IRC log of wot on 2016-08-03
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 12:02:57 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wot
- 12:02:57 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/03-wot-irc
- 12:05:02 [jhund]
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- 12:07:16 [sebastian]
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- 12:07:42 [mkovatsc]
- https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_27_July_2016
- 12:08:04 [sebastian]
- presents+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
- 12:08:07 [victor]
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- 12:08:22 [katsu]
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- 12:08:24 [jhund]
- present+ Johannes_Hund
- 12:08:41 [dape]
- present+ Daniel_Peintner
- 12:09:50 [mkovatsc]
- present+ Matthias_Kovatsch
- 12:10:08 [victor]
- present+ Victor_Charpenay
- 12:10:19 [yingying_]
- present+ Yingying_Chen
- 12:11:15 [MIchael]
- MIchael has joined #wot
- 12:11:17 [kaz]
- [ Kaz, Michael, Bowen, Daniel, Jim, Johannes, Katsuyoshi, Masato, Matthias, Takuki, Victor, Yingying ]
- 12:11:31 [kaz]
- scribe: Michael
- 12:11:34 [kaz]
- scribenick: MIchael
- 12:12:05 [mkovatsc]
- https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/
- 12:12:21 [MIchael]
- Plugfest doc for review
- 12:12:29 [kaz]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_27_July_2016
- 12:12:35 [mkovatsc]
- q?
- 12:12:55 [MIchael]
- Jim presents SCXML
- 12:13:20 [kaz]
- -> https://www.w3.org/TR/scxml/ SCXML Recommendation
- 12:13:28 [MIchael]
- Designed as a control language based on Harrel State Charts
- 12:13:37 [kaz]
- i/Jim presents/topic: SCXML/
- 12:14:17 [kaz]
- i|WoT/IG/|topic: Blog post for Beijing f2f|
- 12:14:29 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 12:14:33 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:14:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/03-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 12:14:56 [MIchael]
- Look as sec 3.1 of the spec for a high level overview
- 12:15:15 [JimBarnett]
- https://libraries.io/github/tklab-tud/uscxml
- 12:15:32 [kaz]
- i|https|-> https://www.w3.org/TR/scxml/#CoreIntroduction Introduction section|
- 12:15:37 [JimBarnett]
- https://github.com/jbeard4/SCION
- 12:15:55 [MIchael]
- SCION is implemented in js
- 12:16:25 [kaz]
- i|libraries|jim: SCXML implementations:|
- 12:17:16 [MIchael]
- Johannes: could define device behavior using state machine language as executable code
- 12:17:42 [MIchael]
- What is the execution env?
- 12:18:20 [MIchael]
- Jim: use the invoke tag to execute, accepts events in and sends events out
- 12:18:41 [MIchael]
- Jim: being used for a wide range of applications
- 12:18:58 [MIchael]
- Sebastian? can execution be modified at runtime?
- 12:19:23 [MIchael]
- Jim: no, static analysis is used
- 12:19:27 [masato2]
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- 12:19:32 [kaz]
- q+
- 12:19:43 [MIchael]
- Jim: the data model may be conditionally loaded during execution
- 12:19:58 [MIchael]
- Also one state machine can start another at runtime
- 12:20:07 [mkovatsc]
- ack kaz
- 12:20:45 [MIchael]
- Kaz: One state machine can transfer execution to another at runtime
- 12:21:05 [mkovatsc]
- q+
- 12:21:07 [MIchael]
- KAz: like html page transition
- 12:21:52 [mkovatsc]
- q-
- 12:22:10 [MIchael]
- Jim: SCXML can embed scripting language to execute when enetering/leaving states
- 12:22:11 [dape]
- q+
- 12:22:15 [mkovatsc]
- q+
- 12:22:27 [mkovatsc]
- ack dape
- 12:22:53 [MIchael]
- Daniel: can we also embed data models?
- 12:23:21 [MIchael]
- Jim: Yes, any data model, any scripting language with general restricitions on the dat amodel
- 12:23:46 [MIchael]
- Matthias: what is the community of users? WHo uses and participates?
- 12:23:47 [kaz]
- s/dat amodel/data model/
- 12:23:56 [kaz]
- s/WHo/Who/
- 12:24:01 [mkovatsc]
- ack mk
- 12:24:07 [MIchael]
- Jim: the development is done, no developers are active in a community
- 12:24:09 [kaz]
- q+
- 12:24:30 [MIchael]
- Jim: used in physics,Audi for dashboard control modeling
- 12:24:42 [kaz]
- s/,Audi/, Audi/
- 12:24:51 [MIchael]
- Matthias: anything close to our use case?
