18:38:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:38:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/19-aapi-irc
18:38:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
18:38:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:38:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
18:38:44 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
18:38:45 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
18:38:45 <trackbot> Date: 19 April 2016
18:39:10 <clown> clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 641 707 405 (Next meeting 26-Apr-2016, 20:00 UTC)
18:40:37 <clown> agenda: this
18:40:46 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1737 (Joseph/Cynthia/Joanie) Confirm the UIA mappings for table/cell were pulled in correctly, and the AXAPI mappings.
18:40:54 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1718 (Cynthia) Review UIA mappings for aria-checked on radio buttons and menuitem radio buttons.
18:41:00 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-2032 (Cynthia) Review new UIA example for the AAPI explanatory text.
18:41:07 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-2043 (Joseph/Cynthia) Review UIA mapping of role="status".
18:41:15 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-2022/ACTION-1668 (All) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2.  Latest developments, including mapping of role="form".
18:41:20 <clown> agenda+ Triage actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23 (start with ACTION-1373)
18:41:30 <clown> agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
18:41:36 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
18:41:42 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
18:41:47 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:42:24 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:42:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/19-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:59:12 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
19:01:35 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:07 <joanie> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
19:03:13 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:03:37 <joanie> regrets+ Richard_Schwerdtfeger
19:03:45 <joanie> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:03:51 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:03:51 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-1737 (Joseph/Cynthia/Joanie) Confirm the UIA mappings for table/cell were pulled in correctly, and the AXAPI mappings." taken up [from clown]
19:04:03 <clown> action-1737?
19:04:03 <trackbot> action-1737 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Determine mappings for ARIA 1.1 table and cell role for all AAPI platforms. -- due 2015-11-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:04:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1737
19:04:16 <joanie> JS: I found a whole bunch of actions in tracker that were edits which had been made.
19:04:25 <joanie> JS: These just need one final review/look-at.
19:04:32 <joanie> JS: This one is table and cell roles.
19:04:38 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-cell
19:04:44 <joanie> JS: So for cell, the above URL has the content.
19:05:04 <joanie> JS: (Reads UIA)
19:05:11 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:05:16 <joanie> CS: That sounds right.
19:05:22 <joanie> JS: Joanie?
19:08:04 <joanie> JD: I think that's fine. Though I'm not 100% sure if we should also mention access via the Table interface.
19:08:10 <joanie> JS: And AXAPI?
19:08:39 <joanie> JD: If you remind me when I'm not scribing, I can look at the WebKit code and confirm if what you have jives with that implementation.
19:08:43 <joanie> JS: Please do so.
19:08:52 <joanie> JS: In the meantime, I'm closing this action.
19:09:01 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-table
19:09:10 <joanie> JS: If you (Joanie) have any changes/corrections, I can reopen it.
19:09:20 <joanie> JS: The other one is table (above URL)
19:09:34 <joanie> JS: (Reads UIA text from above URL)
19:09:39 <joanie> CS: That looks correct.
19:09:49 <joanie> JS: I'll ask Joanie to look at ATK/AT-SPI2.
19:10:42 <joanie> JD: The table mapping for my platform looks fine.
19:11:01 <joanie> JS: This covers the table interface here, and we assume cells are in tables, right?
19:11:18 <joanie> JS: Also, when you look at AXAPI for cell, please do so for table.
19:11:20 <joanie> JD: Ok.
19:11:38 <joanie> JS: I've already closed the action.
19:11:41 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:11:42 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1718 (Cynthia) Review UIA mappings for aria-checked on radio buttons and menuitem radio buttons." taken up [from clown]
19:11:52 <clown> action-1718?
19:11:52 <trackbot> action-1718 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Check that the UIA mappings for aria-checked are correct for radio buttons and menuitem radio buttons. -- due 2016-02-02 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:11:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1718
19:11:59 <joanie> JS: This action was done a while ago.
19:12:14 <joanie> JS: It's UIA mappings for aria-checked for radio buttons and menuitem radio buttons.
19:12:19 <joanie> JS: Cynthia provided me with text.
19:12:30 <joanie> JS: I brought it up to date around CSUN.
19:12:35 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-radio
19:12:42 <joanie> JS: The URL for the mappings is above.
19:12:52 <joanie> JS: The UIA content is a lot.
19:12:59 <joanie> JS: (Reads text from spec)
19:14:07 <joanie> CS: (Confirms text being read is correct)
19:14:16 <joanie> JS: This action is just dealing with UIA.
19:14:20 <joanie> JS: Can we close this?
19:14:22 <joanie> CS: Yes.
19:14:46 <joanie> CS: Bryan, this is a bug you reported a while ago.
19:14:53 <joanie> BG: Yay! :)
19:15:08 <joanie> JS: And it's a slightly different mapping from before and should be tested.
19:15:18 <joanie> BG: Progress is wonderful!
19:15:47 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:15:47 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-2032 (Cynthia) Review new UIA example for the AAPI explanatory text." taken up [from clown]
19:15:51 <clown> action-2032?
19:15:51 <trackbot> action-2032 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide a new example for the accessibility api explanatory text. -- due 2016-03-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:15:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2032
19:16:07 <joanie> JS: Another action related to Cynthia.
19:16:16 <joanie> CS: I'll be back in my office shortly.
19:16:30 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 5.
19:16:31 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-2022/ACTION-1668 (All) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2.  Latest developments, including mapping of role="form"." taken up [from clown]
19:16:36 <clown> action-2022?
19:16:36 <trackbot> action-2022 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Followup with alex about ia2 discussion re: adding a landmark role, similar to atk -- due 2016-02-23 -- OPEN
19:16:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2022
19:16:48 <joanie> JS: There was discussion last week and on the various mailing lists.
19:17:03 <joanie> JS: We decided to go the same route that ATK/AT-SPI2 does.
19:17:24 <joanie> JS: Namely, the role is LANDMARK, and an object attribute provides the actual landmark type/role.
19:17:33 <joanie> JS: I went through the entire mapping spec and made that switch.
19:17:36 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-complementary
19:17:46 <joanie> JS: For example, the URL above has complementary.
19:17:53 <joanie> JS: (Reads from spec)
19:18:02 <joanie> JS: We decided to do that last week.
19:18:18 <joanie> JS: In the meantime, there was some discussion between Rich, Freedom Scientific, and Alex.
19:18:28 <joanie> JS: Alex asked about role="form", which is a landmark.
19:18:38 <clown> IA2_ROLE_FORM
19:18:41 <joanie> JS: But in IA2 (and ATK), it has its own form.
19:18:53 <joanie> JS: And Alex's question is do we change that?
19:19:09 <joanie> JS: Rich's discussion with Freedom Scientific is that we change it.
19:19:14 <joanie> BG: That's fine with me.
19:19:21 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0138.html
19:19:31 <joanie> BG: With a regular form, you cannot jump to it now like you can with other landmarks.
19:19:41 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-form
19:19:46 <joanie> JS: The URL above is where Rich said we should change it.
19:20:01 <joanie> JS: The URL above has the mapping.
19:20:21 <joanie> JS: Do you want to change this in ATK to be interoperable?
19:20:39 <clown> scribenick:  clown
19:20:47 <joanie> CS: Are you sure you want to change this because it seems like a breaking change.
19:21:19 <clown> JD: short answer is that I don't care.
19:21:37 <clown> JD:  but, what does the community at large want?
19:22:03 <clown> JD:  If a form is a landmark, it should have ROLE_LANDMARK, and if form is not a landmark, it shouldn't.
19:22:16 <clown> JD:  Similarly for the HTML5 <form> element.
19:22:35 <clown> JD:  Long way of saying, do what everyone else does.
19:22:44 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:23:01 <joanie> JS: In terms of role="form", it's a subclass of landmark.
19:23:10 <joanie> JS: As far as ARIA is concerned.
19:23:28 <joanie> JS: I can check the HTML AAM to see what it says about the form element.
19:23:39 <joanie> JS: That AAM defers to us.
19:24:10 <joanie> JS: So I think the ATK mappings change in the same way the IA2 mappings change.
19:24:13 <joanie> JD: Fine with me.
19:24:27 <joanie> JD: I do have a comment about the HTML AAM.
19:24:37 <clown> scribenick: clown
19:24:50 <clown> JD:  Thinking out loud…
19:25:18 <clown> JD:  the aria role form is a landmark.
19:25:31 <clown> JD: the html form element is going to be a landmark
19:26:03 <clown> JD:  but should the HTML-AAM defer to us?
19:26:35 <clown> JD:  I would have to look at orca's code to see what it does.
