See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 30 July 2015
<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0088.html
<scribe> scribe: MichielBijl
Jemma: I work for UI, my first
time here
... I work with Jon
MichaelC: received comments that
ARIA should not focus on accessibility API's; just API's in
general
... drafting a response to Charles
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0049.html
janina: ask DPUB to update document
Rich: what I want to ask to group, is be pragmatic about; don't want it to be a emotional discussion
richardschwerdtfeger: Apple had publishers coming in that said they need this
janina: we will be very formal
about this disposition
... I would propose adding the document from DPUB if we keep
aria-describedat
mgylling: everything you said
about publishers showing up on the 13th is true
... we need it
... we don't want to be the ones that potentially stall the
aria progress
janina: we have talked about that
possibility
... ARIA 1.1 is on schedule
<clown> issue-633?
<trackbot> issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633
<clown> action-1688?
<trackbot> action-1688 -- James Nurthen to Draft proposal for aria-interactive -- due 2015-10-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1688
jamesn: I'm on vacation, so cannot push action forward
richardschwerdtfeger: let me have
a look at it
... I'm gonna put on the 23rd of september
issue-397
<trackbot> issue-397 -- Need a way to specify an indeterminate set size -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/397
<clown> action-1488
<trackbot> action-1488 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose spec text for allowing aria-setsize="999+" format change for issue-397 -- due 2015-07-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1488
MichaelC: there is note that went privately to richardschwerdtfeger and me
richardschwerdtfeger: I'm going to forward it to the list
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1488/aria/aria.html#aria-setsize
Joseph: suffix with a + sign to indicate the setsize is at least that amount
richardschwerdtfeger: where do
you map the +?
... AT's have to handle this too
... they can't announce percentage of progress
... for the + syntax, we have to change it from an integer to a
string
... how big of an issue is this? (for API's)
<clown> issue-397?
<trackbot> issue-397 -- Need a way to specify an indeterminate set size -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/397
richardschwerdtfeger: we can do, no question
Joseph: you can put it in the spec, but it's at risk if we can't find mappings
richardschwerdtfeger: the apple platform does not have a object mapping
Joseph: James Craig is not
against it
... is it mapped to AXValue?
... oh it's AXARIASetSize
richardschwerdtfeger: to me this comes down to an API mapping issue
If an unknown set size exceeds a known and meaningful amount, authors may append a plus sign ("+") to the value to communicate the set size is at least that amount. Otherwise, authors should set the value of aria-setsize to -1.
richardschwerdtfeger: are people okay with this?
Joseph: Cynthia said the IE team
likes the setsize="-1" notation
... that to me means that they don't like the + notation
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#progressbar
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1488/aria/aria.html#progressbar
If the progressbar is describing the loading progress of a particular region of a page, the author SHOULD use aria-describedby to point to the status, and set the aria-busy attribute to true on the region until it is finished loading
jamesn: prefer to say we have at least X
richardschwerdtfeger: does anyone
object to setsize="-1"?
... the resolution is that we will specify an indeterminate by
setting setsize to -1
RESOLUTION: we will specify an indeterminate by setting setsize to -1
<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: We will not be supporting set sizes 999+ for sizes of at least that size for ARIA 1.1
action-1498
<trackbot> action-1498 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Draft "term" role (related to html dfn/dt elements) in addition to the 1.0 "definition" (equiv to html dd element) -- due 2015-07-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1498
richardschwerdtfeger: using the term role on a link will mean that the link role is lost
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1498/aria/aria.html#term
<richardschwerdtfeger> [ARIA 1.1] A word or phrase with a corresponding definition. See related definition.
<richardschwerdtfeger> The term role is used to explicitly identify a word or phrase for which a definition has been provided by the author or is expected to be provided by the user.
<richardschwerdtfeger> Authors SHOULD NOT use the term role on interactive elements such as links because doing so could prevent users of assistive technologies from interacting with those elements.
