See also: IRC log
<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Mar/0086.html
Scribe; Stefan
<scribe> Scribe:Stefan
<scribe> Scribe: Stefan
Rich: docunments not ready yet
Rich. we can leave this after CSUN
MC: Just joined
Rich: list for heartbeats
... DPUB lotta changes
... once done tomorrow you can take this with you
... noticed about spinbutton?
MC: not noticed yet
Rich: there were actions(deprecated)
2021 action
Rich: can be closed
<jemma> +q
RESOLUTION: Core AAM Core Name + Description DPUB-ARIA DPUB-AAM they will be published as heartbeat drafts
Matt: new branch created
<Rich> Action-1490?
<trackbot> Action-1490 -- Matthew King to Propose spec text edit for issue-610: comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- due 2016-02-03 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1490
<mck> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action1490-combobox/aria/aria.html#combobox
Matt: to summarize changes ..
lets go pyragraph by paragraph
... made clear that it is a composite widget
... popup helps to set value of combobox
<jemma> A composite widget containing a single-line textbox that can trigger an associated pop-up, such as a listbox or grid, for helping the user set the value of the textbox.
<jemma> I copied definition
Rich: should be "contains" popup
<jemma> Authors must ensure an element with role combobox contains or owns an element with role textbox and that the textbox has aria-multiline set to false. If the combobox provides autocompletion behavior for the text input as described in aria-autocomplete, authors should set aria-autocomplete on the textbox element to the value that corresponds to the provided behavior.
Matt: contains is not
correct
... distinguishing behaviour is that its textbox can trigger
popup element
Rich: do you want to say that it causes annother widget to popup
Matt: ok I will read ovwer the
wording
... (goes ober wording)
... how do you want me to call the thing that pops up?
Rich: Listbox ....
Matt: Bryan provided useful
feedback on the list
... we should nt be overly prescriptive in the combination of
elements
Rich: we get the testing afterwards
Cynthia: custom autocomplete of combobox ?
Matt: no changes for this in the
branch
... autocomplete is aan author must
... wording s okay i think
... what appropriate value for autocomplete
Rich: it's ok
Brian: combobox on textbox is also valid?
Matt: coding pattern described
here is different from aria 1.0
... but this desn't mean that both patterns should not
supported by AT
Brian: its not in 1.1. spec
Matt: they are complmentory
... 1.0 pattern will fade away
Brian: "should" is the problem in the wording
Matt: I disagree with the fact
that 1.0 implementations are full accessible
... there is need for improvement, but we don't want to break
compatibility
... we encourage to use the new pattern
Joseph: was an authors must autocomplete? no it was a should
<Zakim> clown, you wanted to ask whether the "authors SHOULD set autocomplete" is different from the previous version.
Joseph: a SHOULD means MUST
unless there is a good reason not to. What is that
reason?
... if group decides to elevate, fine with me
Rich: we should do it
... any objections?
Matt: will change testcase
Rich: test tools will have to change for that
Jon: when autocomplete=false a
must?
... autocomplete=none what will screen rereader do?
Cynthia: we can discuss autocomplete offline
still action Action 1490: Combobox
<Rich> ACTION: matt update definition of aria-autocomplete [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> 'matt' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., mgarrish, mking3).
<Rich> ACTION: mking3 update definition of aria-autocomplete [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2039 - Update definition of aria-autocomplete [on Matthew King - due 2016-03-17].
Matt: expanded/collapsed in 3rd
paragraph
... again MUST is used
... implicit value of expanded=false on combobox
+q
Matt: is part of the characteristics table
Rich: why implicit? you are requiring it anyways
rrrsagent, make minutes
Rich: if MUST we have to set implicit states, too
Matt: you want to leave it in the table? its covered by AAM
Joseph: if you leave it off it is still there implicitely
Rich: a warning for a required state in test tools will be raised
Matt: I thinkthis is
editorial
... the last sentence
Joseph: for aria-expandable this WOULD be required
Bryan: I'm fine when I'm following the spec
Matt: frm a checking standpoint you MUST do it in both cases
Joseph: user agents do it anyway
Rich: we had a round with test tools... compliance?
