http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-ws-chor/2003Sep/att-0022/agenda_30_Sep_2003.htm
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Chairs |
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Oracle | |||
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W3C Staff Contacts
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Attendees:
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Choreology Ltd | |
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Cisco Systems Inc | |
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Commerce One | |
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Fujitsu Ltd | |
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Hitachi, Ltd. | |
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Intalio Inc. | |
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Nortel Networks | |
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Novell | |
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Oracle Corporation | |
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Oracle Corporation | |
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SeeBeyond Technology Corporation | |
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Software AG | |
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Sun Microsystems, Inc. | |
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Sun Microsystems, Inc. | |
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webMethods, Inc. |
Raw IRC log at: http://www.w3.org/2003/09/30-ws-chor-irc
Carol McDonald (Sun) volunteered for minutes.
The following is a list of recent scribes (in order): Nick Kavantzas, Tony Fletcher, Mayilraj Krishnan, Francis McCabe, Jeff Mischkinsky, David Burdett ,John Dart, Monica Martin, Tony, Fletcher, Jim Hendler, Kevin Liu, Tony Fletcher, Jon Dart, David Burdett, Ed Peters, Greg Ritzinger, Monica Martin, Len Greski, Jean-Jacques Dubray, Monica Martin, Mayilraj Krishnan, Francis McCabe, Michael Champion, Abbie Barbir, David Burdett, Jon Dart, Carol McDonald, Yaron Goland, Leonard Greski, Ed Peters, Greg Ritzinger, Daniel Austin, Peter Furniss, Jim Hendler
Minutes 9th September 2003
mchapman approving minutes for 9 sept. Minutes approved
Minutes September 2003 F2F
still need urls before approving F2F minutes can comment on next version, so defer approval to next meeting.
Actions from previous meeting marked with *
Organisational
ACTION*: Steve to facilitate calling a Requirements / Use Case editors meeting. Ongoing
Steve trying to sort this out for sometime in October.
ACTION*: Dave will call a meeting, to discuss how to take the two CDL contributions and come up with a baseline document
and match it with the revised requirements document. Ongoing
ACTION: Chairs to put liaison with UN/CEFACT on next con call agenda. DONE
On this agenda.
Usecases/requirements
ACTION: David Burdett to provide a design collaboration use case. Ongoing
ACTION*: Steve: Will put all the comments on draft requirements above into the requirements spreadsheet and send out. Ongoing
ACTION*: Editors of the requirements are directed to look at the issues list and filter each issue in a similar way to the filtering method used at the F2F. Ongoing
ACTION*: Tony to rephrase his requirements and bring back to group. DONE
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2003Sep/0069.html
ACTION*: Requirements editors to consider an EAI use case and think about within and across firewalls. Ongoing
monica: eai use cases: those that submitted could pull out elements that are enterprise within use cases already done
monica: use case owners extract highlight eai aspects of their use cases
NEW ACTION: Use Case proposers to highlight/extract any EAI specific aspects from their use cases.
BurdettML
ACTION: DB to produce a commentary on how Burdett ML meets (or not) the current requirements. Ongoing
Partially done for F2F, but needs to be completed
Issues
ACTION: SRT Brought semantics question to the TAG. On chairs coordination call, he asked about semantics for/of choreography. A new Semantic Web Services Interest Group is being formed in about one month. Issue will be sent to that group when it is formed. Ongoing
chapman: whats happening with requirements?
ed peters: we are looking to get together at a F2F, need to filter issues list
chapman: any new issues for issues list?
WSA has process doc for issue resolution, should we adopt something like that? Need to provide a reference
NEW ACTION: chairs look at WSA issues process and recommend whether it should be adopted by this group.
chapman: liaisons
feedback from bpel meeting?
chapman: made a 10 min report on the choreo F2F. reaction was good on our 2 language contributions, work to merge 2.
anything else from bpel?
Tony: liaisions got the graveyard slot!
chapman: as a good faith effort should invite them for current status report at next f2f. Too one way currently
monica: discussion about uncefact work raises other issues. How are liaison related to work we want to accomplish
tony: it would be good to make it more 2 way and invite liaison from bpel group to next f2f
chapman: tony gave overview at F2F but ran out of time did not get to discuss
tony: tried to give overview , gave same presentation at Bpel
tony: gave overview uncefact organization which is different. Grand plan of things
slides are on W3C site ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2003Oct/0000.html)
tony: report on delta and bits which are pertinent for choreo
tony: at F2f gave overview of organization. Future concentrate on developement and bits which are relevant for choreo
chapman: do we want to give them information as well, do we need to set up liaison with uncefact
tony : don't know . meeting in Austria, can ask if they are interested and report back
chapman: any other comments? should do something more proactive?
tony: just had meeting in Seoul , have not heard feedback from that yet.
NEW ACTION: Tony to keep group updated on un/cefact
NEW ACTION: chairs to explore with UN/CEFECT whether a liaison is of mutual interest
chapman: oasis announced new TC for BPSS , hasn't started yet , should talk about if we want to talk with them
monica: 1st meeting 20 Oct
chapman: monica do you want to tell us goals of TC , how it fits with choreo, do we need liaison?
monica: internally focused on ebusiness and model for collaboration could work in complementary manner to ws-chor
chapman: wait for TC to get up and running and then have discussion between 2 groups
20:36:34 [MChapman]
chapman: next item proposed new use case , discuss, decide what to do with it
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-chor/2003Sep/0046.html
chapman: use case from Marco Adragna [marco.adragna@kellogg.oxford.ac.uk]
tony : web services going in direction of loose coupling , not concerned with implementation focus is on message
frank: is this a use case?
chapman: probably not, but not much different than some of our other use cases
not rpc message type thing. static methods in distributed env do not scale.
jeff: static information is not usable externally
jeff: not visible in distributed environments
??: I think he is just giving analogy. get at notion set of services that will create stateful interaction
concrete example like travel agent might have parent methods create travel package, then set of services for hotel reservation in travel package
wind up with static methods on travel package , instance methods allow hotel reservation
chapman: like factory pattern?
asserting usefulness of factory pattern
chapman: still struggling to see what this has to do with choreo
jeff: debate going on in WSA about this topic
issue which could be choreo or underlying infrastructure.
chapman: factories useful in choreo if you want to model messages for factory then you would model like any other choreography.
would need concrete example of factory pattern
jeff: need factory pattern to instantiate choreo, but not fundamental for choreo
chapman: one could say factory pattern highlight dynamic nature. Does this use case add any new information to our requirements. Maybe dynamic nature factory ability to add addresses..
chapman: not convinced should be dismissed or has something that we don't already have so needs analysis by requirements people
tony: should ask him to make sure we understand what he is getting at
NEW ACTION: Chairs to reply to Marco requesting clarification of his use case
chapman: next agenda threads WS awarness of choreo concluded?
chapman: simultaneous execution?
frank: little work lately
chapman: should not relax and stop talking
David: need choreo multiple participants same role
chapman: did we talk about this?
david: agreed requirement? do we need to think of solutions. my spec does not address it
chapman: what point do we think of solutions?
david: can define interaction buyer and seller can occur one or more times, how do you synchronize responses
chapman: need to raise iterator in requirements? might be too detailed there?
david: think about this is a problem we want to solve specify variable number destinations, and synchronization before moving on
chapman:isn't this already in requirements?
david: do we need to do anything else at this stage?
david: don't know when design choreo don't know participants and number,
chapman: does anyone think this hasn't been captured in requirements?
nick: oracle proposal captures this requirement. can have multiple instantiantions of role but unbounded part not captured
nick : need to look at unbounded part
david: when define choreo can say 1 , 0-1 , or many
chapman: need to be able to name participants, need to be able to correlate responses
chapman: need a handle on responses
nick: otherwise will not be able to do sync
tony: don't fix actual number at design time, at runtime fix number
nick: need concept of array
chapman: may know number of participants
chapman: unbound at runtime is important. need handles
nick: need handle on channel and documents, responses correllated back to handle
chapman: talk about F2F in Australia
chapman: narrow majority for attending in Australia, will there be enough people to make a productive meeting? open up an online pre-registration for the meeting and
based on numbers chairs will make executive decision. Pre registration will be open for two weeks (to Monday 13th)
please register intention (registration page at: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34340/WS-Chor)
monica:bpel might have their's in Europe. if ibm hosts maybe Berlin. Date no decided on yet.
chapman: any other compelling topic?
frank: question setting up F2F for discussion oracle presentation, is that happening
david: 15-16 oct in bay area f2f to discuss
tony: clarification on transaction requirements next week
NEW ACTION: chairs put tony's requirements on agenda on next week
chapman: John Dart has left Tibco, formally like to thank him for contribution to this group.
Tibco still intends to participate
ACTION: chairs look at WSA issues process and recommend whether it should be adopted by this group.
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/30-ws-chor-irc#T20-22-01
ACTION: Tony to keep group updated on un/cefact
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/30-ws-chor-irc#T20-32-44
ACTION: chairs to explore with UN/CEFECT whether a liaison is of mutual interest
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/30-ws-chor-irc#T20-33-04
ACTION: Chairs to reply to Marco requesting clarification of his use case
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/30-ws-chor-irc#T20-50-10
ACTION: chairs put tony's requirements on agenda on next week
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/30-ws-chor-irc#T21-08-17
Organisational
ACTION: Steve to facilitate calling a Requirements / Use Case editors meeting.
ACTION: Dave will call a meeting, to discuss how to take the two CDL contributions and come up with a baseline document
and match it with the revised requirements document.
Usecases/requirements
ACTION : David Burdett to provide a design collaboration use case.
ACTION: Steve: Will put all the comments on draft requirements above into the requirements spreadsheet and send out.
ACTION: Editors of the requirements are directed to look at the issues list and filter each issue in a similar way to the filtering method used at the F2F.
ACTION: Requirements editors to consider an EAI use case and think about within and across firewalls.
monica: eai use cases: those that submitted could pull out elements that are enterprise within use cases already done
monica: use case owners extract highlight eai aspects of their use cases
BurdettML
ACTION : DB to produce a commentary on how Burdett ML meets (or not) the current requirements.
Issues
ACTION: SRT Brought semantics question to the TAG. On chairs coordination call, he asked about semantics for/of choreography. A new Semantic Web Services Interest Group is being formed in about one month. Issue will be sent to that group when it is formed.