IRC log of ua on 2015-10-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:59:22 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-ua-irc
16:59:24 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:59:24 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:59:26 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:59:26 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
16:59:27 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:59:27 [trackbot]
Date: 29 October 2015
17:01:27 [allanj]
rrsagent, set logs public
17:01:30 [Greg]
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17:07:00 [Kim]
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17:07:39 [Eric]
Eric has joined #ua
17:07:43 [allanj]
present: Jim, Jeanne, Eric, Kim
17:08:08 [allanj]
present+ Greg
17:13:19 [allanj]
topic: 3.2.2 Describe Accessibility Features
17:13:51 [allanj]
http://w3c.github.io/UAAG-Implementations/Implementations-by-feature
17:15:23 [allanj]
gl: this is tough to test or come up with implementation. need a list of all UAAG features
17:18:59 [allanj]
eh: what does it mean to be explained in the interface?
17:19:27 [allanj]
... is the label enough? what is the minimal amount of information?
17:20:14 [allanj]
kp: point out the structure. here is help page, keyboard shortcut page, settings page. would that be enough.
17:21:36 [Kim]
Firefox Documentation:
17:21:37 [Kim]
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/firefox/get-started
17:21:39 [Kim]
Firefox Keyboard Shortcuts list:
17:21:40 [Kim]
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts-perform-firefox-tasks-quickly?redirectlocale=en-US&as=u&redirectslug=Keyboard+shortcuts&utm_source=inproduct#w_current-page
17:22:35 [allanj]
chrome documentation:
17:22:37 [allanj]
https://support.google.com/chrome/?p=help&ctx=menu#topic=3227046
17:22:49 [allanj]
chrome keyboard shortcuts:
17:23:19 [allanj]
https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/157179?hl=en
17:23:59 [allanj]
gl: if documentation meets 3.2.3 then it will meet 3.2.2
17:24:59 [allanj]
gl: still a large task. There are lots of features to test
17:25:18 [allanj]
Note: we did not test every feature to document implementation
17:25:41 [allanj]
Scriibe: allanj
17:25:47 [allanj]
scribe: allanj
17:26:06 [allanj]
s/Scriibe: allanj/
17:27:19 [allanj]
RESOLUTION: for 3.2.2 and 3.2.3
17:27:20 [allanj]
Note: we did not test every feature to document implementation
17:27:22 [allanj]
Firefox Documentation:
17:27:23 [allanj]
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/firefox/get-started
17:27:25 [allanj]
Firefox Keyboard Shortcuts list:
17:27:26 [allanj]
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts-perform-firefox-tasks-quickly?redirectlocale=en-US&as=u&redirectslug=Keyboard+shortcuts&utm_source=inproduct#w_current-page
17:27:28 [allanj]
chrome documentation:
17:27:29 [allanj]
https://support.google.com/chrome/?p=help&ctx=menu#topic=3227046
17:27:31 [allanj]
chrome keyboard shortcuts:
17:27:32 [allanj]
https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/157179?hl=en
17:28:11 [allanj]
topic: 3.2.4 Changes Between Versions:
17:30:02 [allanj]
ja: UAs used to do this, now with auto updates perhaps they don't provide feature changes as much?
17:31:21 [allanj]
chrome: log of all revisions by version http://build.chromium.org/f/chromium/perf/dashboard/ui/changelog.html?url=/trunk/src&range=44202:43900&mode=html
17:32:29 [allanj]
http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/
17:32:39 [Kim]
Firefox changelogs for each version:
17:32:41 [Kim]
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/releases/
17:34:01 [allanj]
RESOLUTION: for 3.2.4
17:34:03 [allanj]
chrome: log of all revisions by version
17:34:04 [allanj]
http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/
17:34:06 [allanj]
Firefox changelogs for each version:
17:34:07 [allanj]
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/releases/
17:34:27 [allanj]
topic: 3.2.5 Centralized View:
17:36:49 [Kim]
Documentation of accessibility features in Firefox
17:36:50 [Kim]
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/accessibility-features-firefox-make-firefox-and-we
17:37:00 [allanj]
chrome: accessibility features for all products (chrome listed on the page)
17:37:03 [allanj]
https://www.google.com/accessibility/all-products-features.html
17:37:43 [allanj]
RESOLUTION:
17:37:45 [allanj]
Documentation of accessibility features in Firefox
17:37:46 [allanj]
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/accessibility-features-firefox-make-firefox-and-we
17:37:48 [allanj]
chrome accessibility features for all products (chrome listed on the page)
17:37:49 [allanj]
https://www.google.com/accessibility/all-products-features.html
17:39:46 [allanj]
kp: apple missing stuff...thinks it is on the individual machine, no on the web.
