02:22 <mchampion> ACTION: hugo will incorporate Abbies list of security specs as an appendix
21:02:23 <scribe> ACTION: Hugo will incoporate Abibie's security as an annex
21:04:15 <scribe> The initial version of the OWL models are in http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~softagents/WSA_Ontologies/
21:04:47 <scribe> Topic: Mike's revision of 1.6
21:04:48 <mchampion> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/arch/wsa/wd-wsa-arch-review2.html?rev=1.100&content-type=text/html;%20charset=iso-8859-1#service_oriented_architecture
21:04:53 <dbooth> rrsagent, where am i?
21:04:53 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T21-04-53
21:06:45 <scribe> Roger: hugo's version reads more smoothly
21:07:02 <scribe> Roger: SOA has two arch constraints: small set of simple interfaces
21:07:14 <scribe> Roger: descriptive messages
21:09:15 <mitrepauld> rat hole
21:09:43 <scribe> Roger suggests using mike wording: Messages sent in a platform-neutral, standardized format delivered through the interfaces.
21:10:55 <mitrepauld> Avoid "self-descriptive"
21:12:39 <scribe> Agreed.
21:12:50 <scribe> Description is part of SOA.
21:13:02 <scribe> Third SOA constraint: describe everythign to death
21:13:46 <mitrepauld> 1.6.3  WWW is a SOA?
21:13:50 <Zakim> +??P30
21:14:14 <scribe> Third SOA constraint: Services, messages are described in a machine processable format
21:14:19 <dbooth> zakim, ? is Hao
21:14:19 <Zakim> +Hao; got it
21:14:30 <scribe> Roger: section of REST is paltry
21:15:13 <scribe> Roger: we can be more aggressive about what we mean
21:15:31 <scribe> Roger: I proposed some text
21:16:17 <dbooth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2004Jan/0144.html
21:17:04 <scribe> oger: what should we say about REST?
21:17:31 <scribe> Dbooth: Our arch permits both RESTful and non-RESTful Web services
21:17:47 <scribe> Roger: No critical analysis of REST
21:18:18 <mitrepauld> soap 1.2 provides the guidelines
21:18:50 <hugo> Note that I have replaced in the document my #2 constraint by Mike's
21:19:17 <scribe> Mario: REST does not include intermediaries security etc.
21:19:34 <scribe> Roger: We should write a critical analysis of REST, SOAP etc
21:19:58 <scribe> Mike: Will draft something
21:20:02 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #ws-arch
21:21:01 <scribe> Roger: The world needs something on the meaning of REST
21:21:15 <Roger> zakim, who is talking?
21:21:26 <Zakim> Roger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike.Champion (77%), [Fujitsu] (13%), Mario (4%), Katia_Sycara (4%), PaulD (34%)
21:21:29 <scribe> ACTION: mike will draft text on REST 
21:21:37 <yinleng> Frank, I've just checked CVS, the current version of section 3.8 is old, not my latest
21:24:56 <Roger> zakim, who is talking?
21:25:06 <Zakim> Roger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Fujitsu] (34%), Mario (4%), PaulD (19%)
21:26:23 <mitrepauld> Yin Leng: set of mgmt "operations" since wsdl 1.2 has single "interface"
21:27:24 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #ws-arch
21:28:42 <mitrepauld> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2004Jan/0122.html
21:30:34 <Zakim> +Abbie
21:32:30 <scribe> Roger: we need a common reference version of the arch
21:33:34 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #ws-arch
21:34:58 <scribe> pauld: The WWW is a SOA? Maybe not ...
21:35:40 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #ws-arch
21:36:00 <dbooth> We should all print the document at 4pm US Pacific time on Friday so that we are all looking at the same version.
21:36:34 <dbooth> US pacific time is UTC-8.
21:37:03 <scribe> Any other comments on Abbie's security text?