Matt: all tools are based on
author's must ..
... Fred this is an author's must staement
Fred: why do you need it telling an eveloper when they are doing wrong?
Shane: basic spec philosophy question ..
Matt: running out of time
Rich: go ahead
Matt: two paragraphs remain
... cntains or owns annother element that is a popup ..
Rich: it could be landmark .. narrow down scope please
Matt: let's think about purpose
of role attribute
... describe behaviours in a way to comprehend the inner
interaction pattern
... in this case quite simple .. textbox, popup and value
... interaction pattern matters
... we should not limit things in popups
Cynthia: in popup is list of things
Matt: no this is too
limiting
... no reason to have complicated conventions to limit
that
... purpose of aria is to help user understand interaction
model we dont need to be super prespictive
(Matt + Cynthia discussion)
Rich: you are taking input to fill textbox?
Matt: right
... really valid reason to do this this way
... people should think about essential elements in the
pattern
Rich: i would like to see a restricted set of widget types
Matt: I will change that in iteration next to limit list
Rich: let's see that list
<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to point out that menus in input fields are common in ideographic languages
https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2004
<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/166
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/password-role/aria/aria.html#password
<ShaneM> ShaneM: Note that ideographic input methods often show menus to complete text input , even as part of a combo box. Not sure if this is a list of a menu
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2020
Cynthia: had long discussion with
dev team
... from edge
<Rich> Cynthia: I reviewed this idea with one of our security experts. His opinion was that adding role=password doesn't add any additional threat. He did think that using divs and images to simulate a password was less secure than using an html password input, but that adding the accessibility piece to it didn't have any impact on the security risk.
Rich: coming back to Joanis proposal for password
<Rich> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/password-role/aria/aria.html#password
SIs list of properties identical to textbox?
Joanmarie: describedat is
added
... will do new version of branch
<ShaneM> describedat is NOT added.
Rich: must get to right
branch
... we will have to get the merge branch
<ShaneM> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#textbox
(discussion about branch refrehes)
Rich: forge about
superclass
... (checking properties)
Shane: autocomplete isn't ..
Joseph: taxonomy doesn't allow you to kick out props
Rich: you have to subclass input but no multiline and autocomplete
Joanmarie: you have to start out .. role changes .. is jacky for AT .. I will do a brand new branch
Shane: multiline is possible but
not with textarea
... in HTML
... the property for a pssword element
... password in HTML is no multiline
Rich;
<ShaneM> sorry joanie :(
(discussion about what IS a use case for password fields)
Joanie: will e faster for shane -> assigned to shane
Rich: next week ? after CSUN
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/17
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1756
Rich: what is this about shane?
Shane: build markup associations in spec .. json file creation that helps us
Joseph: associations are MUST statements?#Shane: or shoulds
Shane: conditional associations based on if
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/641
<Rich> action-1744?
<trackbot> action-1744 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Implement edits proposed in issue-641, raise to group if any subsantive changes come out -- due 2015-11-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1744
Rich: this is for James craig.. do you remember joane? Joanie: no
Joanie: next week
Rich: ok
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/648
Rich: we did this
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#implicit_semantics
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#host_general_conflict
<Rich> ACTION: Michael modify section 7.4 to include role values as native host language semantics in paragraph 2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2040 - Modify section 7.4 to include role values as native host language semantics in paragraph 2 [on Michael Cooper - due 2016-03-17].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Biran/Bryan/ Succeeded: s/Joseph: what#s a good reason for MUST/Joseph: a SHOULD means MUST unless there is a good reason not to. What is that reason?/ Found Scribe: Stefan Inferring ScribeNick: Stefan Found Scribe: Stefan Inferring ScribeNick: Stefan Present: Joanmarie_Diggs JaeunJemmaku Rich_Schwerdtfeger fesch Joseph_Scheuhammer jongund Tzviya ShaneM Found Date: 10 Mar 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html People with action items: 7.4 matt michael mking3 modify section WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]