IRC log of alreq on 2016-11-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:07:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #alreq
16:07:42 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-irc
16:08:51 [Shervin]
Shervin has changed the topic to: ALReq Weekly Meeting, 22 November 2016
16:09:09 [Shervin]
present+
16:09:16 [Shervin]
zakim, who is here?
16:09:16 [Zakim]
Present: Shervin
16:09:18 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Shervin, najib, r12a, trackbot
16:09:37 [Shervin]
present+ najib
16:09:41 [Shervin]
present+ r12a
16:09:46 [Shervin]
ScribeNick: Shervin
16:10:04 [r12a]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016OctDec/0022.html
16:10:13 [r12a]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016OctDec/0023.html
16:10:24 [najib]
https://github.com/w3c/alreq/wiki/Arabic-numerals-%28Draft%29
16:10:40 [r12a]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016OctDec/0018.html
16:10:47 [najib]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues/2
16:11:30 [Shervin]
Shervin: Starting from Najib draft on numeral...
16:13:43 [r12a]
"even though some fonts may not distinguish between the changing glyph"
16:15:23 [r12a]
shervin: shouldn't call this out, since it's just a broken font
16:15:33 [r12a]
... all persian fonts have both sets of numbers
16:16:25 [r12a]
r12a: "western" should be "european" to conform to Unicode terminology and that chosen by us way back
16:19:35 [r12a]
hebrew: 1 + 1 = 2
16:19:46 [r12a]
arabic: 2 = 1 + 1
16:20:31 [r12a]
he: 10 - 12 items
16:20:44 [r12a]
arabic: items 12 - 10
16:21:03 [r12a]
he: items 10 - 12
16:21:20 [r12a]
s/he: 10 - 12 items/
16:21:27 [r12a]
s/he: 10 - 12 items//
16:26:06 [r12a]
shervin: use 'north-west Africa' rather than 'Magreb', since the sphere we're talking about is wider
16:27:05 [r12a]
... wrt percent sign, i think if arabic-indic are used percent sign is 066A
16:27:21 [r12a]
... and you shouldn't mix with 0025
16:28:35 [r12a]
... we need to look at authoritative sources to determine which is the 'right' way to do things here
16:29:41 [r12a]
... should there be spaces? should the percent sign appear on either side ?
16:30:04 [r12a]
najib: i looked at bank reports and official government law books from Morocco
16:30:42 [r12a]
shervin: be careful, since some reports are generated by software - textbooks from an established publisher or schoolbooks are a much better measure
16:30:58 [r12a]
... since people creating that text ensure that it is correct
16:32:12 [r12a]
najib: i'm documenting what i see, rather than what's correct
16:32:16 [r12a]
shervin: ... what's in use is not necessarily correct - first we need to look at notable sources
16:33:33 [r12a]
... we can always call it out that common people do things differently
16:33:45 [r12a]
shervin: why no mention of arabic thousands separator
16:34:07 [Shervin]
http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=%D9%AB&B1=Show
16:34:40 [Shervin]
http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=066C
16:34:52 [r12a]
shervin: or the arabic decimal separator
16:38:26 [r12a]
shervin: it's a good start - it points to areas of contention - some things need to be shortened - eg. if you use the correct thousands separator it solves confusion
16:39:58 [r12a]
... thanks for the effort
16:40:12 [r12a]
najib: please comment on the wiki, and add suggestions/corrections
16:40:37 [r12a]
... too early for PR, stay with wiki for onw
16:40:42 [r12a]
s/onw/now/
16:40:49 [Shervin]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016OctDec/0022.html
16:43:23 [Shervin]
r12a: Three issue; 1. Underline thickness, 2. Skipping ink when it runs into descender, 3. How determine the position of the underline relative to the character
16:43:24 [najib]
https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86
16:44:20 [Shervin]
r12a: 4. What happens with underline with mixed-script text?
16:45:54 [r12a]
shervin: first impression is that whenever underline happens (mostly in manuscripts, which use underline as wanted) there's always a separation between the lowest descender and the line
16:46:07 [r12a]
... unless space was a premium - ie no skip needed
16:46:18 [r12a]
... i think leaving to the font may be a good idea
16:47:30 [r12a]
... i can provide examples
16:48:51 [r12a]
... historical use case of underline is very very limited
16:51:08 [r12a]
ACTION: Shervin to provide some historical examples for underline
16:51:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-71 - Provide some historical examples for underline [on Shervin Afshar - due 2016-11-29].
16:51:30 [r12a]
najib: i think underline is a western concept
16:51:47 [r12a]
shervin: certainly it is, but i've seen it around in historical documents
16:52:09 [r12a]
najib: i didn't find underlines in any official texts i looked at
16:52:39 [najib]
s/find/find much/
16:52:49 [r12a]
https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86
16:53:02 [r12a]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/459
16:54:46 [r12a]
shervin: let's leave nastaliq out of this, because it makes things very complicated
16:55:28 [r12a]
r12a: look at the last example at https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-261528811 and think about how that relates to baseline
16:57:21 [r12a]
shervin: Najib could you please add the names of the fonts here
16:57:34 [r12a]
ACTION: Najib to provide names of fonts at https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-261528811
16:57:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-72 - Provide names of fonts at https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-261528811 [on Najib Tounsi - due 2016-11-29].
17:00:31 [Shervin]
ACTION: Shervin Test other fonts for the underline
17:00:31 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-73 - Test other fonts for the underline [on Shervin Afshar - due 2016-11-29].
17:01:12 [Shervin]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016OctDec/0023.html
17:01:22 [Shervin]
http://w3c.github.io/typography/checklist
17:02:18 [r12a]
http://w3c.github.io/typography/checklist#text_decoration
17:03:39 [r12a]
http://w3c.github.io/typography/index#text_decoration
17:10:03 [Shervin]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/137j59fPt1nkl0h6O72SR50SX3MHk0lWzmqcEaAmo1zM/edit#gid=0
17:12:01 [Shervin]
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jep/3336451.0013.105?view=text;rgn=main
17:12:06 [r12a]
Justify Just or Just Justify link is now protected
17:12:43 [Shervin]
http://dx.doi.org/10.3998/3336451.0013.105
17:26:19 [Shervin]
zakim, please leave
17:26:19 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Shervin, najib, r12a
17:26:19 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #alreq
17:26:24 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:26:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html r12a
17:26:47 [r12a]
rrsagent, make log public
17:27:17 [najib]
najib has left #alreq