Shawn someone sent an introduction, how about if I send something.
Judy that would be great, not a requirement but always helpful.
Harvey get a message?
Judy some of meetings notes I'll be sending shortly. Notes are behind, except last set. Should be there in a week. Will show the the AUWG, great notes. No reason for such a low cap on the AUWG bridge. We had a very good turnout from EO. I'm sorry there wasn't more time for freer discussion. EO folks didn't have enough time to speak in. Who did the minutes. Three meetings this week. Friday also. Poll for meeting this Friday.
Helle I thought you would be out of office this week.
Judy Friday is freed for meeting. Doyle will do notes. Update outreach? Shawn you don't know who everybody is. Everyone do your name organizations once around.
Harvey digital talking books.
David equal access.
Judy W3C/WAI
Natasha Lipka, with HP. Palo Alto.
Audrey access for all, most recently working for ALA
Sara Dartmouth
David equal access testing,
Shawn Henry independent contractor in Madison Wisconsin. Shawn will use initials SLH
Judy outreach updates, presentations of web accessibility. I was at a conference presenting on accessibility for the Spanish Presidency of the European Union, focusing on accessbility, many of presenters referenced our work, including the guidelines. Some of the players seem to be considering procurement standards and possibly reference the authoring tool guideline. Had a number of side conversations. A very high demand for implimentation materials. Evaluation suites. And also the first of March, I presented to an international group how WAI make guidelines, and outreach materials. Some links to point to later this week,
Natasha I have received a message from Brazil until 2003, have gone through … HP Brazil is helping to spread the concept through the Market. Provided us with web sites with accessibility.
Judy I had got a message from someone from Brazil.
Natasha, I will get more information about this.
Judy what made them so active.
Natasha accessibility is a competitive advantage.
Audrey in library land, a big thing going on with virtual reference services. About accessibility in virtual reference.
Harvey the library are finding their traditional reference desk is being replaced by on line searches.
Audrey In some libraries but in other libraries that is not so true.
David, Vision Australia, developing on line learning for schools to make as much of e-learning through out Australia, making more and more developers the necessity of accessibility for students.
Judy I committed to do a chapter, about accessible and re-useable curriculum. Other updates? Update from joint meeting, AUWG and EOWG met for the first time. A link in the agenda. The change log notes. A few more links, a link to a message from Phil Jenkins. A problem with the phone bridge. We blew the bridge capacity and some of AU members couldn't get on. Phill picked up that an issue wasn't followed up on. A little additon input from Phil Jenkins also. I want to see if people agree on that.
All on Selecting software for accessibility. Anyone need the link? I wanted to just check to look at the change log. Make sure we are ok that came to the meeting. A number of people here was in that. Harvey, Audrey, Natasha, Helle, were there… Just to check on the change log up. Six requests during the meeting, to say more about user feedback, incorporate, what users are saying, tie into authoring, A prompt is a workaround for 4.1, 4.2, use plugin. Some for EO to do.
Sara I was a little confused about the first point.
Judy Jan Richards felt that feedback for the audience for the site. One was what were your users say about how the well the tools support the accessible content. Sara my understanding the group discussion, the person who was asking the audience about the proposals, most people felt that was too vague. Too many variables that affect.
Sara, that was where I got tripped up. The document in isolation would need that, but this is in a series.
Judy I think we address that in a document where …the conclusion was to leave it out. Everyone comfortable with that. Any other questions.
Helle, I agree with Sara on that question. I was a little uncertain. As I recall the meeting the users might be satisfied with tool they already have. When you come to this point where you have a policy, maybe we have to buy a new authoring tool. I am highly confused about some of these questions. How to order with the other documents.
Judy I am not following.
Helle I am not sure with this question.
Judy of the the three questions, …how do the current web masters like the tool. …My understanding was that he meant the general audience wanted. My understanding of the rationale, that people felt if the web masters said, by the way we can't stand the tool we are using now, this makes this thing ten times harder, and that would be very valuable information to help expedite getting a new tool. The opposite is when someone says they love the tool even though it produces junk. Any body have concerns here?
Harvey the web masters are more concerned with keeping their site simple and up, they don't have to be convinced.
Audrey in some organizations if they are happy with the tools…
Judy is there a more precise way to pose this question? Helle?
Helle I only have the change log at the moment, I need to look at the proper document. Maybe if we could put in a sentence at the front, in regard to making the web site accessibility, how does the current author, see their authoring tool, …
Judy added something to that, if an organization is going to get new software, the people who currently use the tools, suitability of the current software, producing web sites with regard to accessibility, and some ideas that other tools that could do that.
Shawn how does this tool make a site accessible. How do you feel this tool facilitates accessible, and do you have other suggestions that would do better.
