IRC log of poe on 2017-03-27
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/03/27-poe-irc
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- RRSAgent, make logs public
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- Zakim, this will be
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- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
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- Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
- 12:25:19 [trackbot]
- Date: 27 March 2017
- 12:25:25 [phila]
- regrets+ Simon, Caroline, Brian
- 12:25:29 [phila]
- Chair: Ben
- 12:25:34 [phila]
- agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170327
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- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 12:27:49 [michaelS]
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- present+
- 12:28:19 [ivan]
- present+
- 12:28:32 [Serena]
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- 12:28:45 [renato]
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- 12:31:58 [benws110]
- nick benws
- 12:32:05 [benws110]
- present+
- 12:32:15 [victor]
- victor has joined #poe
- 12:32:18 [victor]
- hi all
- 12:32:30 [renato]
- hi victor
- 12:32:37 [renato]
- present+
- 12:32:55 [victor]
- present+
- 12:33:30 [benws]
- present+
- 12:33:36 [Sabrina]
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- present+
- 12:34:08 [michaelS]
- scribe michaelS
- 12:34:18 [phila]
- scribe: michaelS
- 12:34:22 [phila]
- scribeNick: michaelS
- 12:34:31 [phila]
- Topic: Last week's minutes
- 12:34:36 [michaelS]
- benws: anybody want to raise an issue with last week's minutes
- 12:34:36 [phila]
- [NOTUC]
- 12:34:50 [phila]
- -> https://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-poe-minutes.html Last week's minutes
- 12:34:54 [michaelS]
- resolution: last week's minutes approved
- 12:34:55 [renato]
- https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Use_Cases#POE.UC.37_Representing_regulations_using_ODRL
- 12:35:06 [phila]
- RESOLUTION: last week's minutes approved
- 12:35:15 [michaelS]
- topic: New Use Case
- 12:35:18 [phila]
- present+ Sabrina, phila
- 12:35:21 [Sabrina]
- present+ Sabrina
- 12:35:50 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: introduced the Use Case
- 12:36:28 [michaelS]
- ... it models the EU General Data Protection Regulation
- 12:36:57 [michaelS]
- ... it needs to cover that at a generic level but also in details
- 12:37:15 [michaelS]
- ... Article 12 added as an example
- 12:37:44 [michaelS]
- ... this article shows the important use of references to other articles
- 12:38:10 [benws]
- q?
- 12:38:10 [michaelS]
- ... the numbering of the articles has at least two levels
- 12:38:31 [michaelS]
- benws: any comments on that so far?
- 12:38:31 [phila]
- q+
- 12:38:35 [smyles]
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- 12:39:04 [smyles]
- present+
- 12:39:07 [michaelS]
- benws: does this requirement belong to a profile or to the general ODRL model?
- 12:39:21 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: this is a decision by this group
- 12:39:40 [benws]
- q?
- 12:40:05 [michaelS]
- renato: what does "refer to another article" mean?
- 12:40:37 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: that are dependencies - look at Article 12. This may transform to many duties.
- 12:41:17 [michaelS]
- ... to check if Article 12 is fullfilled the fulfillment of other articles is required
- 12:41:19 [benws]
- q?
- 12:42:04 [michaelS]
- phila: GDPR is very important it would be a big PR win if ODRL could show that it can cover it.
- 12:42:29 [michaelS]
- ... key question: is ODRL is a good tool for that purpose. Sabrina do you feel that?
- 12:42:46 [renato]
- q+
- 12:42:51 [benws]
- q+
- 12:42:55 [phila]
- ack me
- 12:42:58 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: ODRL is not a bad fish. We need to specify obligations and constraints
- 12:43:21 [renato]
- s/fish/fit/
- 12:43:30 [michaelS]
- ... There is work on taxonomies by other parties but less fitting.
- 12:44:13 [michaelS]
- renato: we could promote this as a profile. This would serve to explain how to create a profile
- 12:44:22 [ivan]
- q+
- 12:44:39 [michaelS]
- ... and this profile could be shown to a wide audience.
- 12:44:45 [ivan]
- ack renato
- 12:45:16 [michaelS]
- ... the relationships between the constraints and duties is demandingö
- 12:45:23 [ivan]
- q-
- 12:46:01 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: we have dependencies between the duties, we have constraints on duties, actions and parties
- 12:46:14 [michaelS]
- ... supported to create a profile for that.
- 12:47:49 [benws]
- q?
