W3C

- DRAFT -

Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force

27 Apr 2015

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
+1.718.618.aaaa, Lisa_Seeman, Jamie, Mike_Pluke, ayelet_s, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Debbie_Dahl, +44.289.442.aabb
Regrets
Chaohai_Ding, E.A._Draffan, John_Rochford, steve_lee
Chair
Lisa_Seeman
Scribe
mike, Mike_Pluke

Contents


<Lisa_Seeman> agenda: this

<JamieKnight> Hello

<Lisa_Seeman> Hello Jamie!

<JamieKnight> Hello Lisa_Seeman

<JamieKnight> ok

<JamieKnight> Hello Mike_Pluke

<Lisa_Seeman> scribe: mike

<JamieKnight> I'm hearing repeat on the audio?

<JamieKnight> have muted my end

<MichaelC> scribe: Mike_Pluke

review of agenda, new items,

<JamieKnight> thanks

<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/actions/open

<Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: lisa to write up new time lines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Write up new time lines [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-05-04].

<JamieKnight> Wiki would be preferred by me

<Lisa_Seeman> Jamie/ typing is fine

Mike Pluke said that he would try to complete his two outstanding actions by the next weekly meeting.

<JamieKnight> Sounds good

Tony will try to complete the attention and distraction item within the agreed time

<JamieKnight> Any thoughts about ID10 . Who / DSM regarding Autism?

Ayelet will continue to work on action 89

The remaining actions were reviewed.

Ayelet's email referring to out-of-date material in the user research document was raised.

<JamieKnight> i would say no.

<JamieKnight> I would say we enable communication, how its used is up to the user.

<JamieKnight> This is a problem for users without any issues.

There was a question on whether other dementia's that, for example, cause inapprorpriate behaviour should be covered.

<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Safety

<JamieKnight> I would say out of scope, as inappropriate behaviour happens from people with and without disabilities.

<JamieKnight> thanks :D

<JamieKnight> Okay, one mo

<JamieKnight> Let me type my reply :D

<ayelet_s> great

<JamieKnight> Sorry, no speech today, i had it, then it went.

<JamieKnight> Thanks

<ayelet_s> don't forget to take me off the speaker que :)

<Lisa_Seeman> Jamie as soon as you are ready

<JamieKnight> inapporepate behaviour is a matter of opinion. This is a huge issue in the autism world, expression (even when not ideal) is expression, if someone lands in prison due to bad behaviour, that is one of ways they get help.

<Tony_Doran> Jamie++

<JamieKnight> I think its a very grey area, its about who controls the editorial stuff. Eg, culture, religion etc.

<Tony_Doran> You have the right to be offensive.

Lisa mentioned a potential solution for inappropriate behaviour in the form of a social channel with a built-in delay.

+1

<Tony_Doran> If that is what you want. It is content production in a way.

<JamieKnight> For example, someone who i knew was in a religious care home, they considered his sexuality part of his "autism" and tried to "cure" it.

<neilmilliken> I agree with Jamie I think this is the thin end of the wedge]

<neilmilliken> we open the door to censorship

<ayelet_s> what if we just have a mechanism to alert people that their content may be viewed as inappropriate?

<JamieKnight> ayelet_s: i could see value in that.

<JamieKnight> ayelet_s: may be very hard to develop tho.

<Tony_Doran> Yep - they could chose to ignore and not be bothered again

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to talk about Web scope

<Tony_Doran> It wouldn't be easy to make agreed ;)

Lisa queries whether there could be an issue paper on this topic

Michael suggesting that this could be out of scope for W3C

<ddahl> It would be very difficult to know if conduct is appropriate or inappropriate in general, there are a lot of cultural differences, too

<JamieKnight> is the accommodation ways of asking for help? For example, my line manager often helps me draft emails. Eg, proactive requests rather than censorship?

<JamieKnight> More help by collaboration.

<ayelet_s> such things do exist in relation to terrorism, there might be a similar mechanism that could be made, maybe not

<ayelet_s> that's a great idea Jamie

<JamieKnight> MichaelC: probably not web scope imho.

Neil argues that it could be within W3C scope - even though he is sceptical about pursuing this work. Therefore may be OK to do an issue paper.

<JamieKnight> support to learn / contribute rather than a gateway to communities?

<JamieKnight> I have the same poison as neil, skeptical but open to the idea of a paper

<MichaelC> I can imagine a ¨technique¨ for documentation to help people with cognitive disabilities, and we say in the technique the sort of things that should be documented.

<JamieKnight> *position

<JamieKnight> can you repeat what you said please lisa

<neilmilliken> +1 for exploratory paper

<ayelet_s> +1

<richardschwerdtfeger> +1

<JamieKnight> +1 worth thinking about questions

+1

<Tony_Doran> +1 for the paper but again not sure what we can do here.

Consensus is for an issue paper.

<ayelet_s> I'm not sure I have the right skill sets and education, but if no one else volunteers then I will try and research it

<JamieKnight> ayelet_s: i would be happy to collaborate? Ive not done anything like this before tho, so i can't promise i will add velocity.

<ayelet_s> 4th, if you include finishing the citations, but it's all right

Ayelet and Jamie will collaborate with Debra to review/edit it

<ayelet_s> Jamie, I'd love to collaborate though I'd also be new at it.

<Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: Ayelet and Jamie will collaborate with Debra on issue paper to address help appropriate behaviors [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - And jamie will collaborate with debra on issue paper to address help appropriate behaviors [on Ayelet Seeman - due 2015-05-04].

<Lisa_Seeman> next item

SVG issues

<JamieKnight> +1 like that idea :D

<Lisa_Seeman> next item

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility

Richard is asking for any issues related to cognitive accessibility that can be taken into account when developing the SVG work

<jamieknight_> I have some idea's whats the best place to send them?

<Lisa_Seeman> here,

<jamieknight_> okies

<Lisa_Seeman> or on the list

<Lisa_Seeman> here is great

Potential cross-cutting issues with mobile and SVG

<jamieknight_> i have 3 items, is it good to mention them here?

<Lisa_Seeman> yes please do!

Questions such as what might need to be added to a chart, or navigation techniques to make things easier for people with cognitive issues.

<jamieknight_> To add to what lisa is saying, when a graphic contains multiple flows, the ability to hide nodes to just show one flow for example, so i can understand the process then see all the examples.

Lisa suggested some ideas such as highlighting parts of graph to co-ordinate with spoken description.

<jamieknight_> aka: "bility to remove node from complex diagrams to show just one example end to end (e.g. for flow diagrams with dozens of flows)"

<Lisa_Seeman> clear easy to use icons

Another suggestion, from Lisa, when making icons with SCG is there a way of saying who this icon is suited for?

<jamieknight_> for example, you could tag an icon as "literal" . "metaphor" for people with autism.

<neilmilliken> Like that jamie

<jamieknight_> "wash you hand in the toiled (metaphor)" - "wash you have before leaving the bathroom. Do not wash hands in the toilet basin"

<jamieknight_> *toiled = toilet

<Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: lisa to check that litral or mefor is in the page of suggested aria sematics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - Check that litral or mefor is in the page of suggested aria sematics [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-05-04].

<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Svg_comments

<jamieknight_> yes

<Lisa_Seeman> ok we will weight for you

<jamieknight_> Another one i find very difficult was a way of representing venn diagrams, e.g. when objects overlap the SVG tree does not have a way of saying items overlap, so for example, in a venn diagram its hard to know how much they overlap (a little or a lot)

<jamieknight_> Eg, "Autism and MMR" overlap 0%.... Autism and Obsession would overlap 50%

<jamieknight_> yes

<jamieknight_> very hard to guess at surface area

<jamieknight_> Also useful for blind users?

<jamieknight_> not sure how to achieve it. but would be super useful to know how much a venn diagram overlaps on hover for example.

<Lisa_Seeman> also needs to adress dyculcla

<jamieknight_> venn diagram has hidden meaning

Neil suggests that for dyscalculia the problem would be an understanding of the underlying concepts (e.g. the numbers). Charts as such can be problemantic.

<Lisa_Seeman> next item

<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Easy_Personalization

<jamieknight_> Thats a great idea!

Lisa introduced the Easy Personalization approach (described in the above link) - with examples.

<Lisa_Seeman> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2015Apr/0094.html

<Tony_Doran> I need to drop off.

<ayelet_s> my phone threw me off the call and I can't get back on

<jamieknight_> CSS styles would work, but they would need to be higher in the cascade IMHO

<Lisa_Seeman> OK WE ARE ENDING

<jamieknight_> okies, yay!

Revisit this topic next time. Could possibly be used to tweak what we are doing with JSON scripts.

<jamieknight_> Thanks, yay *blushies*

<jamieknight_> great thanks :D Much appreciated. Its very comfortable :D

<jamieknight_> Goodbye all, have a fab day!

<Lisa_Seeman> Thanks Jamie

<Lisa_Seeman> zakim: who is here

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Ayelet and Jamie will collaborate with Debra on issue paper to address help appropriate behaviors [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: lisa to check that litral or mefor is in the page of suggested aria sematics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: lisa to write up new time lines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-minutes.html#action01]
 
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Found Scribe: mike
Found Scribe: Mike_Pluke
Inferring ScribeNick: Mike_Pluke
Scribes: mike, Mike_Pluke
Default Present: +1.718.618.aaaa, Lisa_Seeman, Jamie, Mike_Pluke, ayelet_s, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Debbie_Dahl, +44.289.442.aabb
Present: +1.718.618.aaaa Lisa_Seeman Jamie Mike_Pluke ayelet_s Michael_Cooper Rich_Schwerdtfeger Debbie_Dahl +44.289.442.aabb
Regrets: Chaohai_Ding E.A._Draffan John_Rochford steve_lee
Got date from IRC log name: 27 Apr 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-minutes.html
People with action items: ayelet lisa

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