19:27:15 <clown> JS:  FF always exposes the xml-roles property, and copies what's in the role="<value>"
19:27:41 <clown> JD:  I don't know if an HTML form element is exposing an xml-roles attribute.
19:28:25 <clown> JD:  that is going to change when gecko implements the new way of exposing landmarks.
19:29:10 <clown> JD:  The question is: is an HTML form element a landmark or not?
19:29:22 <clown> JD: If it isn't, then it shouldn't be mapped that way.
19:29:41 <clown> BG:  If there are multiple form elements on a page, it would be helpful to find them if they are landmarks.
19:29:58 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:30:08 <joanie> JS: What do you want me to do if anything?
19:31:35 <joanie> JS: Should I reply to Rich's email asking about HTML forms?
19:32:07 <joanie> JD: I think that what happens with respect to HTML forms is independent of how we map ARIA landmark forms.
19:32:33 <joanie> JD: However, I do think an email discussion on this matter would be good.
19:32:37 <joanie> BG: I could ask around.
19:32:48 <joanie> JS: Does the HTML A11y task force still meet?
19:32:53 <joanie> CS + JD: No.
19:33:00 <joanie> CS: But they work in github.
19:33:06 <joanie> JS: I'll open an issue there then.
19:33:10 <clown> https://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-form
19:33:30 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:33:31 <joanie> JS: Cynthia, above is the URL for form for UIA.
19:33:35 <clown> https://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-form
19:34:02 <joanie> CS: The UIA one looks fine for me.
19:34:15 <joanie> CS: Landmark isn't a role; it's a type.
19:34:28 <joanie> JS: Right, I don't think you're impacted by the decision related to forms.
19:34:32 <joanie> CS: Correct.
19:35:05 <joanie> JS: I will keep this action about IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK open until I get final confirmation from Alex.
19:35:14 <joanie> JS: But I think it's essentially finished.
19:35:39 <joanie> JS: And I'll raise an issue in github about HTML forms and whether or not they are landmarks.
19:35:55 <joanie> JS: And Bryan will ask the greater community on WebAim, etc.
19:36:00 <clown> agenda?
19:36:10 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 3
19:36:10 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-2032 (Cynthia) Review new UIA example for the AAPI explanatory text." taken up [from clown]
19:36:14 <clown> action-2032?
19:36:14 <trackbot> action-2032 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide a new example for the accessibility api explanatory text. -- due 2016-03-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:36:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2032
19:36:36 <joanie> JS: This is in the section about differences between the accessibility APIs on the platforms.
19:36:37 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1569-%282%29/core-aam/core-aam.html#uia
19:36:45 <joanie> JS: Cynthia, you wanted to change an example.
19:36:47 <cyns_> cyns_ has joined #aapi
19:36:57 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1569-%282%29/core-aam/core-aam.html#uia
19:36:59 <joanie> JS: It's currently got the treeitem example; it used to be a button, I think.
19:37:08 <joanie> JS: It's in the first paragraph.
19:37:15 <joanie> CS: That looks like the one I gave you.
19:37:28 <joanie> CS: There was some feedback that this was a complicated and confusing example.
19:37:39 <joanie> CS: Which it is, but the concept is complicated and confusing.
19:37:43 <joanie> CS: So I'm fine with it.
19:37:59 <joanie> CS: We might get feedback that we should have a different example.
19:38:04 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#uia
19:38:09 <joanie> CS: But I couldn't come up with a better one.
19:38:30 <joanie> JS: Correction, the previous URL was not correct. The one I just put in (above) is correct.
19:38:40 <joanie> CS: That's easier to read. It looks correct too.
19:39:06 <joanie> JS: I'm closing this action then.
19:39:19 <joanie> JS: There's still one more action on issue-540.
19:39:30 <joanie> JS: I will check with Jason about that action later this week.
19:39:37 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:39:37 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-2043 (Joseph/Cynthia) Review UIA mapping of role="status"." taken up [from clown]
19:39:43 <clown> action-2043?
19:39:43 <trackbot> action-2043 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify UIA mapping of role="status" -- due 2016-03-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:39:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2043
19:39:53 <joanie> JS: This is another one for which I did a pull, or otherwise took your content.
19:39:56 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-status
19:40:01 <joanie> JS: This is the UIA mapping for the status role.
19:40:05 <joanie> JS: The URL is above.
19:40:13 <joanie> CS: That looks fine.