- 12:47:49 [michaelS]
- benws: to show that we could express regulations and licences by the same language would be fine
- 12:48:08 [michaelS]
- phil
- 12:48:21 [michaelS]
- phila: supported using ODRL for this purpose
- 12:49:22 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: we are basically defining obligiations = duties = complying with the regulations
- 12:50:07 [michaelS]
- ... if we run into problems we will come back to this group
- 12:50:36 [michaelS]
- ... when it comes to constraints: there are discrational ones
- 12:50:57 [smyles]
- q+
- 12:51:07 [phila]
- ack s
- 12:51:12 [phila]
- ack b
- 12:51:15 [michaelS]
- s/discrational/discretational
- 12:52:32 [michaelS]
- smyles: suggested to model optional constraints as permissions
- 12:52:54 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: that's not exactly the intention of the GDPR
- 12:53:31 [michaelS]
- ... there are statements like a recommendation - and we don't want to omit them
- 12:53:56 [renato]
- q+
- 12:54:20 [phila]
- ack r
- 12:54:55 [michaelS]
- renato: is thinking what this could look like in code: leftOperand say you may or may not use an icon
- 12:55:37 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: need for a discretional constraint: it would be good to meet this constraint but it doesn't stop the policy
- 12:55:42 [smyles]
- q+
- 12:55:59 [michaelS]
- ... if it is not met
- 12:56:39 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: for her and Simon some constraints a bit fuzzy, needs deeper reviews
- 12:56:39 [phila]
- ack s
- 12:57:06 [phila]
- q+
- 12:57:08 [michaelS]
- smyles: we may add a concept of recommendation = if you can, you should do that
- 12:57:32 [benws]
- q?
- 12:57:33 [michaelS]
- ... there could be levels of recommendation: strongly recommended ... and more
- 12:57:49 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: will review this suggestion
- 12:57:54 [renato]
- https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119
- 12:57:57 [phila]
- The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL
- 12:57:57 [phila]
- NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and
- 12:57:57 [phila]
- "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in
- 12:57:57 [phila]
- RFC 2119.
- 12:58:16 [benws]
- q?
- 12:58:21 [michaelS]
- phila: RFC2119 is a standard specifying things like that - could help
- 12:58:23 [phila]
- ack me
- 12:59:01 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: Dispensation = something is required, but there is a dispensation under specific condiditions.
- 12:59:50 [michaelS]
- ... and some articles say "you are not allowed" others say "unless party X allows that"
- 13:00:00 [victor]
- Dispensation: a : an exemption from a law or from an impediment, vow, or oath may be granted a dispensation from the rule b : a formal authorization requested a dispensation to form another lodge
- 13:00:09 [michaelS]
- ... in fact: an exception on an exception
- 13:00:28 [michaelS]
- ... may also be used
- 13:01:07 [benws]
- q?
- 13:02:05 [michaelS]
- renato: went over some more details of transforming DGPR into ODRL
- 13:02:16 [victor]
- q+
- 13:03:05 [michaelS]
- victor: thinks like that can be expressed by ODRL.
- 13:04:05 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: we are looking not only at GDPR but also legal regulations in general - this the existing ODRL data model work for us
- 13:04:28 [michaelS]
- s/this/is
- 13:04:38 [benws]
- q?
- 13:04:38 [michaelS]
- benws: what are "features"
- 13:04:50 [benws]
- ack v
- 13:05:18 [michaelS]
- victor: we could think about synonyms for hardwired constraints
- 13:05:34 [victor]
- q-
- 13:07:01 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: two more things: "Feature" = article 12 has various obligations, some are well defined, some don't stand on their own.
- 13:07:19 [michaelS]
- ... we are looking at conjunctions and disjunctions in this context
- 13:07:41 [benws]
- q?
- 13:07:43 [michaelS]
- ... transparency is the conjunction of all of them - we call them Features at the moment
- 13:08:41 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: we need additional constraints on the asset - they will span across multiple duties
- 13:09:18 [michaelS]
- renato: ODRL scope could work
- 13:09:25 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: agreed
- 13:10:04 [smyles]
- q+
- 13:10:23 [michaelS]
- ... we have an issue with the type of processing - e.g. how personal data may be used for marketing
- 13:12:00 [michaelS]
- smyles: the purpose is to define the nature of a party - right?