21:37:53 <scribe> Liberty Alliance to go into security annex list
21:38:29 <scribe> Topic: agenda for the F2F
21:39:53 <scribe> Time proportional to pages
21:40:29 <mitrepauld> +1
21:40:36 <scribe> Introduction needs a disproportionate amount of time
21:41:03 <scribe> Reliability needs time
21:41:54 <scribe> Remaining issues
21:42:08 <scribe> The future and what we don't do
21:43:26 <mitrepauld> MEP in 2.3.1.7
21:43:33 <scribe> MEP text needs special thinking
21:48:50 <scribe> Editorial comment: how about dropping 3.6? It seems vestigial
21:49:24 <scribe> paulD: registry model seems blurry
21:50:09 <scribe> davidB: authoratative applies to registry not to its contents
21:50:24 <scribe> topic: mail lists
21:50:55 <scribe> pauld: registries some are authoratative others are not.
21:51:11 <scribe> how do you spell authorotative?
21:51:53 <scribe> Mike: registries are auth...ive because people tend to go there
21:53:09 <scribe> everyone is in agreement
21:53:26 <scribe> ACTION: DavidB to revise wording on autho...ive
21:53:46 <yinleng> Should we say "recognized" place rather than "authoritative" place to look?
21:54:14 <scribe> topic: end of life as we know it
21:54:51 <scribe> davidB: please ask your AC rep to voice your opinion
21:55:28 <scribe> Katia: what happens to document, editing etc.
21:56:07 <scribe> Only mechanical changes can be sanctioned
22:00:20 <scribe> W3C can only promote the doc if there is an obvious continuation of some kind
22:00:37 <scribe> private individuals and companies can mention and reference it
22:00:41 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #ws-arch
22:00:51 <scribe> SWSL intends to reference it
22:01:26 <scribe> Mike: plan to use it for evangelical purposes
22:02:12 <scribe> Roger: also intends to pretend that its authorotative
22:03:12 <dbooth2> dbooth2 has joined #ws-arch
22:04:41 <yinleng> Got to go now, have a good f2f!
22:04:53 <Zakim> -yinleng
22:05:59 <mitrepauld> got to go too,  bye
22:06:04 <Zakim> -PaulD
22:07:08 <Zakim> -gerald
22:08:46 <dbooth> http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/02144_f.html
22:10:11 <yinleng> yinleng has left #ws-arch
22:11:54 <Zakim> -Abbie
22:12:06 <Zakim> -Mario
22:12:14 <Zakim> -Roger
22:12:16 <Zakim> -Hao
22:12:17 <Zakim> -Mike.Champion
22:12:20 <Zakim> -Hugo
22:12:21 <Zakim> -Sinisa
22:12:22 <Zakim> -Katia_Sycara
22:12:36 <hugo> RRSAgent, please excuse us
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> I see 14 open action items:
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Katia to review Policy and Message models and update OWL by next week. [done] [1]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-43-16
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: dbooth to clarify term "service provider" and "service requester" and expand glossary [done] [2]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-45-44
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mike to add and wordsmith text in 3.11 choreography [pending] [3]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-46-12
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mike to propose changes to WS Reliability section in stakeholders perspective [pending] [4]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-46-29
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MikeC to ping DavidOrchard for his input on the Resource [done] [5]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-46-41
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Suresh to review doc and propose text on EBXML [dropped] [6]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-46-55
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: dbooth to remove the Management Model from section 2 [done] [7]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-47-25
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: YinLeng to verify that the Management Stakeholder section is using the correct text [done] [8]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-48-52
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: YinLeng to verify that management terms are ok in Glossary [done] [9]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-50-21
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MikeC to add Abbie's security text to next week's agenda [done] [10]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T20-50-40
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: hugo will incorporate Abbies list of security specs as an appendix [11]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T21-02-22
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Hugo will incoporate Abibie's security as an annex [12]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T21-02-23
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mike will draft text on REST  [13]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T21-21-29
22:12:36 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DavidB to revise wording on autho...ive [14]
22:12:36 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/01/22-ws-arch-irc#T21-53-26