19:40:24 <joanie> JS: It's different now from the other platforms.
19:41:25 <joanie> JD: If a role="status" element is nothing like a status bar, then it shouldn't be mapped to ROLE_STATUS_BAR.
19:41:49 <joanie> CS: I don't think it's like a status bar (e.g., it's not at the bottom of the window).
19:42:03 <joanie> JD: Since I'm scribing I cannot give it a ton of thought at this moment?
19:42:14 <joanie> JS: Do we want to change the mappings for IA2 and ATK?
19:42:23 <joanie> JS: And if we do, what would the mappings be?
19:42:36 <joanie> CS: Probably the same as I did, with a "polite" live setting.
19:42:52 <joanie> JS: Part of me wants to let sleeping dogs lie; part of me wants to figure this out.
19:43:14 <joanie> JD: Does it make sense to raise this topic as an email and/or action?
19:44:19 <joanie> action Joseph to begin discussion about whether or not the mappings for role="status" should be changed for IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI2
19:44:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2051 - Begin discussion about whether or not the mappings for role="status" should be changed for ia2 and atk/at-spi2 [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2016-04-26].
19:44:31 <joanie> JS: I think there's already a discussion on github about this.
19:45:13 <joanie> BG: I'm working on an email to the WebAim group now. And will provide the feedback I receive.
19:45:19 <joanie> JS: Do you want advice?
19:45:33 <joanie> BG: No thanks.
19:45:41 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:45:41 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-2022/ACTION-1668 (All) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2.  Latest developments, including mapping of role="form"." taken up [from clown]
19:45:52 <joanie> Zakim, close this item
19:45:52 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
19:45:53 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:45:53 <Zakim> 6. Triage actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23 (start with ACTION-1373) [from clown]
19:46:02 <clown> action-1375?
19:46:02 <trackbot> Sorry, but action-1375 does not exist.
19:46:06 <clown> action-1373?
19:46:06 <trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2016-03-29 -- OPEN
19:46:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1373
19:46:21 <joanie> JS: (Reads action-1373)
19:46:32 <joanie> CS: I haven't done any actions this week.
19:46:36 <joanie> CS: Leave them overdue.
19:46:53 <joanie> JS: There's a note in here that this should coincide with the 1.1 test case creation.
19:47:08 <joanie> CS: When is that date? Has the test creation begun?
19:47:18 <joanie> JS: The form to enter these things is up and running.
19:47:32 <joanie> JS: I know Rich had done some work on SVG.
19:49:36 <joanie> JS: I'll change the due date on action-1373 to May 19th.
19:50:06 <joanie> action-1409
19:50:06 <trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2016-04-07 -- OPEN
19:50:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1409
19:50:07 <clown> action-1409
19:50:07 <trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2016-04-07 -- OPEN
19:50:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1409
19:50:19 <joanie> JS: This is on Joanie.
19:50:32 <clown> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453
19:50:38 <joanie> JD: It's bubbling up (honest)
19:53:07 <joanie> JD: Don't change the due date.
19:53:27 <clown> action-1533?
19:53:27 <trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate and possibly create a minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests. -- due 2016-03-15 -- OPEN
19:53:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533
19:54:54 <joanie> JD: This is automated testing work. Don't change the due date.
19:55:03 <joanie> action-1593
19:55:03 <trackbot> action-1593 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compare implementations of AAPI managed states and look for gaps. -- due 2016-03-29 -- OPEN
19:55:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1593
19:55:18 <joanie> JS: (Reads the action)
19:55:26 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/706
19:55:29 <joanie> CS: Leave this one overdue.
19:55:41 <joanie> CS: I should do this soon.
19:56:00 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/980
19:56:25 <joanie> JS: David updated the action title.
19:56:29 <joanie> JS: In 2015.
19:56:45 <joanie> JS: I'll touch base with David as he may want to hand this one off to Alex.
19:57:08 <joanie> JS: Unless you want to take it over from here.
19:57:15 <joanie> CS: I probably can.
19:57:24 <joanie> JS: I'll assign action-980 to you then.
19:57:33 <joanie> CS: Set both due dates to two weeks from now.
19:57:48 <joanie> JS: May 3rd. Done.
19:59:25 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:59:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/19-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:00:44 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:00:44 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Cynthia_Shelly, Bryan_Garaventa
20:00:44 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:00:58 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
20:01:05 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop