SRT: Given the problems with file formats and then the virus storm the agenda has only turned up today. This means we (the chairs) fall foul of the 24 hour rule. Therefore I would like to hear if there are any objections to proceeding with this meeting on the basis that the agenda was not published 24 hours prior to the meeting.
SRT: Hearing no objections the meeting will proceed.
Agenda_20040127.htm
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Chairs: |
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Oracle | |
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Enigmatec | |
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W3C Staff Contacts |
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Members (NOTE THIS IS FROM PREVIOUS WEEK – NEED ROLE CALL RESULTS ADDED)
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Choreology Ltd | |
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Cisco Systems Inc | |
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Commerce One | |
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Intalio Inc. | |
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Nortel Networks | |
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Novell | |
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Oracle Corporation | |
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Oracle Corporation | |
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SAP AG | |
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SeeBeyond Technology Corporation | |
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Sun Microsystems, Inc. | |
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Sun Microsystems, Inc. | |
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TIBCO Software |
Monica Martin volunteered to scribe.
IRC log is at: http://www.w3.org/2004/01/27-ws-chor-irc - T21-09-12
The following is a listof recent scribes (in order): Ugo, Corda, Mayilraj Krishnan, Ravi Byako, Martin Chapman, Steve Ross-Talbot, Monica Martin, Nick Kavantzas,Ed Peters, Anthony Fletcher, Jeff Michkinsky, Dinesh Shahane, Greg Ritzinger, Ed Peters, David Burdett,Ivana Trickovic, Ugo Corda, Assaf Arkin, MonicaMartin, Carol McDonald, Nick Kavantzas, Tony Fletcher, Mayilraj Krishnan, Francis McCabe, Jeff Mischkinsky, David Burdett ,John Dart, MonicaMartin,Tony, Fletcher, Jim Hendler, Kevin Liu, TonyFletcher, Jon Dart, DavidBurdett,Ed Peters, Greg Ritzinger, Monica Martin, LenGreski, Jean-JacquesDubray,Monica Martin, Mayilraj Krishnan, FrancisMcCabe, Michael Champion,AbbieBarbir, David Burdett, Jon Dart, Carol McDonald,Yaron Goland, LeonardGreski,Ed Peters, Greg Ritzinger, Daniel Austin, PeterFurniss, Jim Hendler
Minutes 20th January 2004 (to do)
Minutes approved
ACTION: Chairs to communicate f&p requirement to WS-CG (0113, 0120) DONE
ACTION: chairs should also ask marco to see if his requirements are captured within the latest req-doc (0113, 0120, 0127) IN PROGRESS
ACTION: record exceptions/errors as an issue. (0113, 0120, 0127) REPLACED
NEW ACTION: SRT and MM will provide further detail on the “banana-calculus” discussions in order to record this issue properly.
NEW ACTION: SRT will update bugzilla entries to reflect this.
These two new actions replace older action above.
ACTION:log as an issue is fork/join covered as requirements (0113, 0120) DONE
ACTION:log as an issue if external/internal choice is covered as requirements (0113, 0120) CLOSED (covered in 342)
ACTION: Yves to add editor's draft on the public page (0113, 0120, 0127) IN PROGRESS
Yves: Model overview on public page. Need HTML/XML version.
Burdett: Not received on mailing list.
Burdett: Make available HTML/XML version to list and Yves.
SRT: Leave issue in progress.
ACTION: Nick to define the features required of an intermediate end-point language (0113, 0120) IN PROGRESS
Kavantzas: Intermediate endpoint language - work in progress. Need feedback in modeling overview before proceeding.
ACTION: convert ER diagrams into UML class diagrams (0113, 0120, 0127) IN PROGRESS
Ritzinger: Converted ER to UML-class diagrams. Review pending Kavantzas/Burdett. Meeting cancelled this morning.
ACTION:editors to propose documents and table of contents (0113, 0120, 0127) IN PROGRESS
Kavantzas: Resolve this week.
Burdett: TOC has made more progress. Converging documents and TOC. Ritzinger review during call and then send to the list.
ACTION:Monica to confirm hosting east coast pending a date from group. (0113, 0120) DONE
ACTION: Greg to check with Novell for hosting offer DONE..
Ritzinger: Next F2F in Summer 2004; Novell can do a F2F in Massachusetts for about 20 people.
Chapman: F2F: Suggest June 2004.
SRT: 23-25 June 2004 proposed.
SRT: 9-11 June 2004 proposed.
Chapman: Members to inform of conflicting events.
NEW ACTION: Martin/Ritzinger: Check to confirm proposed F2F location/dates/availability.
Kavantzas: Registration for March F2F?
Chapman: Plenary registration
Yves: Look at general member page.
Yves: Check to see if it linked.
See: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/TPOverview.html
ACTION: Chairs to look into a far east meeting in sep/oct (0113, 0120, 0127) IN PROGRESS
ACTION: Chairs to organise an issues conference call in which the regular conf call is used with members to look at the issue in bugzilla (possibly the Jan6th conf call) (0113, 0120, 0127) ON HOLD UNTIL REQ DOC AVAILABLE FOR REVIEW
ACTION: Chairs to write proposal for group in defense of f&p in WSDL. (0113, 0120) DONE
ACTION: SRT to ask Honda, Yoshida, and Milner if they would be prepared to be invited experts. (0113) DONE
SRT: Invited experts – Dr. Nobuko Yoshida and Professor Robin Milner have accepted out invitation. Still awaiting a response from Dr. Kohei Honda.
NEW ACTION: Yves to steer through W3C procedure for invited experts.