- 13:12:22 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: yes, depending on who you are rules may apply
- 13:13:02 [michaelS]
- smyles: why not to split up in constraints for group A and group B of persons
- 13:13:03 [phila]
- ack s
- 13:13:12 [benws]
- q+
- 13:13:32 [michaelS]
- smyles: wondered if inheritance could be used
- 13:14:32 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: the controllers for different purposes are different
- 13:14:33 [renato]
- q+
- 13:14:47 [michaelS]
- ... we look at what's there and then will come back to this group
- 13:15:11 [michaelS]
- ... the Wiki space could be used for discussions
- 13:15:16 [michaelS]
- benws: timeline?
- 13:15:43 [benws]
- q?
- 13:16:04 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: there are different groups of work: e.g. transforming the article and the sub-points - but that's not very usable.
- 13:16:34 [michaelS]
- ... in a next step obligations have to be pulled out of the articles - and that's a big work, will take months.
- 13:16:50 [michaelS]
- benws: does this timeline align with the ODRL timeline?
- 13:16:54 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: yes.
- 13:16:56 [benws]
- ack be
- 13:16:58 [phila]
- ack r
- 13:17:01 [benws]
- ack r
- 13:17:07 [michaelS]
- renato: do we need a new policy type "regulation"?
- 13:17:09 [michaelS]
- Sabrina: yes
- 13:17:55 [michaelS]
- benws: supported to use Wikipages for working on the transformation
- 13:18:02 [phila]
- Topic: Deliverables
- 13:18:03 [michaelS]
- Topic: Deliverables
- 13:18:12 [renato]
- https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Deliverables
- 13:18:15 [phila]
- s/Topic: Deliverables//
- 13:18:43 [michaelS]
- renato: went over https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Deliverables
- 13:19:14 [renato]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poe-comments/2017Mar/0012.html
- 13:19:43 [benws]
- q?
- 13:19:44 [michaelS]
- ... we got a reply from EDRLabs
- 13:20:05 [renato]
- https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/118
- 13:20:14 [michaelS]
- ... raised some concerns regarding periods
- 13:20:43 [michaelS]
- ... this needs an update of the definitions of date/time and period constraints
- 13:20:56 [michaelS]
- renato: re Horizontal reviews:
- 13:21:05 [michaelS]
- ... any news from Brian?
- 13:21:12 [michaelS]
- benws: has sent a reminder
- 13:21:13 [benws]
- q?
- 13:21:42 [michaelS]
- renato: reviews seem to be on track
- 13:22:17 [michaelS]
- benws: refered to a proposoal of Victor to hold a special meeting
- 13:22:49 [michaelS]
- ... = a call
- 13:23:23 [benws]
- q?
- 13:23:24 [michaelS]
- benws: asked Victor to launch a Doodgle survey for finding date and time
- 13:23:39 [phila]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
- 13:23:39 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/27-poe-minutes.html phila
- 13:24:00 [michaelS]
- Topic: best practices
- 13:24:30 [benws]
- q?
- 13:24:33 [michaelS]
- benws: tried to reach out to James from Catapult, but the email did not work
- 13:24:50 [michaelS]
- Topic: open Actions
- 13:24:59 [michaelS]
- benws: only 3 on the issue tracker
- 13:25:02 [phila]
- s/RESOLVED: last week's minutes approved//
- 13:25:20 [phila]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
- 13:25:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/27-poe-minutes.html phila
- 13:25:33 [renato]
- https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/114
- 13:25:58 [michaelS]
- Topic: London F2F
- 13:26:03 [phila]
- s/RESOLUTION: last week's minutes approved//
- 13:26:13 [phila]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
- 13:26:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/27-poe-minutes.html phila
- 13:26:59 [michaelS]
- benws: open issue is providing hotel rooms at TR rates - but Sabrina may have an alternative
- 13:27:37 [michaelS]
- victor: would appreciate to have times for the agenda items
- 13:27:53 [michaelS]
- bens: starting time 10am - ok?
- 13:28:10 [ivan]
- q+
- 13:28:46 [michaelS]
- renato: agenda will be based on requests from group members and currently ongoing work
- 13:29:05 [ivan]
- will there be possibiltiies for dial in?
- 13:29:16 [michaelS]
- benws: suggested 5:30pm as closing time
- 13:29:19 [ivan]
- thanks
- 13:29:26 [michaelS]
- benws: it will be possible to dial in too
- 13:29:41 [michaelS]
- benws: AOB?
- 13:29:41 [benws]
- q?
- 13:29:47 [benws]
- ack i
- 13:30:00 [michaelS]
- benws: none was raised - bye
- 13:30:01 [phila]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 13:30:01 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/27-poe-minutes.html phila
- 13:30:07 [Serena]
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- 13:30:23 [phila]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
- 13:30:23 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/27-poe-minutes.html phila
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