IRC log of csvw on 2015-07-01
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:34:37 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #csvw
- 13:34:37 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/01-csvw-irc
- 13:34:39 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 13:34:39 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #csvw
- 13:34:41 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be CSVW
- 13:34:41 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 13:34:42 [trackbot]
- Meeting: CSV on the Web Working Group Teleconference
- 13:34:42 [trackbot]
- Date: 01 July 2015
- 13:49:39 [danbri]
- danbri has joined #csvw
- 13:52:11 [danbri]
- who is around for a call?
- 13:55:33 [ivan]
- I am here
- 13:55:43 [ivan]
- zakim is just a bot:-(
- 13:58:13 [gkellogg]
- gkellogg has joined #csvw
- 13:58:55 [JeniT_]
- JeniT_ has joined #csvw
- 13:59:08 [JeniT_]
- I am here
- 13:59:20 [ivan]
- That makes the three of us already:-)
- 14:00:02 [danbri]
- webex
- 14:00:07 [danbri]
- step one: remember annoying company name
- 14:00:13 [gkellogg]
- I;m here, but getting the “meeting canceled” problem on webex
- 14:00:39 [danbri]
- trying the android app, it remembers no meeting info from prev usage :|
- 14:00:44 [ivan]
- dan, jeni: https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/WebEx
- 14:00:54 [danbri]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-csv-wg/2015Apr/0078.html
- 14:01:07 [danbri]
- step 2: search mail for: "from: ivan webex"
- 14:01:12 [danbri]
- step 3: ask ivan :)
- 14:04:41 [JeniT]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/631
- 14:05:42 [danbri]
- +1
- 14:05:58 [gkellogg]
- +1
- 14:07:30 [danbri]
- jenit: can close #631 #634
- 14:07:47 [JeniT]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/632
- 14:07:53 [danbri]
- leaves us with #632
- 14:08:46 [danbri]
- can we change default of trim to true?
- 14:08:54 [danbri]
- jenit: doesn't matter as non normative parsing stuff anyway
- 14:10:36 [danbri]
- jenit: q of whether the data protocols thing from Open Knowledge that has trim in it
- 14:10:42 [danbri]
- ah no it doesn't
- 14:10:45 [danbri]
- so i am happy
- 14:10:59 [danbri]
- rrsagent, pointer
- 14:10:59 [RRSAgent]
- See http://www.w3.org/2015/07/01-csvw-irc#T14-10-59
- 14:11:20 [danbri]
- rrsagent, please make logs public
- 14:11:54 [JeniT]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aopen+label%3A%22For+LCCR%22+-label%3A%22Use+Case+Document%22+-label%3A%22Test+suite%22
- 14:11:56 [danbri]
- gkellogg: gigantic test case repositories are my destiny
- 14:12:08 [danbri]
- jenit: text direction…
- 14:12:20 [danbri]
- …+ others have pull requests in flight
- 14:12:34 [danbri]
- r12a = richard ishida
- 14:12:44 [danbri]
- waiting on review/responses
- 14:13:06 [danbri]
- i.e. https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/620 https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/618 https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/617
- 14:13:11 [danbri]
- ivan: #524 can be closed?
- 14:13:33 [danbri]
- resolved unanimously to close
- 14:13:49 [ivan]
- rrsagent, pointer?
- 14:13:49 [RRSAgent]
- See http://www.w3.org/2015/07/01-csvw-irc#T14-13-49
- 14:14:11 [danbri]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/555 Non-standard well-known location processing
- 14:14:25 [danbri]
- gkellogg: Martin Duerst had a response to Mark's point
- 14:14:49 [danbri]
- … ah no, reading an old mail.
- 14:15:11 [danbri]
- (mail of 19th)
- 14:15:41 [danbri]
- ivan: i offered it as an at risk feature
- 14:19:36 [danbri]
- jenit: expectation is that any impl that isn't ignoring ALL of the metadata discovery will do this…
- 14:19:44 [danbri]
- … if you're not providing overriding
- 14:20:32 [danbri]
- gkellogg: if csv becomes important for seo purposes and if google etc doesn't look in these other places then it won't get used
- 14:20:58 [danbri]
- people won't put things at well-known other than our defaults
- 14:21:52 [danbri]
- jenit: in order to move us on, 2 pieces within #555 … there is the issue about whether we have this .well-known and …
- 14:22:26 [danbri]
- … our current position (merged in) is that we use this for metadata discovery but we have labelled it as 'at risk' with wording asking for whether it is useful and represents impl difficulties
- 14:23:02 [danbri]
- danbri: that will help me get reviews from search engine world
- 14:23:12 [danbri]
- jenit: tag and david disagree
- 14:23:41 [danbri]
- … I think we say the wording goes in. David may then collect impl feeedback/reviews ...
