IRC log of dap on 2017-04-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/04/20-dap-irc
13:53:54 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
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Zakim, this will be DAP
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ok, trackbot
13:53:57 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device and Sensors Working Group Teleconference
13:53:57 [trackbot]
Date: 20 April 2017
13:54:10 [fjh]
fjh has changed the topic to: das agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0018.html
13:54:17 [fjh]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0018.html
13:54:43 [fjh]
Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
13:54:48 [fjh]
Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
13:57:01 [shalamov]
Present+ Alexander_Shalamov
13:57:16 [shalamov]
Regrets+ Mikhail_Pozdnyakov
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14:01:09 [anssik]
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14:03:01 [tobie]
Present+ Tobie_Langel
14:03:08 [anssik]
Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:05:21 [tobie]
Scribenick: tobie
14:05:29 [wanming]
Present+ Wanming_Lin
14:05:37 [fjh]
Topic: Welcome, scribe selection, agenda review, announcements
14:05:46 [fjh]
New WDs published for Accelerometer, Gyroscope, Magnetometer , https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0017.html
14:05:59 [wanming]
hi anssi :)
14:06:00 [fjh]
TPAC F2F planning, please respond before 1 May, https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0014.html
14:06:42 [tobie]
anssik: there might be overlaps, but that's the best effort.
14:07:03 [tobie]
anssik: if we find funding could fjh travel?
14:07:27 [tobie]
fjh: that would really help.
14:07:45 [fjh]
github week 1 : https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0019.html
14:08:10 [fjh]
github week 2: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0020.html
14:08:52 [fjh]
s/help./help, however still need to understand if I can go/
14:10:23 [fjh]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0021.html
14:11:05 [fjh]
tobie: suggests F2F in Europe outside of TPAC
14:13:04 [fjh]
action: fjh discuss F2F alternatives/approach with dom
14:13:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-793 - Discuss f2f alternatives/approach with dom [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2017-04-27].
14:13:33 [dom]
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14:13:42 [fjh]
Topic: Minutes approval
14:13:51 [fjh]
Approve minutes from 6 April 2017
14:13:51 [fjh]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/att-0013/minutes-2017-04-06.html
14:13:58 [fjh]
proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 6 April 2017 are approved
14:14:05 [tobie]
RESOLUTION: Minutes from 6 April 2017 are approved
14:14:16 [fjh]
Topic: FPWD of Orientation Sensor specification and FPWD of Motion Explainer Note
14:14:36 [fjh]
CfC completed successfully https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0022.html
14:14:43 [dom]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:15:01 [fjh]
action: fjh to send transition request for Orientation Sensor specification and FPWD of Motion Explainer Note
14:15:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-794 - Send transition request for orientation sensor specification and fpwd of motion explainer note [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2017-04-27].
14:22:30 [fjh]
Topic: HTML Media Capture update
14:22:53 [fjh]
CR transition request sent and approved, sent publication request.
14:22:54 [tobie]
fjh: transition request sent and approved
14:23:27 [fjh]
Topic: Screen Orientation API
14:23:49 [tobie]
shalamov: was busy with other things. Will do next week
14:24:26 [tobie]
fjh: suggests fwd the message to the group
14:24:43 [tobie]
dom: request was for GH issue
14:25:01 [tobie]
fjh: suggests responding on the list first so the group is aware
14:25:23 [tobie]
shalamov: what mailing list?
14:25:34 [tobie]
dom: public-webapps@
14:25:48 [tobie]
Topic: Generic Sensor API
14:25:50 [fjh]
Topic: Generic Sensor API
14:26:05 [tobie]
fjh: github summary is super useful. Thanks dom et al.
14:26:56 [tobie]
fjh: permissions are hard
14:28:35 [fjh]
tobie: great that implementers are getting involved with permissions and security work
14:28:49 [fjh]
… have some stuff available in different places
14:29:19 [fjh]
… new threats keep emerging
14:29:36 [fjh]
… want to first write a paper and discuss and use as basis for moving forward
14:29:53 [fjh]
… do not have shared understanding of goals, use cases and risks
14:30:32 [fjh]
… material is in various issues, which is why need to pull together; lost original draft
14:31:05 [fjh]
… discussions on new threats, issues, mechanisms, implementer notes
14:31:46 [fjh]
… re high level versus low level and security - put tighter permissions on low level APIs
14:32:32 [fjh]
… thus provide incentive for higher level APIs, e.g. fewer user prompts etc
14:33:40 [fjh]
… fingerprinting , eavesdropping using sensors etc - so many threats and many unexpected. Hard to explain to non-experts
14:34:24 [fjh]
s/permissions are hard/two questions - concern about security risks with low level APIs , though you make good argument in email; and permsissions approach/
14:35:07 [fjh]
… some sensor use cases need low level access, others might not (e.g. ambient light).