- 12:25:24 [MIchael]
- Jim: there was one person using SCXML for an embedded use case
- 12:25:43 [kaz]
- s/KAz:/Kaz:/
- 12:25:55 [MIchael]
- Jim: try the mailing list, also there are workshops with EICS
- 12:26:09 [kaz]
- -> http://scxmlworkshop.de/eics2016/ SCXML workshop
- 12:26:10 [kaz]
- q
- 12:26:13 [kaz]
- q?
- 12:26:14 [MIchael]
- JIm: public proceedings form the workshops
- 12:26:23 [kaz]
- s/JIm:/Jim:/
- 12:26:48 [MIchael]
- Johannes: Are there commercial open source tools using SCXML?
- 12:27:16 [mkovatsc]
- ack kaz
- 12:27:19 [MIchael]
- Jim: there are some research tools, IBM was at one point interested for their UML tools
- 12:27:39 [kaz]
- -> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-scxml/ Apache Commons SCXML
- 12:27:52 [MIchael]
- Kaz: IBM contributed an SCXML implementation to Apache
- 12:29:05 [mkovatsc]
- q?
- 12:29:15 [MIchael]
- Kax: Audi and others using SCXML for automitive IVI
- 12:29:31 [MIchael]
- s/Kax/Kaz/
- 12:29:48 [kaz]
- maybe we might want to talk with Dirk Schnelle-Walka from Harman as well
- 12:29:56 [MIchael]
- Matthias: who is willing to do an evaluation for WoT?
- 12:30:40 [MIchael]
- Next on agenda: TPAC planning
- 12:31:02 [kaz]
- topic: TPAC
- 12:31:14 [MIchael]
- Matthias: need presentations and demo, won't have the normal plugfest
- 12:31:34 [kaz]
- i/Next/will continue discussion using email
- 12:31:49 [MIchael]
- Daniel prepared a slide
- 12:32:20 [MIchael]
- Overall idea is 2 flyers, one foe mgmt, one for developers
- 12:32:31 [MIchael]
- s/foe/for/
- 12:33:30 [MIchael]
- Daniel: could have 4 tables:
- 12:33:34 [MIchael]
- ThIng Description,
- 12:34:00 [MIchael]
- Scripting,
- 12:34:08 [kaz]
- s/ThIng/Thing/
- 12:34:13 [MIchael]
- Protocol bindings
- 12:34:32 [MIchael]
- and an integrated demo
- 12:34:49 [MIchael]
- with air conditioner, window covers, etc.
- 12:34:53 [kaz]
- q?
- 12:35:04 [MIchael]
- 5 minute demo
- 12:35:22 [MIchael]
- Daniel: is it sensible?
- 12:35:55 [MIchael]
- There will be a poster to explain the demo
- 12:36:10 [MIchael]
- and one person for each table
- 12:36:37 [MIchael]
- How big are the tables?
- 12:37:08 [kaz]
- s/4 tables (=4 demo booths with a table for each)/
- 12:37:18 [kaz]
- s/4 tables/4 tables (=4 demo booths with a table for each)/
- 12:37:29 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:37:29 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/03-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 12:37:49 [kaz]
- Meeting: WoT IG
- 12:37:52 [kaz]
- Chair: Matthias
- 12:38:54 [MIchael]
- Matthias: coordinate the presentations this time
- 12:39:28 [MIchael]
- Kaz: We may have the room for 1-2 more days
- 12:39:51 [MIchael]
- The demo is a breakout that everyone can join
- 12:40:17 [MIchael]
- Matthias: is there a chance to have a presentation to explain the demo to everyone interested?
- 12:40:20 [kaz]
- s/We may/We can have the demo room on Wednesday, and we may/
- 12:40:36 [kaz]
- s/may have/might be able to have/
- 12:41:05 [MIchael]
- Matthias: good opportunity to make people aware of our work
- 12:42:11 [MIchael]
- Kaz: there is another room available if we want to do a demo and presentation at the same time
- 12:42:46 [MIchael]
- Kaz: we might get 2 slots
- 12:43:26 [MIchael]
- Matthias: 2 hours in the afternoon for the demo, and if possible another slot in the morning for technical explanation
- 12:44:02 [MIchael]
- Can we have a promotional slot on tuesday, 5 minutes?
- 12:44:49 [MIchael]
- Matthias: won't have any technical additions, this is about improving and building on Beijing and making it more understandable
- 12:44:54 [mkovatsc]
- q?
- 12:45:04 [MIchael]
- Matthias: make sure everything is available
- 12:45:16 [MIchael]
- topic: deliverables
- 12:45:42 [kaz]
- i|deliverables|RESOLUTION: our requirements for TPAC: Wed. morning slot for demo pitch presentation, Wed. afternoon slot for actual demo; Tue. ac 5 min presentation on WoT work (and AC review)|
- 12:46:02 [MIchael]
- Releasing UCR and CP documents Beijing version
- 12:46:36 [mkovatsc]
- https://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices-beijing-2016.html
- 12:46:39 [MIchael]
- Matthias: need a resolution to release CP document with a disclaimer that it is a series of releases
- 12:47:07 [MIchael]
- Matthias: anyone opposed to releasing?