- 14:24:08 [ivan]
- +1
- 14:24:12 [gkellogg]
- +1
- 14:24:18 [danbri]
- +1
- 14:24:58 [danbri]
- gkellogg: also the aspect of using HTML as a discovery path
- 14:25:22 [jtandy]
- +1
- 14:25:28 [danbri]
- jenit: let's discuss now
- 14:25:34 [JeniT]
- +1
- 14:25:40 [ivan]
- rrsagent, pointer?
- 14:25:40 [RRSAgent]
- See http://www.w3.org/2015/07/01-csvw-irc#T14-25-40
- 14:25:45 [danbri]
- (i.e. unanimous amongst attendees)
- 14:25:53 [gkellogg]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/pull/627
- 14:25:58 [danbri]
- #627
- 14:26:12 [danbri]
- gregg put text about identifying metadata against a CSV via an HTML document
- 14:26:19 [danbri]
- essentially embedding the metadata in a script tag
- 14:26:29 [danbri]
- jenit: i feel quite uncomfortable about this being a new thing we add now
- 14:26:48 [danbri]
- … something like this should be a separate note or something that comes on top of or addition to what we have as spec
- 14:27:15 [danbri]
- (kicked off webex)
- 14:27:23 [danbri]
- (i.e. no audio …redialing)
- 14:28:40 [danbri]
- ivan: gregg, details i don't remember, … but yes, we can have json-ld in a <script> within HTML … but what is the base URI rule?
- 14:29:07 [danbri]
- gregg: this doesn't deal with tables within documents
- 14:29:20 [danbri]
- any table URL would be expected to identify a CSV file
- 14:29:46 [danbri]
- base used
- 14:30:00 [danbri]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#embedding-json-ld-in-html-documents
- 14:32:09 [danbri]
- jtandy: i built one of these things for camborne weather data example
- 14:32:27 [danbri]
- could we in the same text for avoiding wellknown, mention that this is an alternative
- 14:32:35 [danbri]
- though i hesitate about entangling them
- 14:40:03 [danbri]
- ...
- 14:40:06 [danbri]
- jenit: #609
- 14:40:12 [JeniT]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/609
- 14:40:13 [danbri]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/609
- 14:40:28 [danbri]
- jenit: i've not tried to get it registered (yet). I could do that or we could decide something else.
- 14:40:44 [danbri]
- … issue is URLs vs media formats within template format descriptions
- 14:41:01 [danbri]
- the TAG really wanted us to use media types rather than URLs, since 3rd parties can register media types
- 14:41:21 [danbri]
- ivan was concerned about time it takes to generate media types
- 14:41:35 [danbri]
- i proposed a test to see if we could get it done within a week
- 14:41:38 [danbri]
- but i didn't
- 14:41:53 [danbri]
- jtandy: the week included your time not just theirs
- 14:42:00 [danbri]
- jenit: fair enough
- 14:42:41 [danbri]
- ivan: I looked into this for csvm and so it was a bit easier as a w3c person
- 14:42:49 [danbri]
- but a random member of the public will find it much harder
- 14:43:08 [JeniT]
- https://www.iana.org/form/media-types
- 14:43:09 [danbri]
- when i did it, for some obscure reason, some parts didn't go through well due to mail issues. Yakov got it through.
- 14:43:18 [JeniT]
- got to through searching “register media type"
- 14:44:13 [danbri]
- dan: [stuff we already have done]
- 14:44:40 [danbri]
- jenit: TAG's pushback was that we are defining refs to media types, and the right thing to do/use is the media type type of string, not a url
- 14:44:50 [danbri]
- ditto numbers, dates etc.
- 14:45:04 [danbri]
- native,understood,recognised etc rather than wrapping it in a URI
- 14:46:39 [danbri]
- ivan: I would (informally) object to using media types
- 14:47:03 [danbri]
- zakim, who is making noise?
