See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 20 August 2015
<janina> trackbot, who's here?
<trackbot> Sorry, janina, I don't understand 'trackbot, who's here?'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
<janina> OK, Shane, thanks!
<scribe> scribenick: LJWatson
JS: I won't be available next week. Any objections to skipping for one week?
JB: It's W3C Geek Week, so less
availability from W3C staff too.
... Do we have any pressing work?
JS: We'll cancel the call.
<Judy> All: No one responds with any urgent work.
RS: We have a timeout issue in
the testing scripts.
... Have reported a couple of bugs to Dominic.
... Have updated the bug information as requested by Paul.
JS: Do we know when PLH is back?
RS: Also asked Mark s for time to look at the test harness, since he created it. Waiting for a reply.
JB: PLH is back next week.
JS: Suspect nothing to add without Chaals.
JS: There is a desire from the
dPub IG to be able to annotate any element in an HTML page
(HTML is used in eBooks). @longdesc doesn't quite meet their
use cases, but it's close.
... The ARIA is doing due dilligence on possible solutions that
may not require changes to the ARIA spec. Like <details>
for example.
... Would be important to add @src to details> for this to
work.
... Minutes from the ARIA TF call last week are above (in the
agenda item).
RS: We don't really need the @src
in <details> because you can put an <iframe> inside
<details> and this can take @src.
... We have everything from a plumbing perspective, in
<details> and <summary>.
... There is a visibility issue, but we'll need input from CSS
WG to address that.
RS: MS has said they don't like the UI (taken from the tweet linked above).
PC: Who were you talking to at MS?
RS: Rob Sinclair. We have a follow up meeting next week - but these meetings go beyond the <details> and <summary> conversation.
PC: Suggest that conversation continues.
rresgent, make minutes
RS: Mozilla is just a matter of
back/forth about how to implement this solution.
... Posted the bug to the ARIA TF a while ago. Can't find the
link right now.
JB: Is this something where
direct discussion might keep us from an "incident loop"?
... Based on the TF call it seems that details/summary was well
received, but if it isn't liked by other implementors...
RS: I need to identify the reason
why other implementors haven't implemented it yet.
... We have two implementations of details/summary, but that
isn't enough for this.
JB: We have already invested massive amounts of time on @describedat only to find serious objections from one particular implementor.
RS: One thing @describedat does not do is make itself available to all users.
+1 to Rich on availability to all users.
RS: If we discover
details/summary isn't viable, we may have to go back to
@describedat though.
... I want to exhaust other possibilities if I can first
though.
<Zakim> janina, you wanted to talk about hidden vs visible details, html history vs dpub req
JS: Trying to recall the history
behind the visibility of details/summary.
... Recalling the table summary discussion.
... One complaint against table summary was that it was hidden
to all except certain AT users.
... When talking to dPub, there was a requirement for the
mechanism to be hidden from view by default.
... So now we're looking at a media query that would
intentionally keep something hidden by default.
RS: <details> is an HTML element that represents a common pattern - a button that opens/closes content. If it isn't visible, how do you know it can be clicked on?
JB: Discussion a couple of years
ago, about the auxilliary benefits for people with disabilities
other than sight related.
... There was support for the ability to make such things
visible.
... The need for content to be available to everyone comes up
against the requirement of discoverability.
... If you find a details/summary widget, how do you know it
contains a description?
<Judy> scribe: Judy
Leonie: Isn't that what hte
summary element would do, would in partnership with
details
... to let you know that's the info that's there
<LJWatson> RS: The publishers would have to put something in the book to indicate more information was available.
<scribe> scribe: LJWatson
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: It almost has to
be under author control. This was another issue with
@describedat - dPub didn't want the UA to be responsible,
especially not through plugins.
... So we could use a CSS media query to render the
details/summary widget visible (or not).
... Apple suggested the possibility of an OS level setting that
could be turned on, to say "I want additional information to be
visible when it's available".
... So it's under user control.
JB: That's more for the developer to implement?
RS: Yes.
JS: We'll need good authoring
support.
... We're also looking at using ARIA roles to help with
disambiguation.
RS: Yes, but we really need to move fast on details/summary to hit the ARIA 1.1 schedule.
JS: A resolution people can live would be good.
JS: No update without Liam or Shane. Scheduled for next week though.
LW: Nothing to report
JS: The Web Payments people asked us to review their proposed charter.
<Judy> scribe: Judy
<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015Aug/0022.html
Leonie: there was mention of the
benefits of avoiding market fragmentation
... accessibility could be added to that list
... we could change that to "...accessible user
experiences"
... and in section 3.2 optional deliverables, recommended
(car?) payments @@
... could mention digital debit pool accessible to users
[these are in the LJW's email]
<scribe> scribe: LJWatson
JS: Think those are nice suggestions.
JB: Who'll send them over to WG?
JS: I can bundle them up and send them over.
LW: Think the AC charter review ends in the next week or so.
JS: We also need to think about user requirements.
LW: Nothing to report.
JS: Can someone open the actions?
LW: As I recall the people with open actions are not on the call.
PC: 9 open actions.
... They're all on Cynthia, John F, Chaals and Steve F.
... Several are overdue or will be by the time of our next
meeting in September.
JS: No meeting next week.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/ehaust/exhaust/ Found ScribeNick: LJWatson Found Scribe: Judy Inferring ScribeNick: Judy Found Scribe: LJWatson Inferring ScribeNick: LJWatson Found Scribe: Judy Inferring ScribeNick: Judy Found Scribe: LJWatson Inferring ScribeNick: LJWatson Scribes: Judy, LJWatson ScribeNicks: LJWatson, Judy Present: Janina paulc LJWatson Joanmarie_Diggs Judy IanPouncey Rich_Schwerdtfeger Found Date: 20 Aug 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/08/20-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]