ACTION: DA to schedule the editors meeting (0113) DONE
Austin: Reqts team met last week; task list drawn up. Barbir, SRT tasks done.
ACTION: Chairs to raise a topic of Binding, Context etc. (0113, 0120, 0127) IN PROGRESS
ACTION: Editors of the requirements are directed to look at the issues list and filter each issue in a similar way to thefiltering method used at the F2F. To be taken into account at editors meeting in November. (1021, 1028,1111, 1118, 1125, 1202, 1209,0106, 0113, 0120, 0127) REPLACED
ACTION: With respect to requirements doc- Abbie to send via email the corrected document as soon as available. (0106, 0113, 0120) REPLACED
ACTION: Requirements Editors – Review requirements doc by Jan13th including issues list review against document. (0106, 0113, 0120) REPLACED
NEW ACTION: Editors to issue requirements document for review on public mailing list for next call.
NEW ACTION: Chairs to schedule conference call to review requirements document (see above) .
ACTION: Steve/Martin - let us see some email traffic to manage the process to get the requirements doc reviewed quickly and published -if we cannot make it by 13th (which is tight) then we inform the members as such. (0106, 0113, 0120, 0127) DEPENDENT ON REQ DOC REVIEW (see above)
ACTION: Task Nick/David to come up with the what to do next by 27th (0106, 0113, 0120, 0127) IN PROGRESS
NEW ACTION: Steve to ask WSD WG whether they intend to support publish/subscribe MEP. (0120, 0127)
NEW ACTION: Spec editors to look at Attributes discussions in WSD WG archives and see if concepts can also apply to Choreography – Provide recommendation on how to proceed. (0120) DONE
NEW ACTION: future agenda item on choreography, Grid and Web services Management (0120) DONE
Nothing further to report
Nothing further to report
SRT: Model overview document: Ask for questions.
MM: Does transaction = choreography transaction?
Burdett: Related to recovery. Chor describes sequences of messages exchanged related to a transaction. Look at Section 3.0.
Burdett: Multiple transactions within a choreography could occur.
Burdett: Each recovery units are defined as separate choreographies.
DB: Let's try to re-explain what we mean by txn.
MM: Issues or lack of understanding is in lines 234 - 238
MM: Are u seeing txns only in the terms of the choreography?
DB: Yes we are.
MM: Then you need to make this clear. Because there is history behind the notion of txn and therefore it needs to be made very clear as to what you mean.
MM: I'd like to get more detail on "import"
DB: Our current "import" is not something we are totally happy with.
MC: I would suggest that what you should use to extend or refine needs to use a diff mechanism. Rather than lexical inclusion.
SRT: Return to Model Overview in next conference call along with reqts document.
SRT: Bring F2F issues to the call 3 February 2004.
SRT: Need team to review and comments.
NEW ACTION: Team to review the Model Overview prior to next meeting. Martin: New use cases may impact Model Overview.
Burdett: Auction use case as well.
Burdett: Can we get auction use case in reqts document?
SRT: Identify reqts not listed in the reqts document (that may be in a use case such as the Auction one).
Chapman: Keep number of use cases at a premium.
SRT: Need to make sure reqts identified in multi-party use case.
Note: M.Martin provided some suggestions for functions that need to be expressed in requirements' ease (sent to list today).
Burdett: Is more than one participant in a role handled? Chapman/SRT: Yes.
SRT: Liaison reports - Globus announcement?
SRT: WS-ResourceFramework announcement
SRT: OGSI retracted attribute reqts.
SRT: Specifications are not in a standards body.
Austin: Sun's representative has raised this issue about standards' body submission to GGF.
SRT: What can we do to make an impact, to support our work? Austin: WSA has addressed provisioning and resources.
Chapman: Need to explore at a chairs' level.
SRT: Look at WS-Agreement; choreography added value.
Chapman: BPEL status response?
M.Martin: Fell to the chairs to respond.
Attributes in WSDL2.0 (see action above)
Corda: WSDL 2.0 attributes. Grid not interested in pursuing attributes; use WS-RF.
Corda: Attributes were not a strong point for WSDL 2.0 and they may not be pursued.
SRT: Stateful aspects - Is this how we should use the attributes? Should we base our work on functions outside of a standards body.
Austin: Can we reference a non-standard or a specification under development in a standards body.
Yves: Can only reference if non-normative.
SRT: What did attributes give us? Approach GGF and ask their intent. Austin: Ask WSD for comment.
SRT: WSD will drop attributes.
Austin: Will we be the only ones that may complain?
Chapman: Do we have a need?
Burdett: Concrete choreography may need to reference or describe attributes. Have not reviewed to formalize this idea.
Corda: Attribute is not a property.
Corda: Attributes are about how to manage, inquire about state.
SRT: Attributes are like instance variables.
Chapman: Agree.
Chapman: Observable variables.
SRT: Need to provide capability to GET/SET for that variable if no WSD attributes.
Austin: Are we putting functionality into a proprietary forum? Chapman: Architectural issues are under discussion about identity models.
SRT: Related to binding of a web service to an identifiable instance? Chapman: Yes.
SRT: Enforce consistency across multiple identifies.
Chapman: Need to understand in choreography.
Chapman: What is the state?
Corba: WS-RF overlap to WS-CAF?
Corba: WS-Context may be relevant to choreography.
Corba: Can concentrate on them.
SRT: No reason/strong case identified for WSD attributes. Case identified for GET/SET where web services need to consolidate state to make it observable.
SRT: Close issue and allow WSD to take action.
Relevance of WS-Agreement
Not discussed.
NONE