- 12:47:18 [kaz]
- [ fyi, we need to update the status section like: https://www.w3.org/TR/hnreq/#sotd ]
- 12:47:22 [MIchael]
- No objections, resolved to release CP document
- 12:47:48 [kaz]
- RESOLUTION: We'll publish the Current Practices document as an IG Note
- 12:47:53 [mkovatsc]
- http://w3c.github.io/wot/wot-ucr.html
- 12:48:07 [jhund]
- http://w3c.github.io/wot/wot-ucr.html
- 12:48:28 [MIchael]
- Matthias: fixed the abstract
- 12:48:42 [MIchael]
- Matthias: this will also be a living document
- 12:48:55 [MIchael]
- anyone opposed to releasing the UCR document?
- 12:49:14 [MIchael]
- no objections, resolved to release the UCR document
- 12:49:30 [kaz]
- RESOLUTION: We'll publish the Use Cases and Rquirements document as an IG Note
- 12:49:37 [kaz]
- q?
- 12:49:53 [kaz]
- q-
- 12:50:14 [MIchael]
- Architecture document?
- 12:50:21 [kaz]
- s/Rquirements/Requirements/
- 12:50:49 [MIchael]
- Matthias: is there anyone on the call to discuss the Arch document?
- 12:50:55 [mkovatsc]
- q?
- 12:50:57 [kaz]
- action: kaz to ask Kajimoto-san about his plan for the arch doc publication
- 12:50:58 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-72 - Ask kajimoto-san about his plan for the arch doc publication [on Kazuyuki Ashimura - due 2016-08-10].
- 12:52:07 [kaz]
- Matthias: regarding the Tech Landscape, need to check with Soumya
- 12:52:17 [MIchael]
- Ask for more input, this document is the foundation for the WG
- 12:52:30 [kaz]
- q+
- 12:53:47 [kaz]
- present+ Scott_Jenson
- 12:54:37 [kaz]
- q?
- 12:55:02 [mkovatsc]
- ack kaz
- 12:55:27 [MIchael]
- Kaz: need to clarify the starting and ending dates for the working group
- 12:55:47 [MIchael]
- Ending 2018, syncing with the end date of the IG
- 12:56:00 [mkovatsc]
- q?
- 12:56:05 [kaz]
- RESOLUTION: WG ending date is end of 2018
- 12:57:15 [kaz]
- topic: Discussion with Scott Jenson
- 12:57:21 [kaz]
- -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2016Jun/thread.html#msg59 Scott's posts
- 12:57:59 [kaz]
- q?
- 12:58:02 [kaz]
- q+ johannes
- 12:58:04 [kaz]
- ack j
- 12:59:04 [mkovatsc]
- q+
- 12:59:10 [MIchael]
- Scott: Common set of vocabulary for interoperability
- 12:59:22 [kaz]
- like CSS levels
- 12:59:42 [MIchael]
- Scott: start at level 1, then go to level 2
- 13:00:12 [MIchael]
- Scott: like standardizing on/off remote controls for entertainment gear
- 13:00:32 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:00:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/03-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:00:40 [MIchael]
- Matthias: we wanted to have semantic statements that describe a thing in RDF
- 13:01:02 [MIchael]
- Matthias: can also add extension statements
- 13:01:24 [MIchael]
- Matthias: avoid fixed classes or types, this is what ZigBee, etc are doing
- 13:01:39 [MIchael]
- We rather want to use a vocabulary to describe
- 13:02:02 [MIchael]
- Scott: very clost to what I said
- 13:02:10 [MIchael]
- s/clost/close/
- 13:02:59 [MIchael]
- Matthias: there is the minimum core, plus application specific vocabularies, do yo uhave any examples?
- 13:03:14 [MIchael]
- s/yo uhave/you have/
- 13:03:47 [MIchael]
- Scott: seems to be about a practical rather than philosophical if understood correctly
- 13:04:01 [kaz]
- present+ Sebastian
- 13:04:03 [MIchael]
- Scott, no examples though
- 13:04:28 [MIchael]
- Matthias: common "atomic" vocabulary like on/off may be defined by W3C
- 13:04:35 [kaz]
- s/Scott,/Scott:/
- 13:05:17 [MIchael]
- Matthias: what is the scope of what is being proposed?
- 13:06:08 [MIchael]
- Scott: want to make sure that the vocabulary can be extended, and there is enough of a base vocabulary defined about how state is controlled
- 13:06:24 [MIchael]
- Scott: how commands are structured, etc
- 13:07:23 [MIchael]
- Johannes: The question is whether we should stay horizontal or get into vertical areas to get more concrete examples?
- 13:08:31 [MIchael]
- Scott: no opinion about what W3C should do, using Homekit as an example which has enough defined to "just work" without being overly constrained
- 13:09:57 [MIchael]
- Scott: doesn't want to push this group one way or another
- 13:10:38 [MIchael]
- Scott: think we're on the same page
- 13:11:07 [MIchael]
- Matthias: work with other orgs already building vertical definitions, e.g. SAREF
- 13:11:30 [MIchael]
- Are you aware of others, Max Senges, schema.org?
- 13:11:42 [MIchael]
- Any liaison opportunites?
- 13:12:14 [MIchael]
- Scott: Max is working on schema.org, also working with Roy Want on IoTX
- 13:12:37 [MIchael]
- Matthias: What about the IAB workshop?
- 13:12:49 [MIchael]
- Scott: will put us in contact with Max
- 13:13:31 [kaz]
- s/IoTX/IoTx/
- 13:13:39 [MIchael]
- Matthias: any use cases for application specific vocabulary?
- 13:13:43 [mkovatsc]
- q?
- 13:13:47 [mkovatsc]
- ack mkovatsc
- 13:14:01 [MIchael]
- Scott: creating a form of RESTful interface for devices
- 13:14:16 [MIchael]
- Physical web is like a QR code, just transmits a URL
- 13:14:35 [MIchael]
- Scott: web bluetooth can connect the thing tothe web also
- 13:14:53 [MIchael]
- have creates toys, demos, pill bottle example
- 13:15:09 [MIchael]
- Scott: provides a RESTful interface to the device
- 13:15:38 [MIchael]
- Scott: at that level, not much concern for interoperability, just talk to the thing
- 13:15:56 [jhund]
- q+
- 13:16:10 [MIchael]
- step 2 is an intelligent controller to control a swarm of things, here is where interoperability will be needed
- 13:16:48 [MIchael]
- Scott: a network scan function is being developed for dealing with multiple devices
- 13:17:04 [mkovatsc]
- ack jhund
- 13:18:26 [MIchael]
- Johannes: Describes UI generation from Thing Description, could fit it to the URI beacons to reveal functionality of devices in an interoperable way
- 13:19:07 [MIchael]
- Scott: Physical web just deals with URIs
- 13:19:46 [MIchael]
- Scott device capabilities are not part of Physical Web to keep it flexible
- 13:19:59 [mkovatsc]
- q+
- 13:20:35 [MIchael]
- Matthias: Is there a defined representation? is it HTML returned or is it machine readable?
- 13:20:50 [MIchael]
- Scott: not defining the representation at all
- 13:21:21 [MIchael]
- Scott: not choosing but for now it just points to a web page
- 13:22:16 [MIchael]
- MAtthias: can you address BT devices using URIs?
- 13:22:28 [MIchael]
- s/MAtthias/Matthias/
- 13:22:43 [MIchael]
- Scott: using GATT
- 13:24:16 [MIchael]
- Physical Web is open, discussion on Github
- 13:25:40 [mkovatsc]
- q?
- 13:25:54 [mkovatsc]
- ack mkovatsc
- 13:26:04 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:26:10 [MIchael]
- Matthias: any other questions?
- 13:26:10 [mkovatsc]
- ack kaz
- 13:26:48 [MIchael]
- Kaz: would Scott be interested in participating?
- 13:27:46 [MIchael]
- Scott: should talk with Max about participation in WoT group
- 13:29:14 [MIchael]
- Matthias: reminder on AC review coming up, please talk with your AC rep
- 13:31:06 [MIchael]
- Scott: again, look at IoTX
- 13:32:39 [kaz]
- -> http://www.iotx.ae/ IoTx
- 13:32:54 [mkovatsc]
- Nope
- 13:32:59 [mkovatsc]
- that's some IoT expo
- 13:33:31 [kaz]
- s|-> http://www.iotx.ae/ IoTx||
- 13:35:18 [kaz]
- -> https://blog.nicholaskellett.com/2016/04/20/mits-iotx-internet-of-things-online-course-first-impressions/ ?
- 13:35:29 [MIchael]
- Michael will look into discussion with the Linux Foundation IoTX project
- 13:35:46 [yingying]
- yingying has joined #wot
- 13:35:59 [mkovatsc]
- q?
- 13:36:14 [MIchael]
- Kaz will contact MIT
- 13:36:31 [MIchael]
- Matthias will not make next 2 meetings, please drive via emal
- 13:36:35 [MIchael]
- Adjourned
- 13:37:33 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:37:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/03-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:37:54 [kaz]
- rrsagent, stop