Joseph: the problem is, we had a definition role, but no term role
richardschwerdtfeger: we need a link to definition in the second paragraph
Joseph: the term is interactive, and if you click it the definition shows
janina: I like that clicking the term shows the definition
richardschwerdtfeger: what we're saying is that the definition must immediately follow the term
Joseph: it's like dt and dd
... do we need a definition list role?
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1498/aria/aria.html#definition
jongund: why not use term and term-item?
Joseph: role definition should have a aria-labelledby on it
richardschwerdtfeger: then should it be in a list? You can have it anywhere
jongund: could I use an aria-label on the definition?
richardschwerdtfeger: you cannot
because you don't have a visual link between the term and the
definition
... the term and the definition don't have to be side by
side
fesch: what happens when you have multiple definitions pointed to the same term
Joseph: that is allowed with dt's and dd's in the HTML spec
<richardschwerdtfeger> Proposal: we accept Joanie’s text for action 1498 with the caviat that the second paragraph link the definition text with the definition role and that in the definition role the aria-labelledy SHOULD point to an element with a role of “term”
MichielBijl: mgylling: what about aria-describedBy on the term?
Joseph: you could do that
richardschwerdtfeger: the author could screw up
mgylling: I wasn't saying we should have both, just wondering
<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Accept Rich’s proposal and jave Joanie make the changes and close out action 1498 and the associated issue
action-1657
<trackbot> action-1657 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Make aria-level a required attribute for role=“heading” -- due 2015-06-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1657
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#heading
Where it states: "If headings are organized into a logical outline, the aria-level attribute can be used to indicate the nesting level."
richardschwerdtfeger: all we have to do, is make it a required attribute
Joseph: it's required in the characteristics table
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#heading
A heading for a section of the page.
Often, heading elements will be referenced with the aria-labelledby attribute of the section for which they serve as a heading. If headings are organized into a logical outline, the aria-level attribute is used to indicate the nesting level.
richardschwerdtfeger: resolution: accept joanie's text
RESOLUTION: accept joanie's text, and close the action and issue
issue-736
<trackbot> issue-736 -- aria-label overriding listitem and treeitem content when need to know content is valuable -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/736
richardschwerdtfeger: in other words, the content is important
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0097.html
richardschwerdtfeger: how do you think we should approach this one?
<clown> http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/ListItemsWithLabels.html
Joseph: I setup a use case, with
and without an aria-label
... if you put a label on it, the name is changed, but the
content is still available in AI2 and ??
richardschwerdtfeger: by putting an aria-label on it should the content be ignored?
Joseph: take a look at my usecase
richardschwerdtfeger: what if the additional content inside the list item is important?
Joseph: it's still available
richardschwerdtfeger: but how do users know that they should drill into the list item?
bgaraventa1979: we have the same
problem with aria grid, if you have a grid cell with a list
with 200+ items; you don't want all that information to be
announced
... there is no limit to how much content you can stuff into a
list item
richardschwerdtfeger: would you want to know if the content inside has additional value?
Joseph: if you don't put the label on, the name is taken from the content
jamesn: that is in the spec
... if it's the same content, it's an author error; not our
problem, right?
bgaraventa1979: if you put aria-label on it, AT hides the content
jamesn: that is how it's supposed to be
Joseph: the AT hides the content, it's available in the a11y API's
richardschwerdtfeger: I'd like people to think about this for a week
jamesn: a tweet is a good example, you want the author and tweet text to be announced at the list item level; you don't want the reply, etc buttons announced
richardschwerdtfeger: let's take this up next week
Still says -DRAFT-
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/John/Jon/ Succeeded: s/DPUb/DPUB/ Succeeded: s/Heds/Heads/ Succeeded: s/dt an dd/dt and dd/ Succeeded: s/trunk/text/ Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Found Scribe: MichielBijl Inferring ScribeNick: MichielBijl Present: Bryan_Garaventa JamesN Jemma Joseph_Scheuhammer Markus MichaelC Michiel_Bijl Rich fesch janina jongund Regrets: Joanmarie_Diggs Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0088.html Found Date: 30 Jul 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]