17:40:15 [allanj]
... things that apply to the machine also apply to all applications
17:41:31 [allanj]
gl: but there are unique accessibility features in safari that are not documented (or we can't find it)
17:41:39 [allanj]
topic: 3.3.1 Avoid Unpredictable Focus:
17:45:20 [allanj]
gl: autofocus move in form fields (ssn, or phone)
17:45:37 [allanj]
kp: many cases on websites that disrupt interaction
17:47:24 [allanj]
can block autofocus with Greasemonkey
17:56:19 [allanj]
RESOLUTION: 3.3.1 greasemonkey or something similar for IE, Chrome, Safari, FF is a possible solution. No other implementation or extensions were found.
17:56:50 [allanj]
topic: 4.1.1 Support Platform Accessibility Services:
17:58:21 [allanj]
RESOLUTION: Chrome, IE, Firefox, Safari do this
17:58:35 [allanj]
topic: 4.1.2 Expose Basic Properties
18:01:18 [allanj]
what about selection?
18:01:53 [allanj]
screen readers know when something is selected. but can't find any information in windows Inspect tool about selection
18:03:36 [allanj]
we are sure about all but 'selection', the browser knows what is selected because you can copy from a browser
18:05:33 [allanj]
selection is covered in accessibility mapping http://www.w3.org/TR/core-aam-1.1/#mapping_events_selection
18:07:08 [allanj]
though this is selection from a menu item, it is not selection of text in a paragraph
18:08:22 [allanj]
RESOLUTION: 4.1.2 Chrome, IE, Firefox, Safari support all except selection. Need further investigation on selection
18:08:34 [allanj]
topic: 4.1.3 Provide Equivalent Accessible Alternatives:
18:11:07 [allanj]
gl: first example in reference document is alternative way of doing something, not an alternative to the API
18:11:22 [allanj]
... the second example is better
18:18:38 [allanj]
gl: platform AAPI is not about drag and drop, providing an alternative way of doing the same task is a good thing, but does not apply to AAPI. the SC is poorly worded. The intent provides much better explanation, but seems unrelated to AApi
18:19:15 [allanj]
... don't have a real life example, of a UI element not supporting AAPI, and the browser provided a work around
18:23:08 [allanj]
gl: when a browser can't provide programmatic access to an interface control, it must provide another method method of access.
18:23:55 [allanj]
ja: anything on mobile?
18:24:34 [allanj]
kp: most things...no selection, no controls
18:26:24 [allanj]
... siri is starting to add some functionality, like start an application. but backspace 3 characters...no, must say backspace 3 separate times.
18:28:10 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:28:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:28:34 [allanj]
rrsagent, set logs public
18:28:56 [allanj]
chair: Jim
18:30:50 [Greg]
Example: A web browser [Internet Explorer] allows the user to choose default colors for text, background, and so forth, using a color picker control in which the user can click on any pixel in a field of overlapping gradients. This control cannot be mapped to any standard control, and thus cannot be easily exposed through MSAA or similar accessibility platform services. Therefore screenreaders and
18:30:51 [Greg]
other assistive technology cannot explain the control to the user nor facilitate its use. To make the same functionality available to a wider range of users, the same dialog box that displays the color picker also allows the user to see and edit numeric values for hue, saturation, luminosity, etc.
18:32:18 [allanj]
gl: its there for graphic designers, but helps people with disabilities...a win, win
18:40:30 [allanj]
RESOLUTION: 4.1.3 if the user agent has no custom controls it passes by default.
18:41:40 [Greg]
That is, no custom controls that cannot be mapped to one or more standard controls, and thus cannot be exposed through the platform accessibility API (e.g. a gradient color picker cannot be exposed through MSAA).
18:43:42 [Greg]
IE uses a gradient color picker, so 4.1.3 requires it to provide an alternative, and it does so with a set of numeric fields. Firefox, on the other hand, uses a set of discrete color buttons for choosing color, which can easily be exposed through the platform accessibility API, and therefore is an N/A for 4.1.3 (at least for this particular set of controls).
18:44:22 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:44:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:46:09 [allanj]
s/must say backspace 3 separate times/can't say backspace at all,
18:46:52 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:46:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:47:00 [Eric]
Accidentally dropped off when trying to unmute. Take care!
18:48:51 [allanj]
chair: jim
18:48:54 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:48:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-ua-minutes.html allanj
19:32:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua