IRC log of dap on 2016-11-17
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:55:13 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-dap-irc
- 14:55:15 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 14:55:15 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #dap
- 14:55:17 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be DAP
- 14:55:17 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot
- 14:55:18 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Device and Sensors Working Group Teleconference
- 14:55:18 [trackbot]
- Date: 17 November 2016
- 14:55:27 [dom]
- Chair: FJH
- 14:55:43 [dom]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Nov/0018.html
- 14:55:49 [dom]
- Regrets: Anssi
- 14:56:10 [fjh]
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- trackbot, start telecon
- 14:56:50 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 14:56:53 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be DAP
- 14:56:53 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Device and Sensors Working Group Teleconference
- 14:56:53 [trackbot]
- Date: 17 November 2016
- 14:56:53 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot
- 14:57:20 [fjh]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Nov/0018.html
- 14:57:30 [fjh]
- fjh has changed the topic to: das agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Nov/0018.html
- 14:57:45 [fjh]
- Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
- 14:57:52 [fjh]
- Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
- 14:58:05 [fjh]
- Regrets+ Anssi_Kostiainen
- 14:58:17 [fjh]
- Topic: Welcome, scribe selection, agenda review, announcements
- 15:00:52 [tobie]
- Present+ Tobie_Langel
- 15:07:16 [wanming]
- Present+ Wanming_Lin
- 15:09:16 [fjh]
- Anssi regrets through new year
- 15:09:55 [fjh]
- Topic: Battery
- 15:10:12 [fjh]
- dom: only on critical path for Battery, also awaiting decision from Chromium whether to retain, also need to know about Microsoft implementation
- 15:10:20 [fjh]
- scribeNick: fjh
- 15:10:50 [fjh]
- Topic: Wakelock
- 15:14:31 [fjh]
- dom: Andrei has action to update based on TAG and github comments - major revision to address concerns about attribute on doc object
- 15:14:54 [fjh]
- dom: may also change to be applicable not only to screens but also to system resources
- 15:15:06 [fjh]
- fjh: that sounds like a useful increase of scope
- 15:15:19 [fjh]
- Topic: Coordination activities
- 15:15:51 [fjh]
- dom: Geolocation working group needs to decide whether and when to start v2, likely plan is to wait for other sensor work first
- 15:16:21 [fjh]
- dom: also during TPAC there was interest from the Web Bluetooth Community Group (including NFC) to bring work to DAS
- 15:17:00 [fjh]
- dom: to do so will require re-chartering, but with the new process that limites review to new deliverables
- 15:17:00 [dom]
- s/including/and also possible Web/
- 15:17:13 [fjh]
- s/limites/limits/
- 15:17:27 [fjh]
- Topic: Minutes Approval
- 15:17:35 [fjh]
- Approve minutes from 6 October 2016
- 15:17:36 [fjh]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Oct/att-0004/minutes-2016-10-06.html
- 15:17:36 [fjh]
- proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 6 October 2016 are approved
- 15:17:43 [fjh]
- RESOLUTION: Minutes from 6 October 2016 are approved
- 15:17:58 [fjh]
- Topic: Generic Sensor
- 15:18:26 [tobie]
- https://github.com/w3c/sensors/milestone/2
- 15:18:36 [fjh]
- tobie: triaged issues left on generic sensor API for level 1 release
- 15:18:58 [fjh]
- … tagged and ordered
- 15:19:06 [fjh]
- … many privacy and security related (about 1/2)
- 15:19:21 [fjh]
- … some refactoring of API, talked with Intel implementers
- 15:19:57 [fjh]
- … need to rethink core principles in spec
- 15:20:11 [fjh]
- … leading to better design
- 15:20:46 [fjh]
- … fingerprinting issue will require a decision
- 15:21:30 [fjh]
- fjh: which core principles
- 15:22:02 [fjh]
- tobie: for current sensors two requirements - 1 for small set of sensors for motion, set polling frequency, control data received
- 15:22:34 [fjh]
- … for other sensors, only new requirement beyond existing specs, on change sensors, don’t get data until data changes despite initial request
- 15:22:55 [fjh]
- … so have frequency based, or implementation dependent for others
- 15:23:34 [fjh]
- … feedback for implementers to provide frequencies in both cases, but need to figure out how to present to developers
- 15:23:45 [fjh]
- fjh: use long frequency
- 15:24:09 [fjh]