Judy I think that these people play with it outside the office.
Harvey they might want to use additional software focused on repair.
Judy we have a repair section in the other parts, and forgot the Authors about that?
Sara It is all there, already pointing to plugins and utilities.
Judy …I hadn't intended initially going back into this. Any other questions or comments on the other questions or change requests. Agree to the change requests?
Sara explain the third thing is?
Judy storage of reuse of equivalent a very effective part of the tools. Add to focus on this issue. Create a system to store and reuse. A complex website with a ton images, that …some authoring tools require a library of alt text that keeps an image together with the text. In many cases may appear fifteen hundred times, and shows the benefits of automation.
Sara add the examination of a library.
Judy add the need for storage and reuse.
Natasha any technologies that support that? One more question, we are struggling with developing some guidelines?
Judy look at the WTAG techniques page, especially the HTML guidance. Pick HTML module. Harvey got any suggestions.
Helle at one point …had some suggestions about reuse.
Judy I wonder first that WC3 has some.
Natasha we have some straightforward examples, what is the best way to say link, go forward.
Judy why don't people send some suggestions to Natasha. Are people agreeing to this.
Sara I agree to that, but if there are some utilities that do this.
Judy list utilities for storing and reusing alt text if available. Any other comments.
Harvey geographic format allows text contained within it allows that to accompany the graphic.
Judy a pointer that I can use to point to? Any other questions or comments about the change requests from Monday. I wanted to point, the EO members said to AU, use links for compatible plugins.
Harvey great difficulties to have hundreds of authoring tools.
Judy use the review process to get through to …from outside W3C we have constraints, we can't rip apart or promote individual tools. A few other issues, follow the links to Phil Jenkins, what happened to the discussion on software and tools and policy issues. I forgot to reply that it is linked form the agenda. EO emphasize software in many more of our documents, and it seems there was agreement. Put much more emphsize on AU. Do people agree with that change request or questions? Do people know what this is?
Sara we are looking at the mail message from Phil Jenkins? Did you reply to his issue # 1?
Judy yes.
Sara he was talking about this specific document or more general?
Judy what else does EO think or would like AU to point to.
Sara I don't think they are the right group to point to.
Judy that page is by the evaluation and repair working group. EO is supposed to work over the format of that. Clean up and make a resource suite. The tools group is supposed to help with that.
Harvey tools group is pretty much dormant.
Judy I am trying to get them back in action. A hypothetical agreement. Besides what Sara was concerned…
Sara we are often crossing over into the activism arena, people want to use this as a forum. I don't know if you want to go down.
Judy be more specific?
Sara I am not certain that is the right thing to do. There was some interesting emails about this. Provide downloadable document.
Judy I may have missed some of those?
Sara Bill had something coming across, a form letter about this.
Judy I would like to comment about that kind of suggestion. The WAI steering council, has no direct responsibilities, partly made up sponsores, representatives, I asked them gave them pointers for all the resources suite, how could the suite be promoted. A little bit similar to what Bill was saying, put an extra page on the suite, oriented to the disability community or organizations about promoting accessibilities. If you want to improve a site, send a little message with this linked and they would send out a message about what could be done. Do people like that idea.
Shawn I do that myself. I could help with that myself. On the 508 list, we had a discussion to be careful about the WAI position.
Harvey, they have rules about not buying until it is accessible.
Judy Shawn could you clarify.
Shawn the discussion was somebody that they had a accessible e-learning, I said basically we need to inform and encourage constructively, instead of attacking, basically the discussion was the attitude we hand….Doyle called had to stop a little while.
Judy
Sara that one you were talking about, a URL that isn't accessible? Not up to par?
Judy there is a lot of people who promote that are accessibility, a lot of times it is so demoralizing , a little precomposed note, we notice you aren't accessible and there are some resources to improve your site. We had a web accessibility tool. Checklists that are violated.
Helle didn't they have something similar in the ER group?
Judy related to the WART tool.
Helle it was a bit quite a bit of work, I know the UK Julia Howe from RNIB, she had a standard letter to send to people.
Judy Some of their strategies are hard hitting.
Helle they have varying degrees letters, do you know about accessibility to start with.
Judy the one additional link that is pointed to in this agenda. Is also a separate the first one is labeled two, saying that in our document we shouldn't be commenting that the review page shouldn't …
//Andrew Arch comes in//
I would suggest we go for an hour and half. So again looking at the latest exchange between Phil Jenkins and myself, we should say in the AU document speak for itself. We felt we had to provide some heads up, because it is not necessarily complete or updated. A little disclaimer would be the best. Are people in agreement with that?
Audrey I agree that you are going to have more and more angry and disgruntled people.
Harvey these are an older version.
Judy I think the AU dates their reviews.
Harvey add version and platform to that list.
Shawn if you just look at the list, reflect the date.
Judy the second point is the latest exchange, Phil Jenkins, Move the seven ATAGs moved out of the document, he says that we make that part of the checklist. Too cruel to someone who has to use.
Audrey, I agree some people haven't been privy to our tortured discussions.
Andrew have to realize that no one reading the document is privey to the tortured discussion.
Judy this is a killer introduction, too long. Is there anything about addressing the concern. If we look at the document with a fresh perspective. How to get rid of half the introduction.
Sara, removing the ATAG business. So that people know what we are talking about. Without having the ATAG defined, I would remove.
Andrew I think we need to leave the ATAG there, Someone to read the ATAG guidelines just a brief summary needs to be there.
Sara I wonder if they even need to know that.
Judy I would maintain that people need this orientation. Looking that wording, don't need the techniques document, maybe another pass at the intro, and cut out half the wording.
Sara I do like the list very much.
David I think you need to keep the list, gives an orientation. What is an authoring tool.
Audrey cliff notes on authoring tools.
Judy we agree and chop down the intro by fifty percent, and keep the list of guidelines.
Audrey a draft notice doesn't belong there.
Judy AU said we shouldn't have that there for any reason. The idea is to get that out. To get feedback from AU for the most part they like the document. Take the intro draft note, after all changes from 11th February and 13Th are done. Check new examples. Do on the list. Something else that Phil had said. One page and three columns. Three column layout. Do we know what he means?
Andrew I read the comment I couldn't understand about three columns.
Helle wasn't he thinking about the checklist.
Audrey he was also talking about getting it all on one page.
Andrew we could reduce to five pixels.
Judy He is saying a generic comment to keep scrolling down, need more graphics.
Audrey I wonder if quite understood that, people would just land here, and not know, I wonder I wouldn't care about…
Judy we are trying to get this out for review. This would provide more context. That would defer the breakup comment.
Sara that is really about the layout and design of the page. To change the layout , I don't think we should worry about that in terms of the comments he made.
Judy anyone else comment about the ATAG icons. That group hasn't not agreed to which icons to use.
Harvey I found the huge number icons on those pages.
Sara you can't go wrong with clean design.
Audrey we were going to make it look clean later on.
Sara we aren't going to use this document in a checklist. I wouldn't print this out, not the whole story, I don't see this way.
David a fact sheet about the trip.
Judy people don't make this a check list.
Sara could you call it procedures.
Andrew considerations.
David considerations fits in like keeping in the back of the mind.
Judy we are getting clearer about this. Reading back, the EO maintains that we need a heads up on the status document, date reviews and platform, chop down the intro by fifty percent, keep the guidelines, take out the draft, ask for clarification about the three columns, give more context about a page in a suite, de-emphasize …
Shawn …Authoring tools selection and considerations,
Judy what is the matter for considerations, two shons in a row. Authoring tools. …I think we are done with Selecting Authoring tools for today.
Helle I have comment about dating the ATAG under consideration. Two pages, under AU in table form, and then they have dates with ATAG conformance, our link goes to another…
Judy could you send the two different links?
Helle can't now.
Judy anything else? Sara has sent the new implimentation page. A quick question. Schedule and agenda item. Get that over with. Several people have approached me lately to have discussions about developing certification programs for web site review. Various certifications for people making web sites. Some people are slapping tags on sites, some cases some are saying that they are using the principles, have a discussions about an approval cycle. Pretty much right now this is in varius European countries. Two days in Caannes so far. Registration is low. We have an agenda, not a large turnout, on Thursday working on …best practices super set of issues, and Friday a round table. Invite in someone QA …do people like that idea of adding that into the agenda. People here going?
Helle hasn't Natasha signed up?
Judy I thought I saw her on the list.
Helle I linked up to a page that all the people registered. Looked for yesterday.
Judy thank you for letting me know. People ok with adding that to Friday. Andrew send the registratin list to me? All 258 registered. Not normal procedure.
Andrew and enormous people registered.
Judy Yikes! On the document that Sara sent, the question I wanted to ask you, you said you removed hover, is anybody this with hover. Links are jumping.
Sara reload the page,
Judy have a persistent hover there.
Sara I could fill with a code, and make it not jump.
Judy I thought I made a fix on one page.
Sara also you have the underline turned off for the hover.
Judy otherwise you are just using a pale hover cover that people won't see.
Sara, I am not getting the hover. I am not sure what is happening. IE and opera. And you roll over and you getting jumping.
Judy you have it right in the code.
Sara, I thought I commented it out... will recheck.
Judy your comment out marking accurate? Other things to look and comment on? Thanks, done for the day. Meet again the 22nd.
Last revised 14 February, 2002 by Judy Brewer