- 14:47:03 [Zakim]
- sorry, danbri, I don't know what conference this is
- 14:49:42 [JeniT]
- PROPOSAL: We should use media types rather than URLs when referring to formats from transformation descriptions
- 14:49:54 [JeniT]
- +1
- 14:50:31 [ivan]
- (informally) object (-1): for most of the average developers the registration is too arcane and complicated; it will not happen...
- 14:50:37 [jtandy]
- -1 because I think that this will add blockage to people describing their templates correctly- they will use a more generic media type and use the title as an identifier instead (which is wrong)
- 14:51:01 [gkellogg]
- -1: This is too high a barrier for general usage, and media types have long been missused. URIs can identify anything, including media types, and this is consistent with being a W3C spec.
- 14:51:03 [danbri]
- -1 # I don't believe it plausible that relevant types will get registered, and an unknown but derferencable URL is more useful than a made up pseudo-mimetype string.
- 14:51:24 [JeniT]
- PROPOSAL: We continue to use URLs rather than media types in transformation descriptions
- 14:51:26 [JeniT]
- +1
- 14:51:30 [jtandy]
- +1
- 14:51:31 [gkellogg]
- +1
- 14:51:31 [JeniT]
- s/+1/+0/
- 14:51:31 [danbri]
- +1
- 14:51:39 [ivan]
- rrsagent, pointer?
- 14:51:39 [RRSAgent]
- See http://www.w3.org/2015/07/01-csvw-irc#T14-51-39
- 14:52:29 [danbri]
- other issues...
- 14:52:41 [JeniT]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/46
- 14:52:47 [danbri]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/46
- 14:53:44 [danbri]
- jenit takes editor action on this.
- 14:53:52 [danbri]
- Only other LCCR issues are UC doc + test suite
- 14:54:58 [danbri]
- jenit: I can spend next tues to go thru that
- 14:55:14 [danbri]
- gkellogg: I need to add 1 more test for a non standard location
- 14:55:31 [danbri]
- jtandy, /me comments aren't included in the minutes
- 14:55:42 [danbri]
- jtandy noted: one test still not done: table group incompatibility
- 14:56:40 [gkellogg]
- {+url}.json
- 14:56:41 [gkellogg]
- csvm.json
- 14:57:22 [danbri]
- jenit: what needs doing re chairing w.r.t. WG extensions
- 14:58:21 [danbri]
- ivan: situation is: we have to extend the WG charter because we are close to the end, and that has to be 1st discussed at W3M. So what I already discussed with our domain lead, Ralph, is that he'll start discussion in W3M for an extension. I gave him an overview of where we are. Not this week, they have a f2f, but hope they'll do so in W3M meeting in exactly 1 week.
- 14:59:13 [danbri]
- … this means that as we go to publication of CR, we'll get the extension. We agreed here to give ample time e.g. to end of feb, so we don't have to go back again for another. I hope that will be done, but knowing the timetable of Ralph, … it might be helpful if Jeni replies to mail from Ivan cc Ralph
- 14:59:33 [danbri]
- …. this is one part. The other is, 1st of all we have to decide when we think we can publish.
- 15:00:34 [danbri]
- Timing issues. Since this is a last call CR transition, it requires a transition call to be scheduled. The other problem is that I planned vacations week of July 13 i.e. in roughly 2 weeks. If we think we can go to a transition call, with final docs, … next week [not Use Cases as not a REC track doc, but including Tests] …
- 15:01:27 [danbri]
- ivan: i can check Phillipe's calendar. The publication itself should happen week after when I may be not around. WG has been great at publishing pubrules-ready docs in Github, so they may be able to take it directly without Ivan, or maybe with some other help
- 15:01:41 [danbri]
- jenit: could we pub the week after?
- 15:01:48 [danbri]
- ivan: i'm off for 3-4 weeks (hopefully...)
- 15:02:20 [danbri]
- ivan: if we agreed on 1 day when i'd help, I'd likely do it for a beer, since the docs are usually not too messy
- 15:02:31 [danbri]
- … am more worried about the transition call as this requires some preparation
- 15:02:46 [danbri]
- jenit: let's discuss by email, decide next week on pub dates?
- 15:02:57 [danbri]
- ivan: we have to decide on the transition call, that's the difficult one
- 15:03:06 [danbri]
- adjourned
- 15:37:38 [JeniT]
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- 17:01:18 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #csvw