- tobie: not so simple, don't get at requested frequency if OS considers no change in data
- 15:24:40 [fjh]
- … can request a frequency but can get lower frequency, how often data changes is tied to how accurate sensor is
- 15:24:45 [fjh]
- … makes sense
- 15:25:13 [fjh]
- … e.g. light sensor that distinguishes light and day versus sensitive sensor
- 15:25:36 [fjh]
- … not a problem if data provided whether or not data has changed, but becomes a problem for platforms where it is an issue
- 15:25:48 [fjh]
- … so is this important, how to surface to developers
- 15:28:29 [fjh]
- … need to clarify for developers the relationship of the API to the underlying platform
- 15:29:05 [fjh]
- … extent of issue is not clear
- 15:29:46 [fjh]
- … gaming experience is to run test to see if it works to know what to do
- 15:30:29 [fjh]
- … not clear that there is a problem or not
- 15:30:48 [fjh]
- … will work on modeling this week and next to make sense of it, then will go there
- 15:31:04 [fjh]
- fjh: that sounds useful
- 15:31:16 [fjh]
- tobie: we have questions about whether we have requirements that only work on some platforms
- 15:32:28 [fjh]
- … quality of implementation versus hard requirement for frequency
- 15:32:34 [fjh]
- fjh: graceful degradation
- 15:32:52 [fjh]
- tobie: not sensible for virtual reality if person is vomiting
- 15:32:53 [tobie]
- https://github.com/w3c/sensors/issues/145
- 15:32:54 [fjh]
- fjh: true
- 15:33:04 [fjh]
- permissions
- 15:33:34 [fjh]
- tobie: have 28 issues
- 15:33:43 [fjh]
- … 6 issues need research
- 15:33:54 [fjh]
- s/need/need further/
- 15:34:04 [fjh]
- … 11 privacy or security related issues
- 15:34:13 [fjh]
- … rest are part of refactoring or small chanbges
- 15:34:25 [fjh]
- s/chanbges/changes/
- 15:34:49 [fjh]
- … closing small issues while also working on bigger issues
- 15:35:05 [fjh]
- Topic: Generic Sensor Permission Issue 145
- 15:35:12 [fjh]
- https://github.com/w3c/sensors/issues/145
- 15:35:41 [fjh]
- tobie: do we ask for permission before checking whether a sensor exists or not
- 15:36:02 [fjh]
- … problem if have 15 sensors on device - finger printing issue
- 15:37:15 [fjh]
- fjh: maybe ask higher level question, e.g. if need 5 sensors ask only one question
- 15:37:18 [fjh]
- tobie: right
- 15:38:09 [fjh]
- … different question - developer wants to use 5 sensors, ask for permisison to use gyroscope, vs asking if gyroscope is available
- 15:38:25 [fjh]
- … risks include fingerprinting, knowing whether expensive device etc
- 15:40:41 [fjh]
- tobie: need to think this issue through
- 15:41:32 [fjh]
- fjh: next steps beyond your work
- 15:41:54 [fjh]
- tobie: would like input on github. Will have to make decisions, but we need more data to make good decisions.
- 15:43:02 [fjh]
- ,,, may want to give some implementer choice in spec - write as most useful to developers, add caveats for fingerprinting and security risks, allow implementers to make privacy/security aware choices
- 15:43:22 [fjh]
- s/,,,//
- 15:43:30 [fjh]
- s/ may/… may/
- 15:43:51 [fjh]
- fjh: seems good approach, get implementer experience
- 15:43:56 [fjh]
- tobie: also TAG review
- 15:44:03 [fjh]
- … need usability
- 15:45:03 [fjh]
- tobie: getting close, have implementations
- 15:45:31 [fjh]
- Topic: Upcoming calls
- 15:45:40 [fjh]
- Next call 1 Dec, then 15 Dec
- 15:45:53 [fjh]
- Topic: Other Business
- 15:45:54 [fjh]
- none
- 15:45:58 [fjh]
- Topic: Adjourn
- 15:46:04 [fjh]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:46:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-dap-minutes.html fjh
- 15:46:56 [fjh]
- Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
- 15:47:00 [fjh]
- Regrets- Anssi
- 15:47:06 [fjh]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:47:06 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-dap-minutes.html fjh
- 15:48:13 [fjh]
- S/Chair: FJH/Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
- 15:48:23 [fjh]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:48:23 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-dap-minutes.html fjh
- 15:48:47 [fjh]
- s/trackbot, start telecon//
- 15:49:14 [fjh]
- s/also to system resources/also to system resources; discussed on last call/
- 15:49:54 [fjh]
- s/ use long frequency/ use long frequency for case where single value needed?/
- 15:50:26 [fjh]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:50:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-dap-minutes.html fjh
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