IRC log of aapi on 2016-01-12

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19:49:09 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/12-aapi-irc
19:49:11 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
19:49:11 [Zakim]
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19:49:13 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
19:49:13 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
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Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
19:49:14 [trackbot]
Date: 12 January 2016
19:50:03 [clown]
chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:50:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/12-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:50:27 [clown]
agenda: this
19:50:38 [clown]
agenda+ ACTION-1104 (Joanie) Monitor progress of ATK bug re: new position, level, and other API.
19:50:45 [clown]
agenda+ ACTION-1528 (All) Bolter to investigate IA2 mapping of aria-current.
19:50:55 [clown]
agenda+ ACTION-1529 (Joseph/Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI mappings of aria-current -- review edits.
19:51:04 [clown]
agenda+ ACTION-1531 (Joseph) Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text"
19:51:12 [clown]
agenda+ ACTION-1533 (Joanie) Possibly create minimal JavaScript AT-SPI listener for automating CR tests.
19:51:33 [clown]
agenda+ Action/issue triage for ARIA 1.1 (https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23)
19:51:56 [richardschwerdtfeger]
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19:52:31 [clown]
agenda+ Also, triage bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA , https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:52:38 [clown]
agenda+ be done.
19:52:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/12-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:58:06 [clown]
present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:59:32 [joanie]
present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
20:00:13 [joanie]
present+ Bryan_Garaventa
20:01:14 [bgaraventa1979]
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20:01:22 [clown]
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=mc95b26d5612c2835c7f8dce9cfe2d6cb
20:01:29 [clown]
richardschwerdtfeger ^
20:02:22 [richardschwerdtfeger]
present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:04:17 [cyns]
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20:07:17 [cyns]
nah, just fat fingers
20:07:46 [joanie]
scribe: joanie
20:08:10 [joanie]
Zakim, take up item 1
20:08:10 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "ACTION-1104 (Joanie) Monitor progress of ATK bug re: new position, level, and other API." taken up [from clown]
20:08:20 [clown]
action-1104?
20:08:20 [trackbot]
action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2016-12-31 -- OPEN
20:08:20 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1104
20:08:27 [joanie]
JS: I thought we'd probably knock this one off pretty quickly.
20:08:53 [joanie]
JS: It's about adding group position to ATK/AT-SPI2 (which is not the action here)
20:09:38 [clown]
ACTION-1409?
20:09:38 [trackbot]
ACTION-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2015-12-18 -- OPEN
20:09:38 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1409
20:10:05 [joanie]
JD: In short, haven't gotten to it yet.
20:12:43 [joanie]
JD: At this point we're looking at doing it during the 3.21/3.22 cycle.
20:13:03 [joanie]
JS: I'll update the action with a note.
20:13:13 [joanie]
JS: Does that mean it's a year away.
20:13:26 [joanie]
JD: No, because the 3.20 release is like in March(ish)
20:13:33 [joanie]
JD: Then we start 3.21 development.
20:14:13 [joanie]
JD: But, again, these attributes are being exposed already. So that's not blocked.
20:14:28 [joanie]
JD: What this action is for is to have better API in the platform.
20:14:47 [joanie]
JS: So I want a new due date for this.
20:15:01 [joanie]
JD: Two months?
20:15:14 [joanie]
JS: It's clearly not 1.1. Will there be an ARIA 1.2?
20:15:25 [joanie]
RS: We haven't decided that yet.
20:15:46 [joanie]
JS: I'm tempted then to move it out to ARIA 2.0. Objections?
20:15:49 [joanie]
RS: No.
20:16:05 [joanie]
JS: So then when?
20:16:09 [joanie]
JD: Two months?
20:16:13 [joanie]
JS: That's March.
20:16:25 [joanie]
JD: That or April. For a ping.
20:17:19 [joanie]
JS: I'll change the action (action-1409) and the associated issue to ARIA 2.0.
20:18:18 [joanie]
present+ Cynthia_Shelly
20:18:21 [joanie]
Zakim, next item
20:18:22 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "ACTION-1528 (All) Bolter to investigate IA2 mapping of aria-current." taken up [from clown]
20:18:29 [clown]
action-1528?
20:18:29 [trackbot]
action-1528 -- Alexander Surkov to Bolter to investigate the proper ia2 mappings for aria-current -- due 2014-11-18 -- CLOSED
20:18:29 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1528
20:19:01 [joanie]
JS: The IA2 mapping for aria-current.
20:19:11 [joanie]
JS: Just before the break, Rich wrote to the IA2 list.
20:19:17 [clown]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrent
20:19:23 [joanie]
JS: There was some discussion between Alex Surkov and James Teh.
20:19:40 [joanie]
JS: The conclusion was that for now they will expose it via an object attribute.
20:19:48 [joanie]
JS: The URL is above.
20:20:07 [joanie]
JS: IA2 is using STATE_ACTIVE for something else.
20:20:26 [joanie]
JS: It's not the same as STATE_ACTIVE for ATK.
20:20:54 [joanie]
JS: There's some discussion between James Teh and Alex Surkov if other AT vendors can use STATE_ACTIVE in this additional way.
20:21:02 [joanie]
JS: But if they can, that won't happen any time soon.
20:21:08 [joanie]
JS: Hence, object attribute.
20:21:18 [joanie]
JS: I closed this action because I did the edits yesterday.
20:21:40 [joanie]
JS: I still need to fill in the AX API values.
20:22:41 [joanie]
JD: In my email backlog, I believe there is a thread bump (on the new mailing list) with his/Apple's(?) concerns about aria-current.
20:22:54 [joanie]
JD: If I'm right about that, we should take a look.
20:23:02 [joanie]
JS: I vaguely remember that thread.
20:23:18 [joanie]
JS: I think it was related to on what object/element the property should be exposed.
20:23:42 [joanie]
RS: Let's say we have a navigation section with a bunch of links.
20:23:57 [joanie]
RS: You're not going to go to the nav; you're going to go to the links. Right?
20:24:04 [joanie]
BG: I know what thread you're talking about.
20:24:45 [joanie]
BG: From what I remember, I think Apple already implemented aria-current on the element that it's applied to.
20:24:58 [joanie]
BG: So I don't think that changes the spec or anything.
20:25:36 [clown]
http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/189642
20:26:03 [joanie]
JS: If you look through the above.... One of the attachments on the associated bug gives the values to use for AX API.
20:26:46 [joanie]
JS: They stick AXCurrent on the item. And the value is one of true, false, page, step, ...
20:27:01 [joanie]
JS: Which is essentially what we are doing for all the other accessibility APIs.
20:27:24 [joanie]
BG + JS: It was basically too expensive to find the relevant container.
20:27:40 [clown]
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20:27:51 [joanie]
JS: So James had an idea including the use of the ID.
20:27:59 [joanie]
JS: But the Léonie said it wasn't needed.
20:28:02 [joanie]
Zakim, next item
20:28:02 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "ACTION-1529 (Joseph/Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI mappings of aria-current -- review edits." taken up [from clown]
20:28:12 [clown]
action-1529?
20:28:12 [trackbot]
action-1529 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate the proper atk/at-spi mappings for aria-current -- due 2014-11-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:28:12 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1529
20:28:24 [clown]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrent
20:28:29 [joanie]
JS: I made some edits before the break with a note for Joanie to review it.
20:28:41 [joanie]
JS: (Reads from spec)
20:35:10 [joanie]
JD: If it's absent completely (undefined), then it's not mapped.
20:36:52 [joanie]
JS: Do we need an entry for aria-current with a value of false?
20:37:42 [joanie]
JD: If something is aria-current and then becomes not-current, then for ATK/AT-SPI2, an object:state-changed:active event with detail1 being false needs to be emitted.
20:39:59 [joanie]
JS: If I put that in for ATK/AT-SPI2, do I need to do something similar for the other platforms?
20:40:03 [clown]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#event-aria-current
20:40:16 [joanie]
JS: While you're thinking about that, look at the event table (at above URI).
20:41:35 [joanie]
JD: Fine for me.
20:41:43 [joanie]
CS: We don't have a good place to map this.
20:41:53 [joanie]
CS: So you'd emit a property-change event.
20:42:01 [joanie]
CS: On the aria-property property.
20:42:23 [joanie]
CS: Property change is the right one.
20:42:40 [joanie]
CS: If there were a "current" property, that would be the event type. But there's not.
20:42:53 [joanie]
JS: It looks like we already have language/something similar for aria-busy.
20:42:56 [joanie]
CS: Yes.
20:43:08 [joanie]
JS: To recap: Not mapped for aria-current=undefined for ATK.
20:43:28 [joanie]
JS: I'll add a property-change event for UIA.
20:44:08 [joanie]
JS: So I just need AX API values and whether or not they have associated events.
20:44:19 [clown]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
20:44:19 [joanie]
RS: Do we have an issue to add the error-message mapping?
20:44:28 [joanie]
JS: We do. Though somewhat off-topic.
20:44:36 [joanie]
JS: See the above product list.
20:44:42 [joanie]
RS: We don't have default values.
20:44:46 [joanie]
JS: Yes we do.
20:45:04 [joanie]
JS: I emailed you.
20:46:29 [joanie]
Zakim, next item
20:46:29 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "ACTION-1531 (Joseph) Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text"" taken up [from clown]
20:46:39 [clown]
action-1531
20:46:39 [trackbot]
action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
20:46:39 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1531
20:47:48 [joanie]
JS: I needed IA2 mappings for role="text".
20:47:56 [joanie]
JS: There was a lengthy thread about it.
20:48:09 [joanie]
JS: In the end the conclusion was map it to IA2_ROLE_TEXT_FRAME.
20:55:27 [joanie]
RS: What about UIA?
20:55:32 [joanie]
JS: Text control pattern.
20:55:42 [joanie]
CS: That makes it non-elements.
20:58:11 [joanie]
JS: What do we want to do about text?
20:58:27 [joanie]
RS: I question the mapping to text frame.
20:58:37 [joanie]
JS: I can try to engage the IA2 people.
21:00:15 [joanie]
CS: I'm concerned about authors confusing text and none.
21:00:53 [joanie]
BG: With role="text", I can see common misuses like putting role="text" on anything which has text.
21:01:12 [joanie]
JS: In the spec, one of the examples is to turn three paragraphs into a single string.
21:02:35 [joanie]
Zakim, part
21:02:35 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly
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21:02:51 [joanie]
scribeOptions: -final
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RRSAgent, stop