IRC log of svg on 2015-05-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:28:14 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:28:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-irc
20:28:16 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:28:16 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
20:28:18 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
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ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()4:30PM already started
20:28:19 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:28:19 [trackbot]
Date: 14 May 2015
20:30:33 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:30:34 [heycam]
Zakim, [ is me
20:30:34 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
20:30:38 [heycam]
Zakim, who is on the call?
20:30:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Thomas_Smailus, heycam
20:30:42 [AmeliaBR]
AmeliaBR has joined #svg
20:31:24 [Zakim]
+??P9
20:31:37 [AmeliaBR]
zakim, ??P9 is me
20:31:37 [Zakim]
+AmeliaBR; got it
20:31:57 [Zakim]
+??P10
20:32:04 [stakagi]
zakim, ??P10 is me
20:32:04 [Zakim]
+stakagi; got it
20:33:23 [heycam]
Chair: Cameron
20:33:30 [heycam]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015May/0019.html
20:34:04 [Zakim]
+??P0
20:34:14 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:34:32 [ed]
Zakim, [IP is me
20:34:32 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
20:34:44 [nikos_]
nikos_ has joined #svg
20:34:45 [Zakim]
+Doug_Schepers
20:36:27 [Zakim]
+??P3
20:36:41 [nikos_]
Zakim, who is on the call?
20:36:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Thomas_Smailus, heycam, AmeliaBR, stakagi, ??P0, ed, Doug_Schepers, ??P3
20:36:46 [nikos_]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
20:36:46 [Zakim]
+nikos_; got it
20:36:57 [AmeliaBR]
All about Web Ex: https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExBestPractices
20:37:25 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
20:37:32 [Tav]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
20:37:32 [Zakim]
+Tav; got it
20:39:01 [heycam]
Zakim, pick a scribe
20:39:01 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [Microsoft]
20:39:09 [heycam]
Zakim, pick a scribe
20:39:09 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Tav
20:40:53 [Tav]
scribenick: Tav
20:41:16 [Tav]
Topic: Switching to webex
20:41:51 [Tav]
shepazu: Our phone lines die in late June. When do we want to transition?
20:42:09 [Tav]
heycam: Next week?
20:42:17 [Tav]
shepazu: Not here next week, better week after.
20:42:34 [AmeliaBR]
https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExBestPractices
20:43:04 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: TIps for how to use webex... not connection between IRC and phone bots.
20:43:40 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: can't type in IRC to mute, etc. won't recognize phone numbers but should be more reliable
20:44:22 [Tav]
Smailus: Will we be able to do screen sharing?
20:44:42 [Tav]
shepazu: It can but isn't considered to be best practices at the moment.
20:45:16 [Tav]
Smailus: Can you send out info so we can get setup? Going through firewalls etc...
20:45:35 [Tav]
shepazu: Can call in or connect through computer. Sound quality OK for both.
20:46:11 [Tav]
Topic: SVG 2 Issues
20:46:49 [Tav]
heycam: We are looking at appendices?
20:46:54 [heycam]
https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assessment
20:48:01 [Rossen]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/svgdom.html#SVGObjectInitialization
20:49:34 [Tav]
Done
20:49:52 [Rossen]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/implnote.html#issue1
20:50:42 [Tav]
Rossen: HTML5 svg documents stop rendering...
20:51:22 [Tav]
Rossen: Sounds like a bit of rewriting, not really something for discussion.
20:52:00 [Tav]
heycam: We know we need to update error processing so we don't blow-up with small errors.
20:52:38 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: Specific issue are wording. More general question is do we want to move to a more forgiving error handling?
20:53:06 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: Worry about big changes first... working later.
20:53:39 [AmeliaBR]
s/working/wording/
20:53:51 [Tav]
Rossen: Whole chapter needs editorial work.
20:54:02 [Tav]
heycam: This chapter hasn't seen much attention.
20:54:27 [Tav]
Rossen: Most of the issues just need someone to do them.
20:54:27 [ed]
I don't think this appendix really describes what current implementations do in any case, so "requirements"
20:54:51 [Tav]
heycam: Are you going to look into updating error processing?
20:55:13 [Tav]
Rossen: Current wording doesn't align with DOM error processing.
20:55:24 [Tav]
heycam: Are you willing to do that?
20:55:29 [Tav]
Rossen: Yes.
20:56:34 [Rossen]
action - Bogdan to attempt to align Error processing appendix with DOM/CSS error processing and recovery
20:56:34 [trackbot]
Error finding '-'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users>.
20:56:49 [heycam]
action: Bogdan to attempt to align Error processing appendix with DOM/CSS error processing and recovery
20:56:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3791 - Attempt to align error processing appendix with dom/css error processing and recovery [on Bogdan Brinza - due 2015-05-21].
20:57:29 [AmeliaBR]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/implnote.html#issue10
20:58:32 [Tav]
heycam: Interested in range-clamping...
20:59:10 [Tav]
hecam: Does CSS have rules for clamping?
20:59:55 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: Perhaps wording should be cleaned up. Main thing is don't clamp until the end... important for multi-step filter processes.
21:00:07 [Tav]
heycam: Maybe should be moved to filter spec.
21:01:23 [Tav]
heycam: Out-of-range values during calculations may be implementation dependent.
21:01:41 [Tav]
heycam: Not sure what to do with this section (C.4 Clamping...)
21:02:03 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: Hint, generally, try to preserve information as long as possible.
21:02:33 [Tav]
heycam: This is more about trying to keep in the range.... doesn't necessarily mean you should fall back to lacuna values.
21:03:36 [Tav]
heycam: We should not fallback to lacuna values as suggested in wiki.
21:04:13 [Tav]
Smailus: Does this deal with overflow on coordinates?
21:04:24 [Tav]
heycam: This is more about color value and compositing.
21:04:44 [Tav]
heycam: There are requirements somewhere about precision.
21:05:11 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: Difference between spec restrictions vs. practical limits.
21:05:52 [Tav]
Rossen: coordinates should be not be clamped...
21:06:08 [Tav]
Smailus: But we are using very large coordinates.
21:06:17 [Tav]
heycam: Is that precision vs. range.
21:06:32 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: We should have precision in this appendix.
21:06:42 [Tav]
heycam: I think it is in the next appendix.
21:06:57 [Tav]
Smailus: Precision and range are coupled so they should be talked about together.
21:06:58 [AmeliaBR]
Precision section in Ch3: https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/types.html#Precision
21:07:23 [Rossen]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/conform.html#issue1
21:08:44 [Tav]
heycam: We need somewhere to put what is allowed well now that the DTD is gone.
21:09:29 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: What we do is have categories and content models.
21:10:26 [Tav]
heycam: The blue definition boxes should include which child elements are allowed, this was taken from the DTD.
21:10:50 [Tav]
Rossen: Is the issue about collecting all the information in one place?
21:11:08 [Tav]
heycam: No, more about saying that a conforming document matches the blue boxes.
21:11:27 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: So we can just add a bullet point there saying that.
21:12:15 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: If anybody wants to compile all the blue boxes into a document, that might be a good idea.
21:12:39 [Tav]
heycam: The scripts could be tweaked to do that. If people think it is important, I can do that.
21:13:16 [Tav]
Rossen: The indices point to the information.
21:13:26 [Tav]
heycam: It is not to hard for people to find already.
21:14:34 [Tav]
heycam: The accessibility appendix, Rich was going to provide a rewrite. We'll ask him next time he's on a call.
21:15:13 [Rossen]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/eltindex.html#issue1
21:16:36 [Tav]
Rossen: Suggest to live as is... it is not an issue to include filter effects etc. here.
21:16:54 [Tav]
Tav: I strongly agree.
21:16:59 [Tav]
s/live/leave/
21:16:59 [AmeliaBR]
s/to live/to leave/
21:17:29 [ed]
+1 to keeping the elements that were moved out to other specs
21:17:36 [Tav]
Rossen: Gut feeling that this is useful for developers and not users.
21:17:57 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: People will be looking for things and be puzzled if things that were here before are no longer here.
21:19:25 [Tav]
heycam: I'll try to come up with something that will call out the things defined in other specs.. if it doesn't take too much time.
21:19:33 [Rossen]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/idlindex.html
21:20:11 [Tav]
Rossen: Remove appendix?
21:21:02 [Tav]
heycam: I can move the info.
21:21:35 [Rossen]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/feature.html
21:21:42 [Tav]
Rossen: Feature strings... everybody just returns 'true'
21:22:47 [Tav]
Rossen: Webkit code just handles just a couple of strings. You can pass bogus feature strings and it returns true.
21:23:27 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: If we remove this the we remove the idea of having a switch based on features.
21:24:19 [Tav]
Rossen: From browser point of view not so important... but non-browsers might require it.
21:25:36 [Tav]
Rossen: You can do this other ways with browsers, but taking it out of the spec could be a bit drastic as other might use it.
21:26:23 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: Because it hasn't been implement properly.. but for static viewers it is important.
21:27:02 [Tav]
heycam: Why include both parts?
21:27:31 [Tav]
Tav, for editing purposes. We want to include SVG 2 part but still include SVG 1.1 backup.
21:28:06 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: Currently used to see if foriegnObject supported.
21:28:38 [Tav]
AmeliaBR: Uses required features as required extension are completely useless.
21:32:23 [Rossen]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/changes.html
21:34:17 [Tav]
s/here/hear/
21:34:31 [Zakim]
-Thomas_Smailus
21:34:34 [Zakim]
-ed
21:34:35 [Zakim]
-stakagi
21:34:36 [Zakim]
-heycam
21:34:41 [Zakim]
-nikos_
21:34:49 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
21:34:54 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
21:35:07 [Zakim]
-AmeliaBR
21:35:13 [heycam]
heycam: anyone who has a view on what to do with the Feature Strings appendix, please send a suggestion to the list and we can discuss next week
21:35:38 [heycam]
heycam: let's try to get the "needing investigation" issues investigated in time for discussion at the F2F
21:35:38 [Tav]
Sorry, my Internet connection failed....
21:35:55 [heycam]
heycam: I will send out a link to the F2F Agenda proposals page with a reminder
21:36:24 [Tav]
heycam: Not sure how...
21:37:50 [Tav]
trackbot, end telcon
21:37:50 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
21:37:50 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Thomas_Smailus, [IPcaller], heycam, AmeliaBR, stakagi, ed, Doug_Schepers, nikos_, [Microsoft], Tav
21:37:58 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:37:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-minutes.html trackbot
21:37:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
21:37:59 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-actions.rdf :
21:37:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Bogdan to attempt to align Error processing appendix with DOM/CSS error processing and recovery [1]
21:37:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-irc#T20-56-49