14:35:16 [fjh]
… different sensors have different use cases, threats and issues
14:35:32 [fjh]
… just starting, need to create shared goals
14:35:58 [fjh]
anssik: tobie will have F2F time with Lucaz next week
14:36:03 [fjh]
tobie: yes, good
14:36:14 [fjh]
s./Lucaz/Lucasz/
14:36:26 [fjh]
s/Lucaz/Lucasz/
14:36:59 [dom]
+1 on "permission prompt" being a bad approach
14:37:09 [anssik]
+1
14:37:10 [fjh]
tobie:promiting for permissions is bad
14:37:17 [dom]
(but that's distinct from binding sensors to a permission system à la Permission API)
14:37:29 [fjh]
right, just train users to say yes to prompts
14:37:46 [fjh]
s/tobie:promiting/tobie: prompting/
14:39:06 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:39:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/20-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:39:46 [fjh]
tobie: would like more conversations with Google implementers working on security
14:39:51 [fjh]
… on this topic
14:39:58 [fjh]
do we need a workshop>
14:40:03 [fjh]
s/>/?/
14:40:22 [fjh]
@dom does this sound like a W3C workshop?
14:41:41 [fjh]
tobie: mistake to assume magic number for security, like sensor frequency of 60Hz, need to understand use cases
14:42:08 [dom]
q+
14:42:33 [fjh]
ack dom
14:42:57 [fjh]
fjh: propose workshop of security and permissions on sensors - focus might be good, ratther than generic F2F
14:43:07 [fjh]
dom: had a F2F similar to this in Paris
14:43:27 [fjh]
dom: in 2015>
14:43:31 [fjh]
s/>/?/
14:43:55 [fjh]
fjh: might be worth doing again, first look at what the result of the earlier workshop was
14:43:58 [anssik]
https://www.w3.org/2014/07/permissions/
14:44:31 [fjh]
dom: new workshop on new threats, new lessons, new work
14:44:35 [fjh]
+1
14:44:49 [fjh]
https://www.w3.org/2014/privacyws/
14:44:56 [dom]
https://www.w3.org/2014/07/permissions/minutes.html
14:45:19 [fjh]
tobie: lacking work now on permissions API, not a priority
14:45:22 [fjh]
… concern
14:45:37 [fjh]
fjh: can make permsissions a priority if we get interest and agreement on goals at workshop
14:45:51 [fjh]
s/permsissions/permissions/
14:46:18 [fjh]
tobie: issues arise, e.g. revocation of permissions, policy; there is a whole ecosystem of work to consider
14:47:16 [fjh]
action: fjh to review outcome of W3C Workshop on trust and permissions for web applications
14:47:16 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-795 - Review outcome of w3c workshop on trust and permissions for web applications [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2017-04-27].
14:47:51 [fjh]
dom: rough agreement on this?
14:48:55 [tobie]
dom: I'll start conversation internally
14:49:04 [fjh]
fjh: think useful to consider this as part of the conversation of whether to have a F2F
14:51:46 [fjh]
dom: need to answer the question as to why another workshop and what is new
14:52:27 [dom]
ACTION: Dom to look at potential for a permissions-oriented w3c meeting/workshop
14:52:28 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-796 - Look at potential for a permissions-oriented w3c meeting/workshop [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2017-04-27].
14:53:29 [fjh]
action: tobie to provide a list of important questions and concerns that need answers - for which a workshop might help
14:53:30 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-797 - Provide a list of important questions and concerns that need answers - for which a workshop might help [on Tobie Langel - due 2017-04-27].
14:56:02 [anssik]
https://w3c.github.io/permissions/
14:56:19 [fjh]
Topic: Wake Lock
14:56:19 [anssik]
https://github.com/w3c/permissions
14:56:44 [tobie]
fjh: wakelock API had an issue with secure context
14:57:02 [tobie]
dom: spec was re-written based on TAG feedback
14:57:14 [tobie]
dom: TAG was happy with proposed changes
14:57:44 [tobie]
dom: I saw old issue with secure context which needed to be revisited
14:58:17 [tobie]
fjh: seems like an issue we could easily fix
14:58:30 [tobie]
fjh: should we ping Andrej?
14:58:53 [tobie]
fjh: we'll just leave it in the minutes
14:59:08 [tobie]
Ajourn
14:59:37 [fjh]
Topic: Other Business
14:59:39 [fjh]
none
14:59:44 [fjh]
Topic: Adjourn
14:59:47 [fjh]
Thanks everyone
14:59:49 [wanming]
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14:59:52 [fjh]
good call
15:00:20 [fjh]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
15:00:26 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:00:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/20-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:00:48 [fjh]
s/hi anssi :)//
15:01:18 [fjh]
s/github week/github weekly summary/g
15:01:48 [fjh]
Note we discussed F2F issues with Dom on call so no need for follow up action
15:02:11 [fjh]
ACTIONB-793: discussed during teleconference
15:02:23 [fjh]
ACTION-793: discussed during teleconference
15:02:23 [trackbot]
Notes added to ACTION-793 Discuss f2f alternatives/approach with dom.
15:02:30 [fjh]
s/ACTIONB-793: discussed during teleconference//
15:02:40 [fjh]
close ACTION-793
15:02:40 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-793.
15:03:27 [fjh]
s/transition request sent and approved/transition request sent and approved; I also sent publication request/
15:03:52 [fjh]
s/suggests responding on the list first so the group is aware/suggests responding on the list first so the group is aware, noting that issues will be entered into GH/
15:04:26 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:04:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/20-dap-minutes.html fjh
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