IRC log of aapi on 2016-04-05
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 18:43:36 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aapi
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/05-aapi-irc
- 18:43:38 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 18:43:38 [Zakim]
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- 18:43:40 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 18:43:40 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 18:43:41 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
- 18:43:41 [trackbot]
- Date: 05 April 2016
- 18:43:53 [clown]
- chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 18:44:05 [clown]
- agenda: this
- 18:44:22 [clown]
- agenda+ ACTION-2008 (Cynthia/Joseph) Handle concept of description property for UIA - merged, final review.
- 18:44:31 [clown]
- agenda+ ACTION-1569/ACTION-2032/ISSUE-540 (Cynthia/Jason) Section on AAPI differences - merged, final review.
- 18:44:42 [clown]
- agenda+ ACTION-2012/ACTION-2013 (Joseph, Cynthia) UIA mappings for landmark roles, pull request merged: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272 — close?
- 18:44:58 [clown]
- agenda+ ACTION-2041 (Joseph/James/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for role="application", specifically change AXLandmarkApplication subrole.
- 18:45:05 [clown]
- agenda+ ACTION-1668 (Rich/Alex) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2.
- 18:45:15 [clown]
- agenda+ ACTION-1541 (Joseph/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal property -- update progress.
- 18:45:26 [clown]
- agenda+ Triage actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23 (start with ACTION-1373)
- 18:45:33 [clown]
- agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
- 18:45:42 [clown]
- agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
- 18:45:48 [clown]
- agenda+ Triage accname actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
- 18:45:55 [clown]
- agenda+ be done.
- 18:48:02 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/05-aapi-minutes.html clown
- 18:54:55 [clown]
- clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 641 707 405 (Next meeting 12-Apr-2016, 20:00 UTC)
- 18:57:37 [Rich]
- Rich has joined #aapi
- 19:00:05 [joanie]
- present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
- 19:00:15 [joanie]
- regrets+ Cynthia_Shelly
- 19:00:18 [Rich]
- present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
- 19:00:50 [joanie]
- scribe: joanie
- 19:01:36 [clown]
- present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 19:01:40 [clown]
- http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/TextInputPassword.html
- 19:02:49 [bgaraventa1979]
- bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
- 19:03:11 [bgaraventa1979]
- present+ Bryan_Garaventa
- 19:06:08 [joanie]
- Zakim, take up item 1
- 19:06:08 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "ACTION-2008 (Cynthia/Joseph) Handle concept of description property for UIA - merged, final review." taken up [from clown]
- 19:06:19 [clown]
- action-2008?
- 19:06:19 [trackbot]
- action-2008 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Handle concept of description property for UIA -- due 2016-03-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 19:06:19 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2008
- 19:06:29 [joanie]
- JS: You all should have a look at this even though Cynthia is not here.
- 19:06:34 [clown]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#accessible-names-and-descriptions
- 19:06:37 [joanie]
- JS: I did want her approval.
- 19:06:48 [joanie]
- JS: If you first go to the above URL in the Core AAM.
- 19:07:09 [joanie]
- JS: In the fourth paragraph, it says (Joseph reads)
- 19:07:14 [joanie]
- RS: MSAA does?
- 19:07:19 [joanie]
- JS: That's my question.
- 19:07:26 [joanie]
- JS: This is Cynthia's text.
- 19:07:33 [joanie]
- RS: I believe she's got it wrong.
- 19:07:40 [joanie]
- RS: This is a UIA property.
- 19:07:48 [joanie]
- JS: I'll ask Cynthia about that.
- 19:07:55 [clown]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDescribedBy
- 19:08:01 [joanie]
- JS: Next place to go is the above URL.
- 19:08:08 [joanie]
- JS: The first sentence is new.
- 19:08:14 [joanie]
- RS: (Reads text)
- 19:09:00 [joanie]
- RS: Do they have the reverse relationships in UIA?
- 19:09:03 [joanie]
- JS: I don't know.
- 19:09:09 [joanie]
- JS: I don't think so, but I'm not sure
- 19:09:27 [joanie]
- RS: I think they should, but what does Joanie think?
