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<interaccess> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 05 September 2017
I can do it
<scribe> scribe: Detlev
<alastairc> I can do the 26th.
AWK: Introductons to new people: Brooks & Roy
Roy: new staff at W3C in China
Brooks: Introduced himself last
week
... Joined Thomson Reuters
AWK: CfC device sensors still
going for 49 mins
... Deadline extended due to public holidays - so far one
objection
... went through prior CfC and was rejected - now attempt to
find new consensus, revisit it soon
... concern in editors' note that there is concern about
scope
<AWK> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/device-sensors_ISSUE-67/guidelines/sc/21/device-sensors.html
steverep: Does not count his response as objection - more a question
AWK: great
... Be clear in your response to CfC - object using -1 and
explain why - make it unambiguous
... after this CfC we will be assembling last PWD prior to
TPAC
... will be looking at additional feedback
... Michael, any sense of time frame?
MichaelC: should be next week - main blocker after closing CfCs is preparing wider message - draft should go out within next week, or less
AWK: questions?
<JF> +1
<KimD> +1 attending
<david-macdonald> +1
<Glenda> +1
<MichaelC> +1
<alastairc> +1
<Roy> +1
<shadi> +1
AWK: If you are going to TPAC put in a +1
<Brooks_Newton> +1
<Greg> -1
<bruce_bailey> tpac: +1
-1
<Makoto> +1
<Joshue108> -1
<allanj> -1
<laura> 0
<JakeAbma> -1
<Alex> +1 but only first 2 days
<Mike_Pluke> +1
<jasonjgw> +1
<Mike_Pluke> Mpluke -1
<MelanieP> -1
<AWK> +1
AWK: 15+ people definitely
attending
... people can also attend remotely (but that is
challenging)
<Mike_Elledge> -1
AWK: By that time we should have
comments at hand and more clarity what needs to be discussed /
changed
... working through comments and issues with SCs, Techniques
etc - agenda not yet fixed
... does the group have any particular expectations what should
be done?
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/
MichaelC: If you intend to go please register at the TPAC page
AWK: Get a hotel room if you haven't got one yet
David: Would like mergers or associating new SCs with existing ones
AWK: so you want to figure out which of the new SCs are candidates tfor mergers, form strategy?
David: yes
<MichaelC> AG WG TPAC meeting page
AWK: Big issue to address with WCAG 2.1 - [what is modified / merged and what are new SC]
David: third possibility:
changing requirements without reducing requirements of 2.0
(?)
... We should discuss whether we can change existing SCs
without changing the requirements of WCAG 2.0 SCs
AWK: Some things might be straightforward - e.g. set new contrast criteria (hypothetical example)
David: another example: focus visible with a requirement for the amount of contrast
AWK: more comments?
... Nov 6 and 7 will be days for WG meetings
... Recommends staying around longer, other interesting
stuff
AWK: outstanding comments 188
open issues - often comments about first PWD - have looked at
many of them already, many have been overcome by events.
... some didn't making into the PWD, deferred to 2.2
... in other cases, changes to SC text have removed the cause
for comment
... how shall we handle that in an initial 'scrub' - would like
not doing an individual CfC for each one of them
... for others that remain we will have a more formal comment
process
... are people OK with that?
<Glenda> +1 to initial scrub on non-controversial done by leads handling directly :)
+1
<laura> +1
<allanj> +1
<david-macdonald> +1
<marcjohlic> +1
<Greg> +1
<Mike_Elledge> +1
<JakeAbma> +1
steverep: some of the comments on a couple of SCs like hover/focus do no longer match - shall we ask them to rephrase comment?
AWK: When nature of comment does
not apply anymore due to changes we can reply "thanks for
comment, things have changed, your concern has been handled or
no longer applies", then point to latest version and close
comment
... It will be helpful to start afresh - close it and point to
new version
... question?
