[1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

           Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

04 Dec 2015

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Fred, AmeliaBR, chaals, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, shepazu,
          LJWatson, Jason, fesch, Doug, Rich

   Regrets
   Chair
          fesch

   Scribe
          AmeliaBR

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Admin & Housekeeping
         2. [5]SVG 2 TODOs
         3. [6]Testing & Test Suites
         4. [7]Examples
         5. [8]Specifications
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     * [10]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   [11]https://mit.webex.com/mit/e.php?MTID=mfbccb8d6db27f5aa089c1
   2da792afa6d

     [11] https://mit.webex.com/mit/e.php?MTID=mfbccb8d6db27f5aa089c12da792afa6d

   <scribe> scribe: AmeliaBR

Admin & Housekeeping

   Fred: How many more meetings before end of the year?

   Rich: No more than 2. Who's going to be available next week?

   Fred: I would like to meet next week to follow up on the
   testable statements work in the main WG.

   Rich: I'd also like to get started on the test suite. That
   gives people things to work on while others are on holiday.

   Chaals: I'm available next 2 weeks, but then will be in
   Australia which doesn't work with this time.

   <chaals> [I'll be OK for next 2 weeks, then in Australia, where
   this meeting is not at a reasonable time. I'll be probably back
   on 22nd Jan.]

   RESOLUTION: The Task Force will meet Dec 11 & 18, won't meet
   Dec 25/Jan 1, then will reconvene Jan 8.

   Fred: Since the TF is split between different WG, it's hard to
   use the tracker for Actions. Michael Cooper has offered to set
   up a specific Tracker for the task force.

   (no objections/comments)

   RESOLUTION: Ask Michael to set up an issue & action tracker for
   the task force.

   Fred: Rich, are you still planning to set up a poll to consider
   a new telcon time? Rich: I'll do that in January

SVG 2 TODOs

   <fesch> amelia: issue with role test - will it add extra
   functionality? Unlikely new functionality get into SVG 2.

   <fesch> amelia: support for general idea but not likely to
   happen for SVG 2.

   <fesch> amelia: a couple TODOs on mapping spec

   <fesch> amelia: need to go through and do research on current
   behavior, before we make proposals for changes

Testing & Test Suites

   <fesch> [12]https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing

     [12] https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing

   Fred: The ARIA WG is moving ahead with setting up new tests for
   ARIA specs, we will need to coordinate

   <fesch> [13]https://github.com/SVG-access-W3CG/svg-a11y-tests

     [13] https://github.com/SVG-access-W3CG/svg-a11y-tests

   Fred: the wiki list is a set of testable statements I put
   together
   ... Chaals and Leonie have been putting together test case SVG
   examples on GitHub
   ... I would like someone else to go through my testable
   statements list & identify gaps. For starters, I don't have
   anything related to roles.

   Chaals: It looks like a good list, but I'd like to see them
   turned into actual tests. Do you plan to do that?

   Fred: I will, but I'm waiting on the ARIA WG to decide on a
   template or format, so I can work with that.

   Leonie: If the list could be copied to the GitHub repo, that
   would make it easier to review, update, and file issues.

   Chaals: Even if there are missing things, we can start making
   tests, and update or delete as needs be. Start with what we've
   got & then add more.

   Fred: So I should start with the format you've already got?

   Leonie: If you clone the repo, there's already a template file
   in there.

   Chaals: You may also want to talk to Michael, I know they have
   some JavaScript magic to put the proper test structure.
   ... but you can start by converting the prose into actual SVG
   code.

   Fred: Does someone want to review to be sure my tests are
   correct?

   Amelia: I will eventually, but it may need to be an iterative
   process.

   Chaals: I can look at it this week.

   <chaals> ACTION: Chaals to review Fred's test proposals as far
   as possible in a week. [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01
   ]

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-1757 - Review fred's test proposals
   as far as possible in a week. [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due
   2015-12-11].

   Fred: I also need to look at the roles, I only looked at name
   and description

   <scribe> ACTION: Fred to expand testable statements to include
   roles. [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action02
   ]

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-1758 - Expand testable statements to
   include roles. [on Fred Esch - due 2015-12-11].

   Fred: Looking forward, how will the tests actually be done?

   Rich: There hasn't been the bandwidth to set up an automated
   process yet.

   Chaals: So far, it's been manual, testing and then writing
   results into an HTML file. If we could at least set up a system
   where someone can just click yes/no and have it submit the
   data, that would be helpful.

Examples

   Fred: Chaals, you've been working on this.

   Chaals: We have put together a collection of images; I've been
   starting with ~5 of them, trying to make them as accessible as
   I can.
   ... It's fairly straightforward for tree diagrams, chord
   charts, and basic bar charts.
   ... I haven't touched anything interactive.
   ... I also haven't really used any of the new roles.
   ... I'm mostly focusing on trying to make things work now, with
   keyboard nav, which means not relying much on ARIA.
   ... Existing implementations are so bad, that we can't rely on
   it.
   ... Going forward, we want to create best practices examples.
   Which means making code that sometimes seems like stupid
   choices to an author, to work around the rubbish browser/AT
   implementations.
   ... But the other thing is to make examples of what *should*
   work, based on the specs, so that we can take them to the
   browsers & ATs and tell them to fix it.

   Fred: One thing, is how to address interactive issues. Does W3C
   have interactive tests?

   Amelia: Yes, you just need a clear script of what the tester
   should do and what the outcome should be.

   Chaals: We definitely need to test interactivity, because
   navigation and many other functions are inherently interactive.

   Fred: Are there interactive SVG tests? Should we follow their
   format?

   Amelia: There are in existing test suite, hasn't been updated
   in a while. SVG may be switching to the test system used by
   CSS, which is more automated.

   Chaals: For interactivity and other features, we need to write
   up these ideal examples.

   Amelia: I would like to create a system of paired examples: For
   each example, write it up once with the ideal, minimal markup,
   and once with the current best-practice redundant markup. The
   redundant markup would be current advice for authors, but it
   would also help emphasize to browsers/AT why they need to
   support the simpler declarative/semantic syntax.

   Rich: We need to sync up with SVG as far as test suites. E.g.,
   tabindex is SVG 2. Has any work been done in SVG WG about
   getting test suites for that?

   Amelia: Not that I've heard. The current focus is getting the
   spec finalized, tests will come next.

   Fred: Should we even address that in our tests, then, if it's
   part of the main SVG 2?

   Amelia: I think we should, so long as we make sure we're
   coordinated and consistent.

   Rich: We may also have features that we're more concerned with
   that we want to emphasize.

   Chaals: It would be useful if we can include our tests within
   their test suite, so that they are clearly visible when someone
   is testing. But if that's not possible, so long as we push
   forward and make sure people are reminded of the results when
   tests are being failed, that's fine. It's just more work for us
   to emphasize it.

   <fesch> [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/gamepad/

     [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/gamepad/

   Fred: I've been working on the gamepad spec for APA. They use
   SVG as <embed> in an example. I was hoping to work with Jason
   to help mark that up ideally.

   Amelia: If there are examples of how SVG should behave in other
   accessibility specs, it makes sense for us to review for best
   practices.

   Chaals: There a lots of SVG figures in W3C specs, and most of
   them are garbage markup from authoring tools.

   Amelia: That might be over-reaching to try to fix every figure.

   Fred: But if I see similar examples and figures, can I grab
   them or bring them to peoples' attention?

   Chaals: I have been doing that, putting them in the repo.
   Please use the repo for any similar example.

Specifications

   Rich: Right now, for name and description, this is a core
   issue, need to review the proposals Amelia made.
   ... I also need to write up a mapping spec for the new mapping
   spec for the new graphics roles. This is separate from the SVG
   mapping, as these roles may be used with other languages. But
   it should be a short spec.
   ... I will also follow up with putting pressure on browsers to
   get support for key things, such as tabindex.

   (Discussion on current sorry state of tabindex support in SVG)

   trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Chaals to review Fred's test proposals as far as
   possible in a week. [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01
   ]
   [NEW] ACTION: Fred to expand testable statements to include
   roles. [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action02
   ]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01
     [18] http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action02

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [19]The Task Force will meet Dec 11 & 18, won't meet Dec
       25/Jan 1, then will reconvene Jan 8.
    2. [20]Ask Michael to set up an issue & action tracker for the
       task force.

   [End of minutes]
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    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [21]scribe.perl version
    1.144 ([22]CVS log)
    $Date: 2015/12/04 16:03:54 $
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     [21] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [22] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

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Found Scribe: AmeliaBR
Inferring ScribeNick: AmeliaBR
Default Present: Fred, AmeliaBR, chaals, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, shepazu, LJ
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Present: Fred AmeliaBR chaals Rich_Schwerdtfeger shepazu LJWatson Jason
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Found Date: 04 Dec 2015
Guessing minutes URL: [24]http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-minutes.
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People with action items: chaals fred

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2015/12/04-svg-a11y-minutes.html


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