- 19:10:05 [joanie]
- JD: It depends.
- 19:10:26 [joanie]
- RS: Where I think it matters is with things like aria-details.
- 19:10:33 [joanie]
- RS: You need to go back.
- 19:10:44 [joanie]
- JS: But then that's a platform issue; not a spec issue.
- 19:10:51 [joanie]
- RS: I think they should consider this.
- 19:11:00 [joanie]
- RS: It might be a performance problem, but at the end of the day....
- 19:11:06 [joanie]
- RS: Can we raise an issue for this?
- 19:11:17 [joanie]
- RS: This is new API on the platform, but can we raise it?
- 19:11:22 [joanie]
- JS: Sure. Why not?
- 19:11:48 [joanie]
- JS: The issue we're looking at (here at this meeting) is the addition of the sentence for the new description property.
- 19:12:13 [joanie]
- s/description property/UIA description property/
- 19:13:07 [joanie]
- RS: Do you want me to send Cynthia an email?
- 19:13:28 [joanie]
- JS: Yes please. If she replies that the reverse relationship exists, then we can open an issue against the Core AAM.
- 19:17:48 [joanie]
- JS: I will ask Cynthia about the reference to MSAA.
- 19:17:57 [joanie]
- JS: And close this action.
- 19:18:03 [joanie]
- JS: If need be I'll open a new action.
- 19:18:07 [joanie]
- Zakim, next item
- 19:18:07 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "ACTION-1569/ACTION-2032/ISSUE-540 (Cynthia/Jason) Section on AAPI differences - merged, final review." taken up [from clown]
- 19:18:13 [clown]
- action-1569?
- 19:18:13 [trackbot]
- action-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-02-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 19:18:13 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
- 19:18:33 [joanie]
- JS: Jason and Cynthia wanted to add a section about API differences.
- 19:18:42 [joanie]
- JS: They gave me text. I've added it in.
- 19:18:52 [joanie]
- JS: I need them to confirm what I've done is what they want.
- 19:19:01 [joanie]
- JS: We have three actions pending review, waiting for them to respond.
- 19:19:07 [joanie]
- JS: The section in question is:
- 19:19:14 [clown]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#comparing-accessibility-apis
- 19:19:28 [joanie]
- JS: There's a little blurb about each platform.
- 19:19:41 [joanie]
- JS: And also about name and descriptions and the API differences.
- 19:19:49 [joanie]
- JS: Do we want to discuss this any further today?
- 19:20:11 [joanie]
- RS: (Reads)
- 19:20:22 [joanie]
- JS: IA2 is not mentioned anywhere.
- 19:20:37 [joanie]
- RS: And it's used in a couple of browsers: Chrome and Firefox.
- 19:20:42 [joanie]
- JS and RS: On Windows.
- 19:20:56 [joanie]
- JS: Anything you want to say about it?
- 19:21:08 [joanie]
- RS: It's very similar to ATK/AT-SPI2 in terms of the information it provides.
- 19:21:38 [joanie]
- RS: The client/server situation for GNU/Linux is different.
- 19:22:01 [joanie]
- RS: Perhaps we should make a statement about IA2 being similar, but lacking that client and provider relation.
- 19:22:09 [joanie]
- JS: At this point, I just want to leave it alone.
- 19:22:14 [joanie]
- RS: This is not a normative section.
- 19:22:39 [joanie]
- RS: But what you probably should do.... You have this first sentence. It should probably be outside the first paragraph.
- 19:22:50 [joanie]
- RS: Then go into Linux/GNOME stuff.
- 19:23:06 [joanie]
- RS: You bury them in the ATK/AT-SPI2 section.
- 19:23:15 [joanie]
- RS: (Reads more)
- 19:23:24 [joanie]
- RS: UIA actually does separate out a client and provider side.
- 19:23:32 [joanie]
- RS: But they don't document the provider side.
- 19:23:39 [joanie]
- RS: UIA is actually the client side.
- 19:24:17 [joanie]
- JD: But you don't implement the client side. So who is reading this?
- 19:24:27 [joanie]
- RS: We're testing AT-SPI2; not ATK.
- 19:24:39 [joanie]
- JS: I agree. And it depends who the audience is.
- 19:24:57 [joanie]
- JS: User agent implementations care about ATK; testers about AT-SPI2.
- 19:25:09 [joanie]
- RS: UIA is only implemented by Microsoft, I believe.
- 19:25:18 [joanie]
- RS: I hope we have convergence at some point.
- 19:25:45 [joanie]
- RS: If we could create an API that's specific to the web as the starting point, and go from there. That would be the right thing to do. A lot easier, I would think.
- 19:28:23 [joanie]
- JD: (Makes nitpicky clarification about "new API" versus "a new API".)
- 19:29:00 [joanie]
- RS: If you don't want to write an IA2 section, you could reference all of them at the top.
- 19:29:12 [joanie]
- RS: And then refer to it later (e.g. in ATK/AT-SPI2).
- 19:29:36 [joanie]
- RS: Then if people really want an IA2 section, they can write it. :)
- 19:30:04 [joanie]
- JS: I'll do this. Though it won't be my top priority, given other work I need to complete.
- 19:30:07 [joanie]
- action-1659
- 19:30:07 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but action-1659 does not exist.
- 19:30:17 [joanie]
- action-1569
- 19:30:17 [trackbot]
- action-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-02-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 19:30:17 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
- 19:30:31 [joanie]
- JS: I'll add a comment to action-1569 to make this change.
- 19:33:43 [joanie]
- Zakim, next item
- 19:33:43 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "ACTION-2012/ACTION-2013 (Joseph, Cynthia) UIA mappings for landmark roles, pull request merged: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272 — close?" taken up [from clown]
- 19:33:56 [joanie]
- JS: I'll skip this one.
- 19:34:04 [joanie]
- JS: I merged her changes in.
- 19:34:11 [joanie]
- Zakim, next item
- 19:34:11 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 was just opened, joanie
- 19:34:19 [joanie]
- Zakim, close this item
- 19:34:19 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 closed
- 19:34:20 [Zakim]
- I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 19:34:20 [Zakim]
- 4. agenda+ ACTION-2041 (Joseph/James) AXAPI mapping for role="application", specifically change AXLandmarkApplication subrole.
- 19:34:23 [joanie]
- Zakim, next item
- 19:34:23 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "agenda+ ACTION-2041 (Joseph/James) AXAPI mapping for role="application", specifically change AXLandmarkApplication subrole." taken up
- 19:34:33 [clown]
- action-2041?
- 19:34:33 [trackbot]
- action-2041 -- James Craig to AXAPI: New subrole for role="application" since 'AXLandmarkApplication' no longer applies (application role no longer a landmark) -- due 2016-03-21 -- OPEN
- 19:34:33 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2041
- 19:35:00 [clown]
- https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155403
- 19:35:03 [joanie]
- JS: The role application is no longer a landmark, but it's been mapped forever to AXLandmarkApplication.
- 19:35:15 [joanie]
- JS: There is a bug in WebKit's bugzilla. (Link above)
- 19:35:23 [joanie]
- JS: Nothing has happened since March 12th.
- 19:35:53 [joanie]
- RS: Joanie, when you check with Apple about DPub, could you ask about this bug?
- 19:35:56 [joanie]
- JD: Sure.
- 19:36:33 [clown]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-application
- 19:38:59 [clown]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#application
- 19:39:27 [clown]
- "When there is a need to create an element with an interaction model that is not supported by any of the WAI-ARIA widget roles, authors MAY give that element role application. "
- 19:39:42 [joanie]
- RS: What people were using role="application" for was to indicate they would handle all application navigation.
- 19:39:59 [clown]
- "And, when a user navigates into an element with role application, assistive technologies that intercept standard input events SHOULD switch to a mode that passes most or all standard input events through to the web application."
- 19:46:01 [joanie]
- JS: So now that role="application" is no longer a landmark, the current situation seems to be that it's going to have AXRole of AXGroup, but the subrole will need to change.
- 19:46:13 [joanie]
- RS: You still need to know it's interactive and not steal the keys.
- 19:46:31 [clown]
- "Don't use AXApplication since that's reserved for native apps."
- 19:46:32 [joanie]
- RS: AXGroup won't accomplish that, so there needs to be a subrole to communicate that.
- 19:46:48 [joanie]
- JS: The text above is in the bug comment.
- 19:47:39 [joanie]
- JS: Does AXAPI have an enumerated set of subroles, or can they be created when needed?
- 19:47:42 [joanie]
- JD: Not sure.
- 19:47:45 [joanie]
- Zakim, next item
- 19:47:45 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "ACTION-1668 (Rich/Alex) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2." taken up [from clown]
- 19:47:55 [clown]
- action-1668?
- 19:47:55 [trackbot]
- action-1668 -- Alexander Surkov to Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN
- 19:47:55 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668
- 19:48:08 [joanie]
- JS: This is one of yours, Rich.
- 19:48:12 [joanie]
- RS: Me?
- 19:48:20 [joanie]
- RS: They already said they'd do this.
- 19:48:24 [joanie]
- JS: Really?
- 19:48:34 [joanie]
- JS: Do you have a link to the discussion?
- 19:48:49 [joanie]
- RS: I posted to the list awhile back.
- 19:49:15 [joanie]
- JS: This is due on the 7th of July.
- 19:49:24 [joanie]
- RS: I'm looking.
- 19:50:01 [Rich]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0375.html
- 19:50:05 [joanie]
- RS: Here's the first post (above)
- 19:50:45 [Rich]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0380.html
- 19:50:55 [joanie]
- RS: (Reads from above URL)
- 19:51:08 [joanie]
- RS: So Jamie and Surkov have responded.
- 19:51:31 [joanie]
- JS: But in that message, Jamie says that he'll leave it to someone else to talk to the other screen reader vendors.
- 19:51:44 [joanie]
- RS: I talked to Freedom Scientific. They seem fine with it.
- 19:53:16 [joanie]
- RS: I'll check with Alex Surkov.
- 19:53:23 [joanie]
- JS: I'll assign the issue to me.
- 19:53:56 [joanie]
- agenda?
- 19:54:06 [joanie]
- Zakim, next item
- 19:54:06 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "ACTION-1541 (Joseph/Joanie) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal property -- update progress." taken up [from clown]
- 19:54:14 [clown]
- action-1541?
- 19:54:14 [trackbot]
- action-1541 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate and propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due 2016-02-08 -- OPEN
- 19:54:14 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1541
- 19:54:24 [joanie]
- JS: There is aria-modal and the mapping.
- 19:54:30 [joanie]
- JS: Apple has implemented it already.
- 19:54:44 [joanie]
- JS: Joanie investigated the mapping and provided a description of what she found.
- 19:54:45 [clown]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaModalTrue
- 19:54:52 [joanie]
- JS: We have this slot in the mapping spec (above link).
- 19:55:09 [joanie]
- JS: We have stuff in there for the other APIs, but nothing yet for AXAPI.
- 19:56:08 [joanie]
- JS: It appears that Apple is not so much exposing aria-modal as they are pruning the rest of the tree.
- 19:56:18 [joanie]
- JS: Is that correct, Joanie?
- 19:56:45 [joanie]
- JD: That was my take. But I believe I also stated that I was not Apple and that it would probably make sense to check with Apple to be sure.
- 19:56:54 [joanie]
- RS: What you are describing is really expensive.
- 19:57:03 [joanie]
- RS: (Describes a viewport-based solution)
- 19:58:04 [joanie]
- JS: Getting back to the previous question, we need to know what AXAPI does.
- 19:59:11 [clown]
- https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566#c23
- 20:04:54 [joanie]
- JD: I just commented on the bug, asking Chris to provide the official mapping for AXAPI's exposure of aria-modal.
- 20:05:17 [joanie]
- Zakim, part
- 20:05:17 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa
- 20:05:17 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aapi
- 20:05:23 [joanie]
- RRSAgent, stop
- 20:06:44 [joanie]
- scribeOptions: -final
- 20:06:51 [joanie]
- RRSAgent, stop