IRC log of wot on 2016-08-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:02:57 [RRSAgent]
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12:02:57 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/03-wot-irc
12:05:02 [jhund]
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12:07:16 [sebastian]
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12:07:42 [mkovatsc]
https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_27_July_2016
12:08:04 [sebastian]
presents+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
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12:08:24 [jhund]
present+ Johannes_Hund
12:08:41 [dape]
present+ Daniel_Peintner
12:09:50 [mkovatsc]
present+ Matthias_Kovatsch
12:10:08 [victor]
present+ Victor_Charpenay
12:10:19 [yingying_]
present+ Yingying_Chen
12:11:15 [MIchael]
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12:11:17 [kaz]
[ Kaz, Michael, Bowen, Daniel, Jim, Johannes, Katsuyoshi, Masato, Matthias, Takuki, Victor, Yingying ]
12:11:31 [kaz]
scribe: Michael
12:11:34 [kaz]
scribenick: MIchael
12:12:05 [mkovatsc]
https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/
12:12:21 [MIchael]
Plugfest doc for review
12:12:29 [kaz]
Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_27_July_2016
12:12:35 [mkovatsc]
q?
12:12:55 [MIchael]
Jim presents SCXML
12:13:20 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/scxml/ SCXML Recommendation
12:13:28 [MIchael]
Designed as a control language based on Harrel State Charts
12:13:37 [kaz]
i/Jim presents/topic: SCXML/
12:14:17 [kaz]
i|WoT/IG/|topic: Blog post for Beijing f2f|
12:14:29 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
12:14:33 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:14:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/03-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:14:56 [MIchael]
Look as sec 3.1 of the spec for a high level overview
12:15:15 [JimBarnett]
https://libraries.io/github/tklab-tud/uscxml
12:15:32 [kaz]
i|https|-> https://www.w3.org/TR/scxml/#CoreIntroduction Introduction section|
12:15:37 [JimBarnett]
https://github.com/jbeard4/SCION
12:15:55 [MIchael]
SCION is implemented in js
12:16:25 [kaz]
i|libraries|jim: SCXML implementations:|
12:17:16 [MIchael]
Johannes: could define device behavior using state machine language as executable code
12:17:42 [MIchael]
What is the execution env?
12:18:20 [MIchael]
Jim: use the invoke tag to execute, accepts events in and sends events out
12:18:41 [MIchael]
Jim: being used for a wide range of applications
12:18:58 [MIchael]
Sebastian? can execution be modified at runtime?
12:19:23 [MIchael]
Jim: no, static analysis is used
12:19:27 [masato2]
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12:19:32 [kaz]
q+
12:19:43 [MIchael]
Jim: the data model may be conditionally loaded during execution
12:19:58 [MIchael]
Also one state machine can start another at runtime
12:20:07 [mkovatsc]
ack kaz
12:20:45 [MIchael]
Kaz: One state machine can transfer execution to another at runtime
12:21:05 [mkovatsc]
q+
12:21:07 [MIchael]
KAz: like html page transition
12:21:52 [mkovatsc]
q-
12:22:10 [MIchael]
Jim: SCXML can embed scripting language to execute when enetering/leaving states
12:22:11 [dape]
q+
12:22:15 [mkovatsc]
q+
12:22:27 [mkovatsc]
ack dape
12:22:53 [MIchael]
Daniel: can we also embed data models?
12:23:21 [MIchael]
Jim: Yes, any data model, any scripting language with general restricitions on the dat amodel
12:23:46 [MIchael]
Matthias: what is the community of users? WHo uses and participates?
12:23:47 [kaz]
s/dat amodel/data model/
12:23:56 [kaz]
s/WHo/Who/
12:24:01 [mkovatsc]
ack mk
12:24:07 [MIchael]
Jim: the development is done, no developers are active in a community
12:24:09 [kaz]
q+
12:24:30 [MIchael]
Jim: used in physics,Audi for dashboard control modeling
12:24:42 [kaz]
s/,Audi/, Audi/
12:24:51 [MIchael]
Matthias: anything close to our use case?
12:25:24 [MIchael]
Jim: there was one person using SCXML for an embedded use case
12:25:43 [kaz]
s/KAz:/Kaz:/
12:25:55 [MIchael]
Jim: try the mailing list, also there are workshops with EICS
12:26:09 [kaz]
-> http://scxmlworkshop.de/eics2016/ SCXML workshop
12:26:10 [kaz]
q
12:26:13 [kaz]
q?
12:26:14 [MIchael]
JIm: public proceedings form the workshops
12:26:23 [kaz]
s/JIm:/Jim:/
12:26:48 [MIchael]
Johannes: Are there commercial open source tools using SCXML?
12:27:16 [mkovatsc]
ack kaz
12:27:19 [MIchael]
Jim: there are some research tools, IBM was at one point interested for their UML tools
12:27:39 [kaz]
-> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-scxml/ Apache Commons SCXML
12:27:52 [MIchael]
Kaz: IBM contributed an SCXML implementation to Apache
12:29:05 [mkovatsc]
q?
12:29:15 [MIchael]
Kax: Audi and others using SCXML for automitive IVI
12:29:31 [MIchael]
s/Kax/Kaz/
12:29:48 [kaz]
maybe we might want to talk with Dirk Schnelle-Walka from Harman as well
12:29:56 [MIchael]
Matthias: who is willing to do an evaluation for WoT?
12:30:40 [MIchael]
Next on agenda: TPAC planning
12:31:02 [kaz]
topic: TPAC
12:31:14 [MIchael]
Matthias: need presentations and demo, won't have the normal plugfest
12:31:34 [kaz]
i/Next/will continue discussion using email
12:31:49 [MIchael]
Daniel prepared a slide
12:32:20 [MIchael]
Overall idea is 2 flyers, one foe mgmt, one for developers
12:32:31 [MIchael]
s/foe/for/
12:33:30 [MIchael]
Daniel: could have 4 tables:
12:33:34 [MIchael]
ThIng Description,
12:34:00 [MIchael]
Scripting,
12:34:08 [kaz]
s/ThIng/Thing/
12:34:13 [MIchael]
Protocol bindings
12:34:32 [MIchael]
and an integrated demo
12:34:49 [MIchael]
with air conditioner, window covers, etc.
12:34:53 [kaz]
q?
12:35:04 [MIchael]
5 minute demo
12:35:22 [MIchael]
Daniel: is it sensible?
12:35:55 [MIchael]
There will be a poster to explain the demo
12:36:10 [MIchael]
and one person for each table
12:36:37 [MIchael]
How big are the tables?
12:37:08 [kaz]
s/4 tables (=4 demo booths with a table for each)/
12:37:18 [kaz]
s/4 tables/4 tables (=4 demo booths with a table for each)/
12:37:29 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:37:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/03-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:37:49 [kaz]
Meeting: WoT IG
12:37:52 [kaz]
Chair: Matthias
12:38:54 [MIchael]
Matthias: coordinate the presentations this time
12:39:28 [MIchael]
Kaz: We may have the room for 1-2 more days
12:39:51 [MIchael]
The demo is a breakout that everyone can join
12:40:17 [MIchael]
Matthias: is there a chance to have a presentation to explain the demo to everyone interested?
12:40:20 [kaz]
s/We may/We can have the demo room on Wednesday, and we may/
12:40:36 [kaz]
s/may have/might be able to have/
12:41:05 [MIchael]
Matthias: good opportunity to make people aware of our work
12:42:11 [MIchael]
Kaz: there is another room available if we want to do a demo and presentation at the same time
12:42:46 [MIchael]
Kaz: we might get 2 slots
12:43:26 [MIchael]
Matthias: 2 hours in the afternoon for the demo, and if possible another slot in the morning for technical explanation
12:44:02 [MIchael]
Can we have a promotional slot on tuesday, 5 minutes?
12:44:49 [MIchael]
Matthias: won't have any technical additions, this is about improving and building on Beijing and making it more understandable
12:44:54 [mkovatsc]
q?
12:45:04 [MIchael]
Matthias: make sure everything is available
12:45:16 [MIchael]
topic: deliverables
12:45:42 [kaz]
i|deliverables|RESOLUTION: our requirements for TPAC: Wed. morning slot for demo pitch presentation, Wed. afternoon slot for actual demo; Tue. ac 5 min presentation on WoT work (and AC review)|
12:46:02 [MIchael]
Releasing UCR and CP documents Beijing version
12:46:36 [mkovatsc]
https://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices-beijing-2016.html
12:46:39 [MIchael]
Matthias: need a resolution to release CP document with a disclaimer that it is a series of releases
12:47:07 [MIchael]
Matthias: anyone opposed to releasing?
12:47:18 [kaz]
[ fyi, we need to update the status section like: https://www.w3.org/TR/hnreq/#sotd ]
12:47:22 [MIchael]
No objections, resolved to release CP document
12:47:48 [kaz]
RESOLUTION: We'll publish the Current Practices document as an IG Note
12:47:53 [mkovatsc]
http://w3c.github.io/wot/wot-ucr.html
12:48:07 [jhund]
http://w3c.github.io/wot/wot-ucr.html
12:48:28 [MIchael]
Matthias: fixed the abstract
12:48:42 [MIchael]
Matthias: this will also be a living document
12:48:55 [MIchael]
anyone opposed to releasing the UCR document?
12:49:14 [MIchael]
no objections, resolved to release the UCR document
12:49:30 [kaz]
RESOLUTION: We'll publish the Use Cases and Rquirements document as an IG Note
12:49:37 [kaz]
q?
12:49:53 [kaz]
q-
12:50:14 [MIchael]
Architecture document?
12:50:21 [kaz]
s/Rquirements/Requirements/
12:50:49 [MIchael]
Matthias: is there anyone on the call to discuss the Arch document?
12:50:55 [mkovatsc]
q?
12:50:57 [kaz]
action: kaz to ask Kajimoto-san about his plan for the arch doc publication
12:50:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-72 - Ask kajimoto-san about his plan for the arch doc publication [on Kazuyuki Ashimura - due 2016-08-10].
12:52:07 [kaz]
Matthias: regarding the Tech Landscape, need to check with Soumya
12:52:17 [MIchael]
Ask for more input, this document is the foundation for the WG
12:52:30 [kaz]
q+
12:53:47 [kaz]
present+ Scott_Jenson
12:54:37 [kaz]
q?
12:55:02 [mkovatsc]
ack kaz
12:55:27 [MIchael]
Kaz: need to clarify the starting and ending dates for the working group
12:55:47 [MIchael]
Ending 2018, syncing with the end date of the IG
12:56:00 [mkovatsc]
q?
12:56:05 [kaz]
RESOLUTION: WG ending date is end of 2018
12:57:15 [kaz]
topic: Discussion with Scott Jenson
12:57:21 [kaz]
-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2016Jun/thread.html#msg59 Scott's posts
12:57:59 [kaz]
q?
12:58:02 [kaz]
q+ johannes
12:58:04 [kaz]
ack j
12:59:04 [mkovatsc]
q+
12:59:10 [MIchael]
Scott: Common set of vocabulary for interoperability
12:59:22 [kaz]
like CSS levels
12:59:42 [MIchael]
Scott: start at level 1, then go to level 2
13:00:12 [MIchael]
Scott: like standardizing on/off remote controls for entertainment gear
13:00:32 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:00:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/03-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:00:40 [MIchael]
Matthias: we wanted to have semantic statements that describe a thing in RDF
13:01:02 [MIchael]
Matthias: can also add extension statements
13:01:24 [MIchael]
Matthias: avoid fixed classes or types, this is what ZigBee, etc are doing
13:01:39 [MIchael]
We rather want to use a vocabulary to describe
13:02:02 [MIchael]
Scott: very clost to what I said
13:02:10 [MIchael]
s/clost/close/
13:02:59 [MIchael]
Matthias: there is the minimum core, plus application specific vocabularies, do yo uhave any examples?
13:03:14 [MIchael]
s/yo uhave/you have/
13:03:47 [MIchael]
Scott: seems to be about a practical rather than philosophical if understood correctly
13:04:01 [kaz]
present+ Sebastian
13:04:03 [MIchael]
Scott, no examples though
13:04:28 [MIchael]
Matthias: common "atomic" vocabulary like on/off may be defined by W3C
13:04:35 [kaz]
s/Scott,/Scott:/
13:05:17 [MIchael]
Matthias: what is the scope of what is being proposed?
13:06:08 [MIchael]
Scott: want to make sure that the vocabulary can be extended, and there is enough of a base vocabulary defined about how state is controlled
13:06:24 [MIchael]
Scott: how commands are structured, etc
13:07:23 [MIchael]
Johannes: The question is whether we should stay horizontal or get into vertical areas to get more concrete examples?