... intention is to go through comments, have a set that will
be retained, requires research for defining responses
... then also addressing Understanding docs
<Glenda> zakim make minutes
<Zakim> steverep, you wanted to ask how we want to handle public comments on SC that have changed significantly
AWK: people should look at the
tracking sheet - has the set of accepted 2.1 SCs for next
PWD
... has conformance level, links to edit and view understanding
comment, and cells for TF reviews
... you can indicate in column " People working on this (use
GitHub user name if possible)" when you want to work on one of
them
<david-macdonald> What's the status on "Undo"
AWK: some people are more
familiar with writing Understanding stuff rather than
Techniques
... Regarding Undo, decision was made on WF call that no
consensus was reached
... Talk to you TF facilitators when you want to be involved -
in some cases content from Github has be broufght over
already
Kathy: Do we need to work on the new guideline 2.5.X as well?
AWK: There is understanding content on the Guideline level
MichaelC: confirms that
AWK: Will be high level - will
set up branches for that
... there is also Understanding text for conformance
requirements
<Glenda> RSAgent, make logs public
MichaelC: Hasn't set up branch because it was unclear whether new guideline would be kept
Kathy; That applies to esp. 2.7 Speech
Michael: Hesitant to set up new branches before decision has been made
<Greg> Sorry, must leave early.
AWK: Guideline 2.7 doubts - the SC names (like Accessible name) have changed, it no longer exclusively fits under speech
Kathy: explains shift of SC focus, could fit elsewhere
AWK: assumption is that we need a CfC to move SC "Accesssible name" out of... to somewhere else
<david-macdonald> 2.7.1
AWK: could be put under Principle 4 Operable together with name role value
<david-macdonald> +1
AWK: there may be reasons to put
it somewhere else as well - we need to find consensus
... any other questions?
gowerm: Happy to be told where to put in effort
AWK: First pass is being done by the task forces - initial draft of Understanding text was part of the initial SC proposal - in some cases it is still close, in others it is wildly off because SC text changed substantially - so the task forces should go through SCs and check if Understanding text is still appropriate
alastairc: How are we going to tackle version control - if one works on th etext, should someone else create a fork wit ha merge request or how else should we work?
AWK: would prepare creation of a
fork that could be merged (or not)
... someone else might work differently (email comms)
<alastairc> So basically: contact the person assigned and sort out with them...?
AWK: Up to individuals to work
out best way to co-operate
... once things get back from TFs all work will be done in
github
... COGA will do work in google docs
MichaelC: People working on particuar branch decide how to do it - if you create a new branch name it clearl y(your name in it) and delete it if it is no longer needed
AWK: question?
<steverep> 30 minutes to fix device sensors? :)
AWK: agenda is covered - any other business you want to discuss?
David: decide about device
sensors?
... only objection has been qualified (i.e. it is no
objection)
AWK: looks like SC Device sensors
would be passing without objections - one min left
... we can talk about it - but may not be the best use of time
right now
<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/67#issuecomment-325716721
David: would prefer to work out with the language (see link above)
AWK: no friendly amendments right now - some responses lukewarm, but will go through as accepted
David: thinks amended language is cleare and will create less pushback
<steverep> +1 to David, obviously
AWK: concern that Steve's, Mark's, Jason's are also ou there - we do not have the basis for a new unified proposal
David: We can reach out to them to find a consensual version
MichaelC: process remark: Change to wording will require new consenus process which would take some days which delays publication and review process - the point of the next two months is to do the tweaking - recommends to go with current consensus, then clean up after publication
Jason: Don't delay publication
for changes - we need a process to collect and address
comments
... very complex, will keep us busy til Candidate
Recommendation
MichaelC: Hope to have more suggestions next Tuesday
AWK: any other items?
:)
<Mike_Elledge> bye all!
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152 of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/AWC:/AWK:/ Succeeded: s/Hole/Hope/ WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: AWK, KimD, JakeAbma, Joshue108, JF, shawn, shadi, MichaelC, MikeGower, Laura, Detlev, Mike_Pluke, Makoto, Melanie_Philipp, Katie_Haritos-Shea, marcjohlic, Kathy) Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Present+ AWK Present: AWK KimD steverep allanj Brooks_Newton Detlev shadi jasonjgw JakeAbma Laura alastairc Glenda Mike Elledge JF Roy Mike_Pluke Greg_Lowney Melanie_Philipp Joshue108 bruce-bailey david-macdonald MikeGower jon_avila Kathy Regrets: Chris_Loiselle Denis_Boudreau Pietro_Cirrincione Found Scribe: Detlev Inferring ScribeNick: Detlev Found Date: 05 Sep 2017 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/09/05-ag-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]