13:08:31 [MIchael]
Scott: no opinion about what W3C should do, using Homekit as an example which has enough defined to "just work" without being overly constrained
13:09:57 [MIchael]
Scott: doesn't want to push this group one way or another
13:10:38 [MIchael]
Scott: think we're on the same page
13:11:07 [MIchael]
Matthias: work with other orgs already building vertical definitions, e.g. SAREF
13:11:30 [MIchael]
Are you aware of others, Max Senges, schema.org?
13:11:42 [MIchael]
Any liaison opportunites?
13:12:14 [MIchael]
Scott: Max is working on schema.org, also working with Roy Want on IoTX
13:12:37 [MIchael]
Matthias: What about the IAB workshop?
13:12:49 [MIchael]
Scott: will put us in contact with Max
13:13:31 [kaz]
s/IoTX/IoTx/
13:13:39 [MIchael]
Matthias: any use cases for application specific vocabulary?
13:13:43 [mkovatsc]
q?
13:13:47 [mkovatsc]
ack mkovatsc
13:14:01 [MIchael]
Scott: creating a form of RESTful interface for devices
13:14:16 [MIchael]
Physical web is like a QR code, just transmits a URL
13:14:35 [MIchael]
Scott: web bluetooth can connect the thing tothe web also
13:14:53 [MIchael]
have creates toys, demos, pill bottle example
13:15:09 [MIchael]
Scott: provides a RESTful interface to the device
13:15:38 [MIchael]
Scott: at that level, not much concern for interoperability, just talk to the thing
13:15:56 [jhund]
q+
13:16:10 [MIchael]
step 2 is an intelligent controller to control a swarm of things, here is where interoperability will be needed
13:16:48 [MIchael]
Scott: a network scan function is being developed for dealing with multiple devices
13:17:04 [mkovatsc]
ack jhund
13:18:26 [MIchael]
Johannes: Describes UI generation from Thing Description, could fit it to the URI beacons to reveal functionality of devices in an interoperable way
13:19:07 [MIchael]
Scott: Physical web just deals with URIs
13:19:46 [MIchael]
Scott device capabilities are not part of Physical Web to keep it flexible
13:19:59 [mkovatsc]
q+
13:20:35 [MIchael]
Matthias: Is there a defined representation? is it HTML returned or is it machine readable?
13:20:50 [MIchael]
Scott: not defining the representation at all
13:21:21 [MIchael]
Scott: not choosing but for now it just points to a web page
13:22:16 [MIchael]
MAtthias: can you address BT devices using URIs?
13:22:28 [MIchael]
s/MAtthias/Matthias/
13:22:43 [MIchael]
Scott: using GATT
13:24:16 [MIchael]
Physical Web is open, discussion on Github
13:25:40 [mkovatsc]
q?
13:25:54 [mkovatsc]
ack mkovatsc
13:26:04 [kaz]
q+
13:26:10 [MIchael]
Matthias: any other questions?
13:26:10 [mkovatsc]
ack kaz
13:26:48 [MIchael]
Kaz: would Scott be interested in participating?
13:27:46 [MIchael]
Scott: should talk with Max about participation in WoT group
13:29:14 [MIchael]
Matthias: reminder on AC review coming up, please talk with your AC rep
13:31:06 [MIchael]
Scott: again, look at IoTX
13:32:39 [kaz]
-> http://www.iotx.ae/ IoTx
13:32:54 [mkovatsc]
Nope
13:32:59 [mkovatsc]
that's some IoT expo
13:33:31 [kaz]
s|-> http://www.iotx.ae/ IoTx||
13:35:18 [kaz]
-> https://blog.nicholaskellett.com/2016/04/20/mits-iotx-internet-of-things-online-course-first-impressions/ ?
13:35:29 [MIchael]
Michael will look into discussion with the Linux Foundation IoTX project
13:35:46 [yingying]
yingying has joined #wot
13:35:59 [mkovatsc]
q?
13:36:14 [MIchael]
Kaz will contact MIT
13:36:31 [MIchael]
Matthias will not make next 2 meetings, please drive via emal
13:36:35 [MIchael]
Adjourned
13:37:33 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:37:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/03-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:37:54 [kaz]
rrsagent, stop